Balance Patch Community Vote

Belial · May 31, 2012

As promised, I finally am able to bring this vote/poll to your attention.
After we finish the vote I will send results to Namco to let them know what community thinks.

In the message below this one you will find an example of properly compiled vote post.
Here is a template to ease things a bit for you

SPOILER
Toggle Spoiler

TEMPLATE:

SYSTEM CHANGES:

1
2
3
4

CHARACTER CHANGES

5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66

Vote Rules
Its pretty simple, just put a number and, if there is a choice a letter or a couple.
Just skip positions you are not sure if it needs patching or not.
If you dont want something patched put NO next to the number
As always I will keep offtopic to minimum.

System Changes:
1. Critical Edge Moves
a) Increase unsafety on many CE moves blocked
b) Remove invincibility frames from many CE moves

2. Critical Gauge
a) Remove bonus meter, whenever a character loses 2 rounds
b) Only character first to lose 2 rounds gain bonus meter

3. Life Bar/Damage
a) Decrease overall damage of many moves (Increase overall health of characters)
b) Singnificant combo damage decrease on moves that deal 70 and more damage
c) Significant combo damage decrease for moves that have evasive properties (in-built Tech Crouch, Tech Jump, SideStep)

4. Moves properties
a) Decrease BE throw-escape window slightly (less time to break)
b) Maintain distance on block on many characters 3B.

------------------------------------------
Alpha Patroklos
5. General
a) Damage decrease on many moves

6. 33B
a) More freeze on block (More disadvantage)
b) Decrease tracking
c) Maintain distance on block

7. FCa:B (Just Frame Twister)
a) Decrease damage
b) Increase tracking against left tech in 2xJFT combos
c) Remove "hit grounded" property

8. 66B
a) Decrease tracking
b) Increase freeze on block (More disadvantage)

Aeon
9. General
a) Increase damage on many pokes (quick moves).

10. 44BAA
a) Improve tracking on 2nd and 3rd hits.
11. 6BB
a) NC even on crouching opponents (as of now 2nd hit wiffs if first hits crouching opponent)

Algol
12. General:
a) Decrease damage on many moves
b) Prevent multiple BE in combos

13. 66B
a) Increase freeze on block
b) Decrease damage (for 66bA+B+K too)

14. CE
a) Decrease damage from CEx2

Astaroth
15. 66kA+B+K
a) Decrease combo damage after revenge trigger

16. 22_88bA+B+K
a) Decrease tracking

17. CE
a) Decrease speed
b) Decrease damage
c) Change property to AT

Cervantes
18. aB
a) More freeze on block (more unsafe)
b) Maintain distance on block/hit
c) Decrease damage
d) Decrease execution speed

19. 1A:B
a) Decrease damage
b) Maintain distance on hit

20. 4bA+B+K
a) Decrease opponent freeze on block (less advantage)
b) Decrease combo damage

21. iGDR
a) Decrease combo damage

Dampierre
22. 623KKK series
a) Decrease damage
b) Increase difficulty
c) Add a chance to go into PB after last hit
d) Add a chance to go into PB after each hit

23. 623B
a) Increase freeze on block
b) Decrease combo damage

Ezio
24. General
a) Improve execution speed of some moves

25. 6K2
a) Less freeze on hit and block

26. 44B
a) Less freeze on block

Hilde
27. C2B
a) Remove multiple C2B combos

28. 22_88B
a) Decrease damage.
Ivy
29. CE
a) Decrease speed
b) Decrease damage
c) Change property into AT

30. 22_88bA+B+K
a) Increase damage

31. 6Bhold8_2
a) Less freeze on block

Leixia
32. General
a) Damage increase

33. 6KK
a) Less pushback on hit

34. WS bA+B+K
a) Damage Increase

35. 22_88K
a) More opponent freeze on hit

Maxi
36. General
a) Damage increase on some moves.

37. WS B+K
a) Decrease tracking
b) More freeze on block if cancelled with G
Mitsurugi
38. Generala) Damage decrease on many moves
b) Worse frame data on many moves with small disadvantage on block

39. 4B
a) Decrease tracking
b) Increase freeze on block
c) Decrease damage
d) Decrease burst rate
Natsu
40. Generala) Maintain distance on block on many movesb) Decrease damage on many moves on CH
41. WS K
a) Decrease combo damage on CH
b) Increase freeze on block (More unsafe)

42. 4A+Ba) Maintain distance on block
b) More freeze on block (more unsafe)
c) A-cancel is only possible before bomb hits.

Nightmare
43. General
a) Wall combo damage scaling decrease.
b) Damage decrease on some heavy moves.

