B+K whiffs

Kvasir

Kvasir

[10] Knight
I've had issues with B+KBBBA whiffing mid-string, which causes me to get blocked/punished/GI'ed. It's been irritating me for too long, and I've finally got around to trying to understand why it happens. So I took a few chars, and B+K'd them from different angles, at different distances.

For the sides I took 1 step from point blank left/right, and for back, I took two steps to the opponent's left (I also tried my best to avoid the idle animation). The numbers represent the number of times I used A+B+Kg to create space (0 is as close as possible, and 3 is tip range for B+K), and the bit after is the answer to "Is BBBA guaranteed from this position after B+K hits?".

Amy

Front:
0-Yes
1-Yes
2-Yes
3-No, the first B can be blocked.

Right:
0-Yes
1-Yes
2-No, the A can be blocked.

Left:
0-Yes
1-Yes
2-No, the A can be blocked.

Back:
0-Yes
1-Yes
2-It was inconsistent. The A was blocked on roughly half my attempts.

Astaroth

Front:
0-Yes
1-Yes
2-Yes
3-No, the first B can be blocked.

Right:
0-No, the A can be blocked.

Left:
0-It was inconsistent. The 8th hit always whiffs, but Asta wasn't always able to block the A after.

Back:
0-No, the A can be blocked.

Siegfried

Front:
0-Yes
1-Yes
2-Yes
3-No, the first B can be blocked.

Right:
0-Yes
1-Yes
2-No, the A can be blocked.

Left:
0-Yes
1-Yes
2-Yes
3-No, the first B can be blocked.

Back:
0-Yes
1-No, the A can be blocked.

Taki

Front:
0-Yes
1-Yes
2-Yes
3-No, the first B can be blocked.

Right:
0-Yes
1-No, the A can be blocked.

Left:
0-Yes
1-Yes
2-No, A can be blocked.

Back:
0-Yes
1-Yes
2-Yes
3-No, the first B can be blocked.

The only hits that I noticed whiffing during the test were the 2nd, 3rd (from the string starting at tip range), and the 8th hit of the string (from the opponent getting pushed out too far). But if I remember correctly I've seen it happen to me between those hits in matches. That may be caused by the opponent crouching or something, I don't have any idea right now.

So, yeah, be careful with B+K (1. when outside close range (2. when punishing after step (3. Against Asta >.>
 
nice work there. i dont particularly like this move because if these issues. every time i try to use it i get shafted and its difficult as well making it a very high risk move imho. the B+K now and then cos its pretty safe and hit confirmable but everything after that seems risky for what 50damage non just of 67(???) for the just.
 
twiggywales said:
nice work there. i dont particularly like this move because if these issues. every time i try to use it i get shafted and its difficult as well making it a very high risk move imho. the B+K now and then cos its pretty safe and hit confirmable but everything after that seems risky for what 50damage non just of 67(???) for the just.
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totally agree twiggy. Seems of late that I get more issues with the A being ducked cause I catch them already in a ducked poition. Size of character doesnt seem to matter however I see it happening LESS on bigger characters. smaller ones I will cut out B+KBBBA totally and use 3B LO B RC B stuff. adds up to more damage anyway just not as cool to look at. and that damn move is a bitch to pull off consistantly online. even offline its not a very consistant thing either.

But good work on that list. You gotta kinda have to not rely on B+KBBBA. all though its maxis best punisher, its that damn risk reward factor that maxi struggles with.
 
Yeah, the the non-JF version usually misses in stuns since the last hit is high. The JF version's A is mid, but even with that, and the BT B+K it's not really worth going for imo. The damage gets scaled down horribly with all those hits, on top of the chance to mess it up, and lose free damage.

I dropped the move for a while, but I changed my mind again a month ago; I don't think it's a move Maxi can afford to scrap. As a punishment, and a move to just throw out, I believe the risk/reward can be shifted into Maxi's favor with proper practice, and understanding.
 
