Raphael General Discussion / Q&A

I don't think the problem is the a lacking reward after a successful B+K, the problem is that the window activates too damn late.

The fact that its not a aGI (like cervantes' B+K) means there is always a chance of teleporting into the 2nd hit is already a risk. 38 damage into prep entry, or a 3(B) combo/side or back grab mixup, or a CE would be pretty good if B+K activated on frame 3 instead of frame 10.
 
Well riddle me this: Is B+K better or worse than the old A+K4?
I'm thinking 'better'.

I can confirm one instance of 4A+B not triggering when GI activates on an attack that is not TJ. Natsu as I recall.
 
Mandritti said:
Well riddle me this: Is B+K better or worse than the old A+K4?
I'm thinking 'better'.
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Whats the point of comparing a move in SC5 to one of the least useful moves in SC4? Your point is "it could be worse" kinda expresses the general design direction Raph has.
 
Mandritti said:
Well riddle me this: Is B+K better or worse than the old A+K4?
I'm thinking 'better'.

I can confirm one instance of 4A+B not triggering when GI activates on an attack that is not TJ. Natsu as I recall.
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The issue with B+K and his Auto Evades historically is that in many cases doing a TC, TJ, or QS would have been a better and more reliable choice in like 75% of situations. By the end of SC2 AE became a liability, it didn't get much better in 3 and in 4 everything AE went to hell.

It is horseshit that you can't B+K WS anymore (you could WS AE's in SC2 con.) and it activates after ten fucking frames. Ten frames Namco......unbelievable. They've done near everything they could to limit its use and application as an aGI'ish move.
 
I remember when he had that super-long sword-twirling AE that you could only do after certain moves, they should bring that back. It had like 80 active frames lol
 
First of all, agree with what Bojack said. His AEs were not superior options compared to built-in or manual evades most of the time, though successfully AEing a slow low horizontal in SC3 gave a nice NC for 80 dmg.

Gojira said:
I remember when he had that super-long sword-twirling AE that you could only do after certain moves, they should bring that back. It had like 80 active frames lol
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Are you talking about Prep sidestep??

Reptile said:
I actually like B+K. It's dazzingly stylish evil vampire style.
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Same here, but they need to give it a wider frame window, maybe buff the autoattack damage, and maybe give directional inputs to teleport behind and away from the opponent (spacing/retreat).
 
Fendante said:
First of all, agree with what Bojack said. His AEs were not superior options compared to built-in or manual evades most of the time, though successfully AEing a slow low horizontal in SC3 gave a nice NC for 80 dmg.



Are you talking about Prep sidestep??
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No, after some moves (such as A+B A, IIRC) you can B+K and it'll roll the AE 5 times with this one input, it was neat.
 
Gojira said:
I remember when he had that super-long sword-twirling AE that you could only do after certain moves, they should bring that back. It had like 80 active frames lol
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This and you could buffer A+K back into another A+K and they activated from frame one. I loved using AE after weapon clashes because of this or wrecking people's strings with it. Now? Not so much.

Slade said:
Verticals and thrusts. The window is really shitty and all you get is a guaranteed 6BB/CE or a mixup between mid and backthrow.
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CE guaranteed after B+K? Really?
 
The input was A+B,B+K (hidden). A+BA could not follow into it. There is another move that triggers the same (SP), which I didn't discover while I played the game. What was it?
Also, A+KA+K was a distinct input; A+K didn't chain into itself more than that.

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As I see it, you basically have to CE after B+K in this game to look like a threat. What're you gonna do that's not that? 22B / 11K? Yeah no. You can try to exploit the camera and make the opponent "recover" right into BT again; I think I get it consistently (spot when it will work and do it); I don't know if that is too gimmicky to have self-respect.

Even if your opponent is being free to Prep I absolutely hate the situation off 6B(B).
 
Vigo said:
Yes it is guaranteed. The damage is actually quite nice.

Sadly the terrible window and not being able to evade strings turn this move into a glorified taunt.
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It has uses, they're just remote and highly specific (Mitsu doing his giant jump B for example).

Mandritti said:
The input was A+B,B+K (hidden). A+BA could not follow into it. There is another move that triggers the same (SP), which I didn't discover while I played the game. What was it?
Also, A+KA+K was a distinct input; A+K didn't chain into itself more than that.
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I think it also worked off of 66A and 88B but not 22K IIRC.
 
You guys mean to tell me that for all the crap Raph gets ducked, his double High doesn't whiff on Pat 66B, Nighty 22B? Next you'll be telling me Raph can do damage to Alpha Pat.
 
Mandritti said:
You guys mean to tell me that for all the crap Raph gets ducked, his double High doesn't whiff on Pat 66B, Nighty 22B? Next you'll be telling me Raph can do damage to Alpha Pat.
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I assume you are talking about the VE auto-attack. If that's the case, then I will mention that it is still mid high like in SC4. Although I am quite befuddled by the fact that it is not mid mid, I will take a mid high rather than a high high VE A in SC3, which always failed against Mitsu and Nighty's 22Bs. As long as Raph's VE attack connects on the first hit, he is good to go.
 
moves like apat's twister and 22B will crouch under the first hit of the B+A auto attack.
 
WuHT said:
moves like apat's twister and 22B will crouch under the first hit of the B+A auto attack.
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Oh thanks for correcting me. (Not to be a know it all...but it's B+K right??) Hmm so basically super tech crouching moves. Darn...guess blocking is the only way, unless one could discourage use of those moves somehow.

Edit: My apologies Mandritti.
 
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