Alpha Pat's top 10 moves

Besides Wall Splats and ROs are there any tech traps or true follow ups to 2362_22_88 BA?
 
Actually - yes.
8A+BB is a forceblock - if they do anything other than stand they eat a relaunch.
Because of this, you get a mindgame between relaunches and high damage 50/50s.

Good oki off of that move.
 
Actually - yes.
8A+BB is a forceblock - if they do anything other than stand they eat a relaunch.
Because of this, you get a mindgame between relaunches and high damage 50/50s.

Good oki off of that move.

What do you mean 'you get a mindgame between relaunches and high damage 50/50s'?
Are you saying the pin down from the force block puts you in 50/50 position or the relaunch combo on staying down?

When I do that move I end up on the Defensive on blockers like Natsu and Nightmare b/c of their arsenal or getting thrown immediately.
 
I mean they have a 50/50 between staying down and being relaunched for 55 damage, or immediately getting up into guard, which risks a throw/power mid mixup for around 100 damage.
 
I mean they have a 50/50 between staying down and being relaunched for 55 damage, or immediately getting up into guard, which risks a throw/power mid mixup for around 100 damage.

So the force block does not give you advantage ? I thought I was playing my opponents wrong. The 50/50 is on the lay down or get up. So if you don't do the 8 A+B B you have a mix up as they rise. But there isn't a 50/50 after the force block? Correct!
 
Yes, but you are missing the point: You shouldn't view the opponent blocking a force block as leading into anything, save GC damage - those are the exceptions. You should view a force block as a situation where you kill them for trying to or not trying to defend the forceblock correctly. That is the mixup - not after they block it.

Eg with Alpha 22BA:
If they try to defend the forceblock:
Throws/1A: A: A
46 - 103 dmg.

If they guess throws but wakeup to not risk an 8A+BB relaunch:
Power Mid.
Around 100 dmg.

If they stay down to avoid the above mixups:
8A+BB 2A BE 22BA situation reset.
75 dmg.
 
Yes, but you are missing the point: You shouldn't view the opponent blocking a force block as leading into anything, save GC damage - those are the exceptions. You should view a force block as a situation where you kill them for trying to or not trying to defend the forceblock correctly. That is the mixup - not after they block it.

Eg with Alpha 22BA:
If they try to defend the forceblock:
Throws/1A: A: A
46 - 103 dmg.

If they guess throws but wakeup to not risk an 8A+BB relaunch:
Power Mid.
Around 100 dmg.

If they stay down to avoid the above mixups:
8A+BB 2A BE 22BA situation reset.
75 dmg.


Thanks. I understand the Mix up potential. I even use 2B+K to control rollers and start the frame trap mind game.

I got your point about the mix up not being after the force block. But then you wrote:

Eg with Alpha 22BA:
If they try to defend the forceblock:
Throws/1A: A: A
46 - 103 dmg.

What do you mean 'If they try to defend the forceblock '? You just said there is no mix up by making them defend the forceblock. Do you mean that defending the relaunch causes them to stand leading to
Throws/1A: A: A
46 - 103 dmg.

What do you mean by 'You should view a force block as a situation where you kill them for trying to or not trying to defend the forceblock correctly' ?

I think we are having a semantics issue.
 
I mean that the situation cannot be identified and handled on reactions - the opponent knows that you have a forceblock here, if they think you will use it, they will wakeup standing, meaning you can throw them or 1AAA them.

A forceblock mid will hit the opponent in one of three ways:
Grounded hit, hit (crouching opponent) or blocked (standing opponent).
What you're looking for is moves that mix up, which deal more damage in each specific state
ie with alpha - throws kill standing opponent
mids kill crouching opponent
8A+BB kills grounded opponent.
 
I mean that the situation cannot be identified and handled on reactions - the opponent knows that you have a forceblock here, if they think you will use it, they will wakeup standing, meaning you can throw them or 1AAA them.

