α Patroklos General Discussion/ Q&A

RezonanceX said:
hey guys,
being a complete noob at aPat I cant seem to pull off the twister (2143aB) right after 8A+B B, instead I do a completely different move despite doing the correct input. Is there anyway to do this without having to mess up?
Also how do you pull off twisters consistently in actual matches? I can do them fine in training mode but when
it comes to real games i always do FC a, WS a , etc...
Any kind of help is appreciated thanks.
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I'm completely late, but I'm guessing that the input you're getting is either 2a or FC3A+B.

For Anyone Having Problems Like This: Try going into practice mode with the input setting on and practicing twister. When you get the incorrect input, simply stop and look at what you're pressing in the input list (and thus where you're messing off). It may be something as simple as you're going to fast (and pressing things simultaneously rather than fluidly) or it may be something like you're missing an input completely. If you do this, I guarantee it should help with your efficiency.

Regardless of if You're Playing on Pad or Stick: Remember, for JFT, you must press both button inputs individually (in other words, you cannot have a pressed still while you are sliding to b). This is why, perhaps, if you play on Xbox and PS3, you probably have an easier time doing JFT (at least the button part)--because the buttons are rounder and further spaced apart on most controllers.

Tips for Doing JFT Twister On Pad: What I like to do is feather my fingers over the buttons. It's rather hard to explain but you shouldn't be pressing down so much as you are pressing across. An exercise you can do for that sensitivity is to practice twister by doing twister and letting go of all the pressure you're applying with your left hand except from holding it up; in other words, you should be pressing a and letting go of 3 almost simultaneously (you shouldn't be pressing 3 or the d-pad at all when you hit b).

Your accuracy and precision doesn't matter so much as getting a feel for it. Once you can do that, can back and practice while using your left hand as you would (probably holding 3 the whole way through and applying downward as well as upward force to the controller).

Tips for Doing JFT On Stick: A technique a friend showed me is to, if you're having problems with the slide input, run you finger(s) over the buttons almost as if you're striking a match with your fingertip(s). I just tap them really fast.
 
I'm totally new to aPat, so I'm probably being dumb, but what does "fastest input" for JF twister mean? It feels like you input 2143 as fast as you can, but that misconception was obviously dispelled two posts ago. So if it's just the 3aB, is it the aB part that has to be fast? What's the window like and can you do it if you hold the 3 first or is the fast part the whole 3aB?

Also, I'm disproportionately angry that there's no little cute aPat icon.
 
The fastest part (if I remember right) is the aB, but often people do it too fast or for whatever reason they come out with the wrong move, so just go slowly at first then work your way up to it. It's probably the best way to do it.

If you sit in a crouch and hold 3, and then do aB you can still get JF Twister which leads me to believe that it is just the aB part.
 
lol love the community spirit 3 responses within 24 hrs or so.
aB needs to fast and clean,
-littl tip, take into account the texture of the finger or thumb you are using. Tips of gloves work well as it makes sliding easier, should be one swift motion, just slightly faster as if you were trying to a :2::3::6: input.
 
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Thank you so much for all of the help!

When you do the input, can your finger still be on A while you press B or does it have to be completely separate?
 
Hi, new player here testing some stuff around! Coming from Tekken I was thinking about JF T in the same way as EWGF. However I quickly found out that it's not at all about the directional input combined with the button input when opting for the JF, but it basically only boils down to having a one frame maximum between a and B. What I mean by this is, it's not required to think about it like "frame 1 is 3a, frame 2 is B". Frame 1 could just as well be 3 alone, frame 2 is 3a, and frame 3 is 3B.

This can be tested and proven by simply going into FC, holding 3 for five seconds, then inputing a:B while just never leting go of 3. So, if any other Tekken player is having your head spinning around JFT like I had, I hope I've cleared some stuff up. Basically you have a lot of time going 214~3, and you can hold 3 not inputing anything else as long as the QCB stance is not completed which means back to standing.

Anyway... I also have a question. As I'm new to this character and basically the game, I've found that one thing I'm having a trouble with is chasing down turtles and back steppers. This is especially true when I'm playing as apat. Do you guys have any tips for me on how to get a good mindset around this? What's the optimal ways with apat to "go in" when your opponent is constantly either guarding or moving away from you while focusing a lot on wiff punishment?
 
guice said:
Anyway... I also have a question. As I'm new to this character and basically the game, I've found that one thing I'm having a trouble with is chasing down turtles and back steppers. This is especially true when I'm playing as apat. Do you guys have any tips for me on how to get a good mindset around this? What's the optimal ways with apat to "go in" when your opponent is constantly either guarding or moving away from you while focusing a lot on wiff punishment?
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Don't, I think. It might make you do something silly and lose a bit of life. Just stay at the edge and gain meter by not blocking. :P

But if you must, wave-dash in, bearing in mind you can block at any time with 236a_b_k~G.

