Ban Hilde

Ban Hilde.

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How many more good players have to come to the exact same conclusion after seeing it first hand ChaCha? Realyst, Shauno, and Krayzie have all come to basically the same conclusions as I have within the span of a few pages. I see them making so many of the same arguments I made in the Hilde Ban thread last time, before the mods came in and shut it down for no reason. Shame on them for that, as it's clearly a real issue that needs to be discussed.

No, we're not waiting half of the year until nationals are over to face this issue. The time is now, and if you're not clear yet that there is a problem that needs to be addressed, then you are just too far behind and need to catch up to where the rest of us are.

People need to admit that we do have a problem, and we need to find a solution. I would be fine with the solution of putting her on a heavy walled stage like Hall of the Warrior God or the cage. It's the full screen ringouts which make her too broken for me.
 
Ceirnian said:
Community input has already degraded this game enough, I don't really care to watch it devolve even further because some people are ejecting a torrent of water from their eyes.

Post with your real forum name or get the hell out. That's my stance and I won't even begin to take you seriously until you do.
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Says the Hilde player...
 
Fuzion said:
How many more good players have to come to the exact same conclusion after seeing it first hand ChaCha? Realyst, Shauno, and Krayzie have all come to basically the same conclusions as I have within the span of a few pages. I see them making so many of the same arguments I made in the Hilde Ban thread last time, before the mods came in and shut it down for no reason. Shame on them for that, as it's clearly a real issue that needs to be discussed.

No, we're not waiting half of the year until nationals are over to face this issue. The time is now, and if you're not clear yet that there is a problem that needs to be addressed, then you are just too far behind and need to catch up to where the rest of us are.

People need to admit that we do have a problem, and we need to find a solution. I would be fine with the solution of putting her on a heavy walled stage like Hall of the Warrior God or the cage. It's the full screen ringouts which make her too broken for me.
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MoTempest, Aris, KrayzieCD, BrianHates...

I'm going to have to agree there are too many great players saying she's off-the-wall to simply just ignore or say they're wrong and STFU. Some sort of compromise is better than no compromise. I also offered one in my other thread... anyway, peace.
 
She shouldnt be banned. She should be patched...

She is beatable, but it isnt fun. SC4 is next to perfect without her but i am sad to say i will not be playing untill she is fixed. She is completely broken and WILL ruin this game (Aleady has for me). It takes alot of skill to play her but everyone will eventually see what a terrible game sc4 is with her as she is. Ceirnian is a very smart and skilled player and coupled with Hilde the odds of consistently beating him is next to impossible. You may beat him once or twice or stop him from winning a tournament but the bottom line is that hilde is broken and will kill this game.

OOFMATIC: In my mind its not about if she is beatable at all. Its actually what you have to do to beat her, and what she has to do to adjust. This trade off is not fun. There are plenty of counter and anti strats for hilde, I agree. But if the hilde player lets say adjusts to JUST ONE of those strats. That usually means you lose a round. Also, People banning characters is deffinatly not what is killing sc4. There are tons of top level players in socal that think this game is complete garbage because of that character and wont touch it.

Chiapet: I am not BAN HILDE'. Its probably someone from norcal actually.

Again, To be clear.

She is broken but beatable.
She shouldnt and wont be banned.
This game wont be played by anyone who wants to have fun untill she is fixed.

Beating her is a chore. Id rather mow the lawn, AKA play another game...
 
Okay, let me wade into this:

Hilde is complete bullshit. Brokebrokebrokebrokebroke. I agree with the logic of all of the arguments against her on a fundamental level. That said, I do well against Cedric. There are strategies you can employ to give yourself a shot. I am incredibly reticent to side with anyone asking for bans or rule changes at this point in time because, frankly, people aren't fighting against her properly. I watched people beat themselves this weekend more than I watched Cedric do anything spectacular. He's good. He's smart. He let those bums do all of the work for him. As such, it's really hard to be sympathetic.

Bottom line: we shouldn't do anything...yet. Channel the anger into productively studying Hilde and trying to figure out ways to maximize your chances of winning. Any argument for banning coming from people who aren't top-notch anti-Hilde players (or Hilde players themselves) cannot by definition be compelling.

In conclusion, I hope all of you die alone and in great pain.
 
Hates said:
Okay, let me wade into this:

Hilde is complete bullshit. Brokebrokebrokebrokebroke. I agree with the logic of all of the arguments against her on a fundamental level. That said, I do well against Cedric. There are strategies you can employ to give yourself a shot. I am incredibly reticent to side with anyone asking for bans or rule changes at this point in time because, frankly, people aren't fighting against her properly. I watched people beat themselves this weekend more than I watched Cedric do anything spectacular. He's good. He's smart. He let those bums do all of the work for him. As such, it's really hard to be sympathetic.

Bottom line: we shouldn't do anything...yet. Channel the anger into productively studying Hilde and trying to figure out ways to maximize your chances of winning. Any argument for banning coming from people who aren't top-notch anti-Hilde players (or Hilde players themselves) cannot by definition be compelling.
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Yes, there are ways around her, playing smart and being on a good axis where the chance of ring-outs are slim. But the axis relies on luckily getting a stage with a wall or a big stage, and playing smart relies on what Aris described above as not-too-fun gameplay. It was likely not fun for a lot of people to play or watch.

And I agree about not doing anything yet. This thread is for discussion on what to do in the event that she isn't patched, and nothing should be implemented before Nationals to be fair to the competitors.

In the meantime, Hates has got it right. This is a signal to step up your anti-Hilde practice if you haven't already.
 
