Attention Cervantes players

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HouseofMC

[08] Mercenary
Hey everyone, I've been following the "Balance Patch Discussion" thread and it seems that people who don't play Cervantes or have limited knowledge of him, want him nerfed. So far, his 1AB and Ab and his 3B are the problem moves. I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking he is just fine the way he is. But I fear he may indeed get hit with the nerf bat. Over at the "Balance Patch Discussion" thread they will be voting to determine what's nerfed and whats not. This is not a sure thing but I would hate for something to get horribly changed that didn't need to be. I'm not sure what to do, I don't have the pedigree to speak for everyone or anything. I just wanted to bring this to your attention. I like my pirate, I don't think he is OP. Cervantes hasn't been wrecking tourneys or filling up the placings. Here is the link to the discussion.
http://8wayrun.com/threads/balance-patch-discussion.13433/
 
I posted in there plenty of times....I use cervantes myself and here are my opinions on him: I honestly don't want him to get the nerf bat too hard I feel so far its just his damage that others are pretty worried about, I think we can all agree cervantes does alot of damage. So far I say the counter hit damage on his 1aB should drop down and probably make his aB not pushback so much on block...in that thread however I disagree on the following things about him that should be toned down. His 33B should remain untouched imo, same for bK and 3B. But I don't think anyone one here should worry...since I feel there won't even be another patch for this game namco already used there last free patch (1.03) it will cost a shit ton of money just to get another patch not just for PSN but XBL as well. And even if that did happen...well do you guys really trust there gonna change certain stuff that need to be fixed in this game? well I don't just look at the last 3 patches...the problem I see is project soul patch this game way too early without really giving this game time to be explored...and as a result, everything seems clustered up to me. Well my 2 cents on it.
 
- 1AB: maintain distance on hit; Decrease damage on CH by 10 pts
- aB: Maintain disatnce on hit and block; More freeze on block -18->-19
- 3B: More freeze on block -12->-15

That is exactly what they said. I find this quite unreasonable, IMO., aB could do a DAM nerf from (10,30) TO (10,22) IGDR should be -18 instead of -21 on block (BT Launcher punish = a little ridiculous), 1A:B CH should scale DAM so it does 55DAM with iGDR instead of the 67-80
 
The voting thing is stupid. People will either vote their fear and ignorance or they'll vote their crass self-interest. In both cases, Cervantes players, as a minority, get a little screwed...except for the fact that I'd be really, really surprised if Namco gave a shit about this. That's my ardent hope, anyway.
 
Yeah Hates, I hope Namco is done with patches for a long while. As others have said, let the game live and unfold a bit more. I was wasn't intending to rally the "Cervantes Army". Our voices would be drown out by the masses. I'm not afraid of change. But knee jerk reactions are just wrong. "Make move x,y,z -18 frames on block and that would fix everything". It's my hope Cervantes remains unchanged. If Cervantes is so broken and god-like, then where are the numbers? Where are the hundreds of band wagon players? Does everyone have a pocket Cervy? That thread was an attack on good characters. Just for that, I say we take all 8 top spots at EVO! Cervy everywhere! Rain 1ABs and iGDRs on them! Let them fear our mighty 22Ks! They will tremble at our unstoppable 4A+Bs! Let's not forget the power that is 11B! I just wana play some SCV and ask "Are you done talking yet?!?"
 
I can see how 1AB is a bit too strong and how aB is too hard to punish for i11 for some chars. IF Namco patches the other Top Tiers along with that he will be fine. There is bigger bullshit in the game (Camera Zoom on Viola).

I completely diagree with 3B nerf to -15, say hello to Alphas 44B+k BE punishment. As i said it will make some matchups stupid, not helping others at all.

Somebody should do the effort and make a list for 3B. Whats the best punishment now and what will be the best punishment when its -15. For e.G right now Alpha gets an AA, JFT is just too hard. Then he will get JFT easily and 44B+K BE.

Same for Pyrrha, who gets AA now and will get 236B:4, etc. Other characters wont profit that much, i dont see how it helps balance too much. Unfortunately i have to hand in my thesis in 2 weeks, i really cant do this work. Anyone willing? Im pretty sure this change will massively profit some chars, and give minor damage boost to the rest. E.G Alpha gets 110 DMG instead of 24 DMG, while Asta gets no buff at all etc....
 