Understood! I use my B+K combo in the mix up alot though especially in the early rounds or when there is no meter. It also builds meter rapidly and its range is phenomenal . I can't tell you the amount of time people have screamed at the screen when that move pull them from far away. LOL! But to each his own. I like to preserve meter because the threat of a 2A CE ( especially after a 2B+K knockdown) changes the way later rounds flow.
 
B+K isn't something I'd recommend due to it being unsafe, but 33B and 66B are good meterless safe launchers and are both faster.
 
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B+K isn't something I'd recommend due to it being unsafe, but 33B and 66B are good meterless safe launchers and are both faster.

Depending on opponent (notably DNS A/B and Cervy aB) , distance used (especially at max range) and block stun make B+K usually safe. Definitely effective after 2 consecutive 1AAAs . The damage and the Oki that ensues the risk/reward is overshadows that. 66B without meter can't compare damage-wise (68 vs 82) though its safer (-8 vs -14). 236B combo without meter also can not compare in damage ( 58 vs 82) and only slightly safer (-11 vs -14). Like I said its mainly for early rounds or mindgames late.
 
I think the attitude of "unsafe" = "unusable" is silly. Around B+K in particular, that is just straight up more meterless damage for your efforts than a 33B. If the returns in terms of damage and positioning were comparable, then I'd gladly hear the "unsafe" argument. As it stands, though, it's a calculated risk; the payoff is worth it sometimes. Particularly with your back to the wall, B+K 62B 33A+B is such a juicy choice.
 
-14 is very negligable I think. unless you're spamming b+k, I don't see a problem in using it here and there. only a few characters can punish it hard anyway.
 
Unsafe does not mean unusable but its 80 damage at i26 and linear.
Bearing in mind you can do 100 at i17 and safe. Its a killer reverse RO tool, but sakura fury just isn't worth it anymore, it was in SCIV though. =/
 
Unsafe does not mean unusable but its 80 damage at i26 and linear.
Bearing in mind you can do 100 at i17 and safe. Its a killer reverse RO tool, but sakura fury just isn't worth it anymore, it was in SCIV though. =/

Actually its i24 and used when the enemy is pinned down just as you described (after 22BA) so linear is irrelevant. Or use it after your side step or opponent's whiff .Besides there are no meterless 100dmg for 236~3B at the beginning of matches like I describe when I use B+K.
 
Actually, B+K has a hidden weakness we haven't really spoke about: the fact that you have to buffer the whole movement means that, on block, you're likely to do another B+K or 66A+B immediately afterwards, when you're already at -14. This means that they can either AA or BB punish you, or CH fish for a huge punish on block. It's not really easy to hit confirm the B+K string, and because of the way the buffer system works you can end up really exposing yourself.

The same thing applies to a (botched) 1A series on block. If you screwed up the second A, your third A will buffer as a new 1A, and you can get reemed with a CH punish.
 
Actually, B+K has a hidden weakness we haven't really spoke about: the fact that you have to buffer the whole movement means that, on block, you're like to do another B+K or 66A+B immediately afterwards, when you're already at -14. This means that they can either AA or BB punish you, or CH fish for a huge punish on block. It's not really easy to hit confirm the B+K string, and because of the way the buffer system works you can end up really exposing yourself.

OK I've done some testing, and if you buffer the whole thing fast enough, it will not come out on block and still come out on hit. You have to input the whole thing before the first B+K animation finishes. Try it with recorded command.

 
Yeah a super fast buffer might avoid this, and I've had so-so results with trying to hit-confirm (buffer B+K 62B, confirm 44B+K), though sometimes that results in dropping the third hit.

Also, I figured out the issue with this string vs. Viola: The third hit whiffs if you started the string from her left side. That should definitely get a patch >_<.

P.S. Dragonfall - You coming to Toryuken? I've been wanting to get to MTL to play you guys, but my life has been conspiring against me.
 
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