Anti-Astaroth

BatousaiNori

BatousaiNori

[10] Knight
So yeah, as a Cervantes player, this it the only char I'm having problems w/. He completely shuts down 2A+B and 1K, which are his 2 best weapons outside of iGDR, so long story short, having problems against him. Put it this way: If you are an Asta player and lose to a Cervantes, you fucked up somewhere.

So which char really gives Asta problems? How does Mitsu do against him? He seems to have a hard time getting in on people, so I figured I'd post here

All asta experts weigh in on this:)
 
I wouldn't say Mitsu is one of Asta's worst matchups, its more a 5/5 IMO. Sophitia and Taki give me more trouble, and X can be a problem too. X's 44B can really hurt Asta up close as you can use it to punish 'Stroth in throw situations which is where Asta ideally wants to be.
 
I seriously doubt cervantes vs asta is that bad, you probably just need to approach it differently. Why do you say he shuts down 2A+B and 1K?

Astaroth is weak against fast moves with good pushback and recovery on block because it prevents him from applying solid mixups. Unless he is in throw range he's a bit weak against step as well.
 
Cervy 2A+B,1A and 1K yield free crouch throw attempts on block iirc. Blocked iGDR's yield inescapable Back Throws, granted Cervy shouldn't be throwing iGDR out recklessly, but it happens. It certainly isn't one of Cervy's better match ups, I also play Cervy vs. Asta a lot, and I find it an uphill battle.
 
DSBlackfox said:
Cervy 2A+B,1A and 1K yield free crouch throw attempts on block iirc. Blocked iGDR's yield inescapable Back Throws, granted Cervy shouldn't be throwing iGDR out recklessly, but it happens. It certainly isn't one of Cervy's better match ups, I also play Cervy vs. Asta a lot, and I find it an uphill battle.
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Damn, you beat me to it. So yeah, the crouch throw does way too much damage and I'm often scared to throw out 1K/2A+B unless I know it'll hit. I have advantage on hit w/AA and if Asta attacks, 2A+B is CH, but if he just blocks after AA, I have to guess between the crouch death grabs. Shit's dumb.

Asta seems like he can keep people out though? Do sisters REALLY still give him problems, cause honestly, it doesn't seem like it. Only bad matchup I see for Asta so far (hell this is everybody's matchup it looks like) is Taki?
 
Tiamat said:
you really don't have any alternative mid pokes you can use that are safer?
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It's not that it's "unsafe", it's the fact they both leave me in crouch. 1K leaves me in crouch for excellent mixups and on block, sisters get 236B, but not many other chars get to punish it really good. Asta gets a crouch throw mixup, which sucks balls. 2A+B leaves me in crouch also. 3B isn't bad, but think of it this way:

If you are an asta and you know the ONLY low the Pirate is gonna do is 2k, would you EVER duck? So from there, where is my mixup? Throws? Not good enough to win 6 rounds against somebody good IMO. Asta isn't really anti-cervy, but it's a gigantic uphill battle.
 
People say a lot about sophie and Cass, but I could care less...I have almost no problem with the sisters. Sophie...usually I scare players with random crouch grabs.

My asta is different from the normal, because I barely get close enough for command grabs...Mostly I would say Taki, setsuka, Raphael, and Amy give me problems.
 
Why you acting like Cervy 1K being unsafe vs Asta is some kinda big deal? It's not just sisters that can hurt him bad for blocking it, nightmare, or even another cervy with good execution can hurt him as well. Regardless, it's one of the best lows in the game for being + on hit and fast, so if you stop using it just because it's unsafe, that's your problem.

the safety of the mids you are using to mixup with said low move is WAY more important
 
yes, lots of characters can punish unsafe lows on block, but having to deal with a 65+ damage throw mixup that can RO you to the front and back is no laughing matter. Of course, no one is going to block every low, but if 1K is all you have for lows, i'm really not inclined to duck, even if it is + on hit, i'll just stand and guard.

If I'm playing Cervy, I'll use 3A+B,6K,4B,3B and 6BB_6B to mix mid/low more safely.
 
Tiamat: If you are Cervantes in a tournament against Asta, I guarantee you will be very cautious going low w/1k. You might use 2k a lot, and it will hit because not a single Asta will duck just cause of 2K. However, once he starts seeing 1K coming, better hope it's not blocked and from there, better guess right between A and B cause it's WAY too much damage to guess wrong on. So again, the mids aren't the problems like I said, I can win w/out 2A+B, but the fact I can barely go low hurts my 50/50. Nearly the entire cast fears 1k from Cervantes, which makes them duck.

This is the only char that REALLY gives Cervantes problems, can't seem to find a way around it.
 
When i play Astaroth, im more scared of his Throws than anything else, so i try to keep him out of Throw Range if possible. 3A+B works fine.

For the Lows:

If you keep him at the right Distance, 11AA is an option to make him duck.