Other stuff: RoH A, bA, and 33B. Might want to use RoH A mostly because it has the fastest recovery out of the three and gives you a throw/BT B+K mix-up on hit.
 
guice said:
Anyway... I also have a question. As I'm new to this character and basically the game, I've found that one thing I'm having a trouble with is chasing down turtles and back steppers. This is especially true when I'm playing as apat. Do you guys have any tips for me on how to get a good mindset around this? What's the optimal ways with apat to "go in" when your opponent is constantly either guarding or moving away from you while focusing a lot on wiff punishment?
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You should not have very much trouble dealing with backstep at all with aPat, as he has arguably the best backstep kill move in the game with 2363B. It's one of the only moves that can even catch Nightmare's backstep fairly consistently from mid range. Not to mention this is my personal pick for best move in the game, and is really one of the only approaching moves you need with alpha. Huge range, 17 frames, launches on normal hit, stuns on counter hit, completely safe, catches roll...the only problem with this move is that it's super linear. Doesn't track either direction, but that's ok. Ideal whiff punish move since it can be done from sidestep and neutral and is so fast. There's really no excuse to not spam this move like a motherfucker as long as you don't think they will sidestep. If overused, it can be JGed though, and it is unsafe in that case, but this move alone is why I play Alpha. To mix it up you can also use 66A (or 33A because it stuns on CH which you can combo with CE which 66A doesn't), 66B, and 8A+B A from really long range.

As for opponents who guard a lot, just checking them with 33Bs discourages them from doing too much other than blocking. In which case you can just run basic close game mixup, like 66B and throws. Throw a lot, because all of Alphas throws hit like a truck.
 
aPat's offense does suffer a bit against characters with good pokes (Mits, Pyrrha, oPyr). Still, you shouldn't run into too many of those players who understand how to shut that down. When you do, the best remedy is to play lame right back with them as, honestly, most of their pokes will beat more of his options than his will theirs.

Like Logan said, against other characters, it should be hard for them to deal with your offense and making an approach.

But, for advice, my mindset in SC4 (where there was step G and Sets did even less damage) was that, if they're lookin for 33b, it gives you enough room to get closer than a range where they can space out 33b. Eventually, if they're playing passively, they open themselves up to throws or counterhits. On top of that, though, 33b has enough range where you can threaten it and force whiffs or certain reactions without even having to use it.

It goes without saying, you want your opponent to either get hit by 33b/66b or block it; even if they block it, JG will beat most fast options, 2a will beat most slow options or reset/beat a passive approach, and backstepping cleanly will effectively reset you to neutral. I also use aa against characters like Beta Pat who can't exactly just throw out a TC attack without the fear of it being blocked.
 
Thanks a lot! I think my problems really boils down to two things; my spacing as apat has been subpar, and I've been having a more 'traditional' mindset towards 33b. Basically I've been thinking to myself that "33b hit = good, 33b blocked = bad", while really (if I understand you guys correctly) the only times I really lose when throwing it out is if I whiff or get beaten by another move. Which then again turns us back to stated issues of spacing.

Finally, as a new guy to the game and the forums, I must say I've never met a more friendly and helpful community. Evereywhere I go I get huge help from you guys, thank you :)

Oh, and merry christmas!
 
That sounds about right. It'll probably take some time getting used to what you can do after a blocked 33b but the way aPat plays makes it a matter of general situations rather than specific ones
 
Okay, some time have passed and I'm doing a lot better.

I still opt for double JFT combos only, even after for example CH 33b. I'm not comfortable with my execution just yet to start doing 2143b:b combos, mainly because I'm having trouble visually confirming for example when 33b hits on CH. It's just so much easier to always go for JFT. Do you guys think this is a reasonable way to think, or is it time to start dropping combos in order to eventually learn how to visually confirm and do the harder stuff?

Another thing I'm working on is his throw game, which of course is insanely good. Mainly I think it's good because the 236-motion gives him such a good throw reach, and of course because of raw damage output. Now I'm having some trouble however with applying his command grab, because the reach isn't really that great. Do you guys have any particular setups or scenarios where you think the grab fits in perfectly? Like, for example I find it extremely effective after catching a close step with 3a, which places apat very close to the opponent.
 
guice said:
Do you guys think this is a reasonable way to think, or is it time to start dropping combos in order to eventually learn how to visually confirm and do the harder stuff?
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It's fine if you can get double twister reliably. Only thing is FC 3B BE ~ RoH B ~ twister is easier to execute that double twister and gives more damage (once you get the hang of FC 3B after CH 33B, although lower clean hit chance). Just sit in training mode with CH set to random and you'll get the hang of it soon (in fact, that's harder than in typical matches because you can actually tell if it will hit CH most times against an actual opponent due to movement). Also try to confirm NH 33B ~ bA. It's pretty useful.
 
Well it combos with JFT at a wall or ring edge for most characters (for small characters it will only work at some angles). 4K and 11K are a low and mid tech trap that cover people who ukemi in this situation (preferable 4K, although 11K will work. 11A works here but is punishable.) or sleepers (11K).
 
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