Patrokolos
44. Generala) Less meter gain
b) Worse frame data on many moves with small disadvantage on block (66B,1B)
c) Reduce combo damage on many moves.

45. 1K
a) Less opponent freeze on hit

46. B+K
a) Increase freeze on block (more unsafe)

Pyrrha
47. 66A
a) Decrease dmage
b) Increse freeze on block
c) Change hit stun, so it doesnt turn sideways on hit.

48. 22_88K
a) Increase freeze on block (More unsafe)
b) Reduce damage combo on CH
Pyrrha Omega
49. DNS B
a) Add freeze on block
b) Decrease damage
c) Maintain distance on block

50. NS A
a) Add freeze on block
b) Add freeze on hit (prevent NS B/CE combo)

51. CE
a) Decrease damage

Raphael
52. General
a) Increase damage on many pokes
b) Improve tracking on many horizontal moves

53. 44B
a) Decrease freeze on block (more safe)

Siegfried
54. General
a) Improve evasion on all stance transitions
b) Fix multiple wiff and hitbox problems

55. 2KKKKK
a) Decrease pushback on hit.

Tira
56. GS 66B variations
a) Decrease damage

57. GS 3aA+B+K
a) Decrease damage

58. JS 2AB
a) Increase window for B-press. (make possible to hit-confirm on CH)

Viola
59. Generala) Decrease opponent freeze on hit for many moves, to prevent free launchers.
b) Prevent multiple BE in combosc) Decrease damage on some heavy-hitting moves

60. SET 3B
a) Increase freeze on block (more unsafe)

61. 44aA+B+K
a) Remove option to delay 2nd hit.

Voldo
62. General
a) Fix multiple hitbox issues.
63. CE
a) Decrease damage.

Xiba
64. 3B
a) more freeze on block
b) Slower transition to stance

Yoshimitsu
65. CE
a) Decrease damage

ZWEI
66. General
a) Decrease freeze on block for some moves (more safe).
b) Better framedata for many moves.
c) Improve clean hit ratio for many moves.
d) Improve hitbox(reach) for many moves.

Belial · May 31, 2012

SYSTEM CHANGES:

1a
2b
3abc
4b

CHARACTER CHAGES

5a
6abc
7a
8a
9a
10a
11a
12ab
13ab
14a
15a
16 NO
17b
18bd
19ab
20b
21a
22abd
23ab
24a
25a
26
27 a
28a
29b
30a
31
32a
33
34
35
36a
37ab
38ab
39a
40ab
41a
42c
43ab
44abc
45a
46a
47c
48b
49abc
50ab
51a
52ab
53a
54ab
55a
56a
57a
58a
59abc
60a
61a
62a
63
64a
65a
66ad

Belial · May 31, 2012

Id love to see this on the news page. I want as much people as possible to vote.

Dreamkiller · May 31, 2012

From my experience CE's don't have invincibility they're just ridiculously fast.
All the start-up happens before the close up.

Asodimazze · May 31, 2012

System Changes

1) NO
2) NO
3) NO
4) NO

Character Changes

5) NO
6) a
7) a
8) a
9) a
10) a
11) a
12) NO
13) a
14) NO
15) NO
16) NO
17) NO
18) NO
19) b
20) NO
21) NO
22) NO
23) NO
24) a
25) a
26) a
27) a
28) NO
29) NO
30) NO
31) a
32) a
33) NO
34) a
35) NO
36) NO
37) b
38) NO
39) ab
40) NO
41) b
42) a
43) NO
44) NO
45) a
46) NO
47) NO
48) a
49) NO
50) a
51) NO
52) b
53) NO
54) b
55) a
56) NO
57) NO
58) a
59) c
60) a
61) NO
62) a
63) NO
64) NO
65) NO
66) bc

+ Reduce Patroklos A+B GI window

Maxou · May 31, 2012

System change :
1ab
2a
3c
4b

Alpha
5. NO decrease damage on JF twister and 2A BE that's all.
6.ac
7.ab
8.a

What about FC 3A+B? I think this move deserves to be -18.

Aeon
9
10.a
11.a

Algol
12.a (many moves = ?)
13.a
14.a

Astaroth
15.a
16.
17.b

Cervantes
18.ab
19.ab
20.b
21.a

What about CE? What about 3B?

Dampierre
22.c
23.a

Ezio
24.
25.a
26.a

Hilde
27.a

What about A+B being -16? Why did nobody propose a buff for this character?

Ivy
29.b
30.
31.

Leixa
32.a
33.a
34.a
35.