Unfortunately, I believe no matter how well you write your thesis, people will still scream for excessive nerfs. But if things have to change, I'm ok with a damage nerf. Don't mess with my frames! If this proposed patch is made. Will it be out by EVO? Im going and would like to use our current Cervantes.
 
HouseofMC said:
Unfortunately, I believe no matter how well you write your thesis, people will still scream for excessive nerfs. But if things have to change, I'm ok with a damage nerf. Don't mess with my frames! If this proposed patch is made. Will it be out by EVO? Im going and would like to use our current Cervantes.
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Lol first of all im writing my diploma thesis, not a soul calibur thesis. Then there is no patch planned, there is no guarantee at all this will be considered by PS. Its a list which will be handed to Namco, they will do whatever they want or not.
 
I read through that entire thread and oh my word! As soon as I saw that thread I had a feeling it would be a bad idea. Belial had noble intentions even if I disagree strongly with them. He did his best to sort out a system to make it work, but there are too many voices there crying for too many nerfs, not just for Cervantes.
Firstly we got our last patch what, a couple of months ago? A little more than that? And there are already calls for another one? Sheer madness, especially given the massive cost of such a venture. It has been said many times before and I'll say it again - time needs to be taken so that the players can adapt to the game, before we start trying to adapt the game to the players. At this rate I'm sure Namco wished they never said they'll listen much more carefully to the community's wishes. What a headache!
People are throwing around the sentence "X move is OP" and "Y move needs a nerf" WAY too freely. When you say that, you're not saying that a move is a little too strong. you're saying that a move or tactic is overly dominating, to the point where the game suffers as a result. It is not something to be said lightly. Such statements should be justified much more strongly before anyone listens to them, with a lot of evidence! (Which we don't have anyway, since the game hasn't been around long enough since the last patch).

A lot of people cry out for balance, balance, balance in these kinds of discussions, without realising that keeping only balance in mind can be of detriment to the game. Perfect balance would make for a more boring game IMO, not because of the balance itself, but how much it would make other aspects of design suffer. I wonder how many posters have considered the incredible challenge Namco has in creating such a diverse and wonderful array of characters, while keeping them all FUN to play (lets remember how important this is!) and trying to maintain balance. I wonder how hard Namco would find it to implement so many of these suggested changes without moving the game towards being so much blander.

Anyway, I think I've said enough about the age old fighting game balance arguments for now.


As for Cervantes' proposed changes in that thread...

1AB reduced damage - fine. Even take out the JF followup on CH if you want.

aB reduced pushback & safety - I don't think it needs to be made launcher punishable by every character in the game. Great move but that is unfair. Reduce pushback and leave it at that, thats my opinion. But, whatever, make it worse if the move is that upsetting.

3B -15 on block - This is a RIDICULOUS suggestion. there is no nice way of putting it. The kind of suggestion that can only come about as a result of ignorance, stupidity or anti character rage. Given who made the suggestion, a great aPat player called Maxou, I'm putting it down to Cervantes rage as I'm sure he has some experience against the character. Still I don't want to get into blame games, the suggestion is completely and utterly unjustified.

To quote Belial, the topic creator:
Im not interested in remaking SCV to fit everyone dreams. All I want to hear that a reasonable list of fixes to bullshit that is in the game currently so I can mail it to Namco and MAYBE it gets fixed.
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Nerfing 3B doesn't fit with that at all. How is 3B bullshit, how is nerfing it a reasonable fix???

Moves and characters cannot be analysed in a vacuum, especially in SC, which I think was much of the problem in general. 3B doesn't track at all, is super steppable, slower than most launchers, slow enough to make a BIG difference. It does lead to big damage though, granted. But, how many of Cervantes' important moves have that kind of safety? As many sensible posters in that thread have already said, it only serves to make his worst matchups even worse. There is no need for such a nerf whatsoever.
There are other borader but just as important reasons not to nerf the move, which are summed up by Hates perfectly on page 8. That post deserves a medal. I just wished people would listen. I also wish I hadn't only seen that thread today when it got locked!