It has Range, you can use a Mixup, and he cant even punish you properly. From close Range he gets a 6K for 18 Damage, from Far Range 11A is safe against Astaroths 6K. He could also use 66B, but it has to be buffered quite fast and when he starts to punish your 11A with 66B you can go for 11AA.

Its a solid Mixup, your opponent has risks too, if he tries to punish your 11A he could eat 11AA, which is more than 50 Damage if just the second hits connects.

So you can Mixup:

11A~Throw
11AA~into Combo or 11AA into instant Command Throw when he gets up
11A~3A+B
11AB

And additional it covers Full step, which gives guaranteed 70 Damage.

I dont say its the ne plus ultra, but you could give it a try if you dont like to use 1K. Bear in Mind, he gets a free Bullrush for 11AA, so mix it well with single ones etc etc.

Asta is a tough opponent, he is way better than people thought at the beginning. Bullrush, Throws, 1B and a few more---> Enough to win.


EDIT: Do your Asta opponents duck Throws consistently? If not, try iCT to make them duck, it can be done way faster than i thought at the beginning, almost no difference to a normal Throw. Just needs some Practice.
 
hmm let me see here wel im a nightmare player and i useally crush asta with ease however i used to be cerv player for awhile best way as cerv to fuck asta is not to use any tele moves those will useally get you killed very quick im not a really great player so giving advice is gonna sound strange i use trip alot with forawrd backward A useing the guren moves helps to asta pretty big guy so i useally hit him very well ahh yea the rapid stab works great to :)
 
Tiamat said:
Nori: You do not have to make the opponent duck to win the match.
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If somebody doesn't duck against you, 99% of the time, you are going to have a hard time winning. Unless the person you are playing constantly whiffs and uses mostly unsafe moves, then ok, but Asta can get away w/a lot vs Cervantes in this matchup. So if I'm Cervantes and the Asta refuses to duck up close, he knows I'm gonna throw him, so he can spam his 6K nonsense and get away w/it. So really, what are the options? Besides Poking, Cervantes can't do shit to Astaroth unless the Asta plays ridiculously stupid.

docvizzo: The people I play can block the 11A, B and 11AA mixup on reaction. When you see it enough times, it's easy to see (like Yoshi's lows. At first they are fast, but after a while, easy as hell to see). But keep the suggestions coming;)
 
Cervy can fight Asta in an extremely roachy way. Stay just outside of 6k range and focus on 3k / 66k / BB / 6a. Asta also has trouble dealing with 11A mixups, doesn't matter if they hit. Can he crouch throw you after 11K? But Tiamat is right, some playstyles don't require opponents to duck, but he should also realise that that's not YOUR playstyle.
 
KDZaster said:
Asta also has trouble dealing with 11A mixups, doesn't matter if they hit. Can he crouch throw you after 11K?
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I agree with Nori, after seeing the 11A series and its variations, they are not hard to see/block on reaction. Asta may get nothing for punishment on block here, but the Soul Gauge damage on block for just about all of Cervy's stuff is negligible so I'll block this series all day. I don't see 11A being the answer vs. Asta. Cervy 11K pushes back on block too far for a free crouch throw attempt.

Also, yes, you can theoretically beat opponents without having them duck, but why make yourself work so hard? Cervy's best stuff comes from opponents ducking, you get very good damage from 3B/CH 3B and you can't rely solely on iGDR punishment and pokes to win consistently. Cervy is too unsafe to be a poke character, he can't lock Asta down like other characters and it really is tough to win using 1K/2K for lows and not getting launchers into high damage juggles.
 
Keep in mind that when playing against asta, with cervy or otherwise, it's important to sidestep vs predicted bullrushes. A stepped bullrush is a free combo. I'm sure Cervy could capitalize well on this.
 
Tiamat: It's obvious that you don't play different styles of astaroth. Which makes you seem oblivious to what nori is asking. He isn't asking on what Low's to do....

He's asking for Better options. Not just safe options, but options that make your opponet start to duck to eat the low/mid mixups.

Nori: i'll get some games in with you sometime week if you want. I know tonights game is too important (GO GIANTS!!!!)unless, you're wanting to come over after the game. We can do that as well. anywho....one thing i can say is this.

Asta isn't played like aguie....don't ALWAYS expect a crouch throw from the blocked low. Instead worry about the free dmg. I'll show you sometime. :)
 
if people don't duck against you and you 'need' your opponents to duck then don't you technically havea problem with everyone? how do you beat others? asta just punishes blocked lows harder than others (except maybe the likes of soph) but remember its still only 50/50.

asta is nowhere near as unsafe as people assume he is, his weakness is mainly his speed and frames on hit. as an asta player, i have the most problems vs pressure and evasion. if you are able to dance around outside of his throw range then you can really mess him about so moves have good pushback or evasive moves in general are useful. pressure since he lacks the speed to really handle it... he has to play fairly risky to deal with it (GIs, 6b+k) etc. also any mid auto GI'ing mid attacks are also good (make sure it includes kicks though).

people who play relatively safe and dance around his max throw range/max weapon range give me the roughest time.
 
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