I have a Hilde player whom I fight against constantly, I also have played many more Hilde's, many of the names already discussed. The conclusion I came to was:

- I have to be careful approaching her Take the proper opportunities to rush her down
- play a heavy throw-laiden mind game (so she has to anticipate and crouch or do a TC move, because of charging)
- use a lot of moves that force crouch on block (limiting her options and forcing her to time a charge release for easy GI)
- Counter pick if the player adapts to your initial tactics. My Rock and Mina have a good ratio against Hilde, limiting her, and playing a ranged game where her backstep/whiff punish can't always save her. Or just throw out a character I know the player to be weak against (when did we stop doing this?). Sometimes you just have to learn to play the player, not the character.

Yea, she gets her BS Ring out victories at times (ok...a lot) against me off a random whiff or the TC/GI luckily timed against a high I throw out, but you know what? So does Kilik, so does Asta, so does Nightmare. The fact that Hilde has 'the easiest' time doing it, is quite aggravating, but if you get rid of her, it's just gonna be a lot more Kilik, Asta and whoever else has the best options to an easy victory. It doesn't begin or end with Hilde. A lot of characters have good shit, what is making you angry is that hers is so 'brainless'. You and I both know you can deal with it better.

ALL I AM ASKING, is that we give it a little more time. The game isn't going anywhere, and neither is this community, those who 'rage quit' from this arguing, will come back after a patch or any other number of things going down. I don't think we have much to lose from letting Hilde stay, everyone really scrutinizes counters and ways to deal with her, and AFTER some more major tournaments go down, see if she really is degenerating the skill level and variety in this game. I don't think she deserves it yet, and all I go off is I am capable of beating her, and I'm not as good as a lot of the names floating around arguing here.

cha cha
 
Shauno and KrayzieCD have already said essentially what I was going to say.

However, I'm going to go ahead and call it now. After Nationals, the Soul Calibur IV scene is going to be dead. At this point, it's really too late for Hilde to be banned before Nationals. So one of two things is going to happen. Hilde is going to win Nationals, get banned, and then all of the Hilde players and people like OOFMATIC who are against banning things are going to quit...

Or Hilde is going to win Nationals, not get banned, and everyone else who is against one mistake being guaranteed round loss is going to quit. I know of at least four players here in Arizona who are likely to quit if Hilde doesn't get banned at some point down the road. I know of several 2d players who were starting to learn SC4, watched me do the doom combo to someone, asked "Is that tournament legal?" and then said "Fuck this game, I'm sticking to 2d" when I told them "Yes". We're talking 2d players who are fine with playing MvC2 and doing Magneto or Iron Man infinites to people, and even they're saying that Hilde's RO combo is bullshit and makes the game not worth playing for them.

Like Shauno said, in 70% of circumstances her doom combo is an infinite. It kills the opponent from full to dead, with nothing they can do to escape it. There are numerous times where Lobo has been whooping my ass and makes one minor mistake and I win. Sometimes it's as minor as jumping over a 1K or 2A, landing, and hitting him with C3B, B+K, C2BB, C2AA to ringout backwards.

The risk/reward is just far too skewed in her favor. Even though it's beatable, it completely kills almost all of the offensive options in the game. If you step, C3A C2BB C2AA will ringout. If you duck, C3B 44K C2BB C3A C2BB C2AA will ringout. If you whiff a GI, C3B 44K C2BB C3A C2BB C2AA will ringout. If you whiff a throw, FC C2B 44K C2BB C3A C2BB C2AA will ringout. If she only had the one doom combo off of one launcher, it wouldn't be nearly as much of a problem. Instead, though, Hilde can ring you out from almost anywhere off of one correct guess.

I think Rigel's solution of making certain stages mandatory when playing Hilde is probably the best. Otherwise, I know this community is simply going to sit on the fence until after Nationals, but as I stated earlier, it's already my opinion that the major life cycle of the game is probably over by that point.
 
I have fun against other characters. You know, the ones comprising the "near perfect game". I swear someone called it that...
 
really cha cha??kililk and asta.........didnt know asta was winning tourny after tourny lol

wow alot of respectable players are coming out against this and i think it might be for a good reason. But unfortunately like aris said she shouldnt be banned ....... we need to pray for a patch!!!!! Good thing south jersey was going on a hiatus from this game anyway!!! LOL Its unfortunate this game had such potential and now so many legit players are discouraged.......you guys think bothering namco for a patch will actually do something??? Is that what happened with tekken 5.0?? Did the tekken community complain about steve and that was partially why 5.1 was made??
 
I was going to say something else, but.

...

I only have one thing to say as of yet.

...

How are the guys in the Dominican Republic dealing with this?
 
With the T4 Jin comparisons, I'm reminded that the team in charge of SC4 were also in charge of T4. Oh the irony.

Well, I still stand by my mentality of if you hate the rules, stop playing. If Hilde does turn out to be another T4 Jin, so be it. People will stop playing SCIV and Namco will get even more bad rep. Namco deserves the bad rep in the FG community as they love fucking up on their two biggest fighters. They won't get their act together if the community does the work THEY are suppose to do themselves.
 
Ceirnian said:
...Funny how 3 characters that are good at playing against Hilde (Yoda / Algol / Vader in some tournaments) are banned.
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the fuckin truth.

don't ban hilde. she's still an awesome character. just be able to counterpick her with a character, *cough* yoda, what? /*cough*, or counterpick her with a stage.

so is sc4 gonna be at evo or not is the fucking question of the day.
 
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