Anyway, in general, there are some valid suggestions in there, but it is way too soon for us to ask for them. My personal hope is that the whole email to Namco goes straight in the trash, maybe we can revisit in a years time when Namco could start asking for suggestions because there some good ones there. But, jesus people, if we ever do get a say, lets not just try and say things are OP when they're just strong, lets concentrate on buffing the weak!
 
I dont even understand whats so good about 1ab as a low that it needs a nerf. (I can sort of see where people are coming from about the CH damage though but that's a different story)

-6 on hit, -24 on block with no pushback and it doesnt even hurt THAT much. 26-28 is pretty small compared to some other unseeable lows in the game. Yet people want this to get a damage nerf? Sure whatever...

This is actually the worst thing about the game for me. The game's good. But out of any FG I've played SCV has the biggest amount of crybabies whining about how "Broken" and "OP" half of the games moves are because they cant be assed to learn how to counter them. It's just plain laughable seeing how some character forums are almost dead yet the balance patch wishlist thread gets a new post every 5 seconds.
 
Tofma said:
I dont even understand whats so good about 1ab as a low that it needs a nerf. (I can sort of see where people are coming from about the CH damage though but that's a different story)

-6 on hit, -24 on block with no pushback and it doesnt even hurt THAT much. 26-28 is pretty small compared to some other unseeable lows in the game. Yet people want this to get a damage nerf? Sure whatever...

This is actually the worst thing about the game for me. The game's good. But out of any FG I've played SCV has the biggest amount of crybabies whining about how "Broken" and "OP" half of the games moves are because they cant be assed to learn how to counter them. It's just plain laughable seeing how some character forums are almost dead yet the balance patch wishlist thread gets a new post every 5 seconds.
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1AB is not about the NH Damage, its about the CH damage for a i17 full tracking low, which is 70 DMG to be clear. Almost any low in SC can be stepped to at least one side and is slower and is less damage. Only thing which saves this move from beeing unbelievable broken is the huge unsafeness on Block. Any char can massively punish.

Top Players often times refuse to ever duck, since they dont want to eat damaging mids. To be honest 1AB is way more abusable against really strong players, which is a bit paradox. When people randomly crouch, which is quite a bad habit in general, i have more trouble abusing this move. But of course this opens other options.

So it seems SC5 Cervantes really forces top players to duck more, which seems to upset them a lot :) Add the other properties and you can see where the frustration about this move comes from.
 
French players in particular like to step a lot, and never duck. Hence, they are good. Hence, they also don't like 1AB.

For me it's just adjusting to the matchup. But yes, Cervantes is really good at making his opponent freeze. I guess he has a gun, so it makes sense, right?
 
Im with you guys. Cervantes is very strong, but also has pretty great weaknesses that HAVE to be played to or you will die a horrible death... ....

and 1AB aB and 3B are gdlyk FYI. lucky your rush down sucks.

IMO you should not use 1AB by running up to your opponent to do it. IT should be performed when people are coming IN! when they come in to mix you up or dump some shit it will hit on CH. furthermore no one really runs up and DUCKS. lol. just a tidbit from a decent cervy player i play with often
 
I especially like the tid bit
"nerf Patroklos' 1K frames on hit, + on hit lows aren't a part of this game anymore" or something to a similar effect. Since we see Patroklos' 1K just saturating the top 5 of majors.
People are going to cry, and imho it's in the game's best interest that PS doesn't listen. Hope you guys the best with him not getting changed too much.
 
I just don't see Cervantes dominating. I understand on paper he looks like he should win every fight. And with perfect execution he is a damage monster. But is Cervy winning every Tourny he is in? Are the top spots Cervy, Cervy and Cervy? Nightmare wins. Viola wins. Natsu wins etc... Same with Alpha, on paper a monster. And yes hard to deal with in the right hands. But only time will tell if "OP". I would like buffs to a few underpowered characters. I love buffs to a certain extent.
 
Aren't people demanding a CE nerf, probably more for her? Again, it's probably best they don't touch this game long enough to let it settle. Can't make a good roast if you keep turning the cut.
 
People make me laugh, Nigthmare, VIOLA(THE MOST) and a few others should be the main concerns. Maybe an overall dmg decrease but I think Cervy is good the way he is.
 
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