Hot_Rod_Dave said:
totally agree twiggy. Seems of late that I get more issues with the A being ducked cause I catch them already in a ducked poition. Size of character doesnt seem to matter however I see it happening LESS on bigger characters. smaller ones I will cut out B+KBBBA totally and use 3B LO B RC B stuff. adds up to more damage anyway just not as cool to look at. and that damn move is a bitch to pull off consistantly online. even offline its not a very consistant thing either.

But good work on that list. You gotta kinda have to not rely on B+KBBBA. all though its maxis best punisher, its that damn rick reward factor that maxi struggles with.
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RC B is techable to the side. To avoid that, you'll have to use RC K which does much inferior damage, around 62 if I recall correctly. And you have to hit on CH for the combo to work. If you get B+K on NH, it combos and does 50 something. And it rings out to his rear pretty good, but not super consistently due to the angle of the launch. On small stages it works great though. You can't ignore this move.
 
i know that people should be doing this move, and i can perform it 85ish % of the time and the just about 40% of that (sometimes more depending on my mood) i have tryed putting it in to my step game and use it more as a punisher but i still just feel its to risky.

i19 -6 on block and hit confirmable for damage up to 67(with the JF) is really nice but wiffing and random blocking and difficulty of using the move means i would rather use other stuff,

A+B i16 NNC 47 damage on CH especailly useful if you have trained someone to think you will A+Bg more often than not that way they eat the second hit.

6A+B BL B_K i18 good crouch 30-40ish damage can be 6A+Bg if you wanna try it as a risk move and that leaves you in TC

4B~LO games i18 yes only 14 damage but its hit confirmable for LOBK, also 4B PSL3 ROB or 4B PSL2 LIB. if you ask me my not lead to guarentied damage but leads to better options

hell BB i16 NC 27damage +3 frame advantage going in to LO games again

while i see B+KBBBA having a place in is game i feel he has better options a lot of the time, maybe if bamco made it easier to do, or not have wiffing issues i would use it more than i do but at the moment i only use it if i feel i am in control of the match and want to do a flashy combo
 
I totally agree with you the risk/reward is totally out of whack. I just think that the move should be easier to do because it would fill a HUGE gap in his game. Even the non-JF version does more damage than every single option you listed. It's also a mid and almost every other option you listed also has MAJOR drawbacks as a step punisher.

1) A+B has major whiff issues on the 2nd (shitty) stun crumple. It doesn't ring out, and its really bad on block. Threat of the follow makes A+Bg good, but then you get even less damage and only get a mixup.
2) 6A+B doesn't even do 45 damage, its high, and its only 1 frame faster...and on block it's death.
4) 4B~LO just doesn't do enough damage. Sure it leads to more options but i'm not going to turn down 50 guaranteed damage...just the threat of that move can make your options more viable.
5) BB sucks...punisher only and leaving you in LO ain't that great because you don't even have the guaranteed LO B followup like you do with 4B on hit.
 
Marginal said:
I hate rewarding Rick. I've never even met the dude.
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OMG, I cant get out one post without something being wrong. I really want to thank all the little people that made this happen. Mom Dad God etc. Wanna thank my manager, my producer, and all my fans....you know what just start calling crazy yoshimitsu. I love you guys like a fat kid loves cake.

The B+K whiff has got me very hesitant on using it. Now Im stuck to online only play and its had me use it in only one kind of set up that makes me comfortable. CH BL A, LI K, B+K BBBA, if im feeling froggy. But I will substitute CH BL A, LI K, 3B, LO B, RC B. I know RC B can be teched but it rarley gets teched. There have been more times than not lately that B+K BBBA whiffs, or gets blocked in the middle of the string, and if I land all the hits and fuck up the A timing, Im eating shit.

HRD
 
You guys really need to use B+K regardless.
here's a lil trick that helps realign you a lil better....when you step G an attack, press G AGAIN, then IMMEDIATELY do B+K after.
 
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