Maxi
36.No need
37.b

Mitsurugi
38.ab
39.ab

Natsu
40.ab
41.ab
42.c

What about double CE out of 2A+B? When I think about it, A+B probably deserves to be more unsafe, and 22A too.

Nightmare
43.a

Patroklos
44.ab
45.a (+0/+1 is probably fair)
46.a

Pyrrha
47bc
48.a

Pyrrha Omega
49.a
50.a
51.a

Raphael
52.ab
53.a

Siegfried
54.ab
55.a

Tira
56.a
57.a
58.a

Viola
59.bc
60.a
61.a

Voldo
62.a
63.a

Xiba
64.a
65

Yoshimitsu
65.a

ZWEI
66.ad

darkfender · May 31, 2012

TEMPLATE:

SYSTEM CHANGES:

1 B
2 A
3 ABC
4

CHARACTER CHANGES

5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 A
13
14
15 A
16 A
17 ABC
18 ABCD
19 A
20
21 A
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37 A
38 AB
39 ABC
40
41
42 C
43 AB
44 ABC
45 A
46 A
47
48
49 A
50 AB
51
52 AB
53
54 B
55 A
56
57
58
59 AB
60 A
61
62
63
64
65
66

Actually most options seems too generic to get a well pondered vote...
Also voting against is same as not voting for lack of knowledge of the issue?

This way for example raph won't take enough votes (lets face it raph was bad pre nerf after nerf really few plays it) or most people will give random votes because they know raph is bad :|
real problems are not even mentioned, instead 44B .____. is? i would understand prepK and SEA that almost every raph user talked about not 44B that really few players (i think 1 or 2) complained of... instead ZWEI got an in depth poll?

Raph has complex issues and needed more space both in discussion than here but lack of players led us here...(and lack of strength is the reason of the former).
Well i used few lines but won t discuss farther in order to leave this thread clean...

Slade · May 31, 2012

SPOILER
Toggle Spoiler

SYSTEM CHANGES:

1 AB
2 A
3 No
4 A

CHARACTER CHANGES

5 No
6 B
7 No
8 A
9 A
10 A (to fix whiffing in combos)
11 A
Additional note: fix random whiffing of CE, add a stun to the flames so he isn't at disadvantage on hit; improve consistency of 44K in combos
Regarding Algol, I feel as though I'm qualified to speak in regards to this character. The changes I would like to see would be:
*Decrease CEx2 damage (135 → 105, changes 66B → CE combo from 160 → 125)
*Decrease 100% meter combo damage from its average of ~200 to ~130
*Decrease safety of 44B (-10 → -13). Slow and linear; step for launch punish, block for AA punish.
*Decrease safety of 66B (-4 → -8)
*Add counter hit stun to 3AA that enables 2A+B followup (3AA > 2A+B > 66B/FC 8B combo damage ~60). As it is 3AA is a stab punishable, i22, non hit-confirmable move that only gives 37 damage.
*Increase safety of 66A (-12 → -11)
*Increase damage of 44AA (44 → ~50)
*Increase consistency of tech traps after 22A
*Reduce tracking on QI B and QI K
*Increase damage of QI A (30 → 38)
*Fix whiffing issues on the first hit of 4BA. Very noticeable after successful Just Guards.
These changes would make his damage output with meter not retarded while also improving his problems with linearity. By moving a lot of his damage focus from huge, damaging combos into proper reads and punishing the opponent's movement, the character better rewards skillful play while removing his ability to get free, brainless rounds by blowing two bars.
15 No
16 A
17 A
18 B
19 A
20 A
21 No
22 No
23 No
24 No
25 No
26 A
27 A
28 No
29 A
30 No
31 A
32 A
33 No
34 No (already has damage buff when it evades an attack)
35 A
36 No
37 AB
38 A (6B8: 32 → 22, 1B: 21 → 20, 4KB: 62 → ~45, A+G: 50 → 45, B+G: 55 → 50, left throw: 65 → 55, right throw: 65 → 60, 66A+B: 52 → 42, 236B: 42 → 32 (BE version stays 42), 236(B): 62 → 52, remove CE → CE combo, remove 22B → 3B combo; standard followups could be 6B2 or 1B)
39 ABD
40 No
41 B (-13)
42 No
43 No (additional note: improve NSS (A) > NSS b:A consistency)
44 No
45 No
46 No
47 B
48 No; reduce TC frames (similar to Sieg 22A change)
49 C
50 No (unsafe and high, fairly low tracking for a horizontal)
51 No (slower, i14 or i15, remove slight side tracking)
52 B
53 A (-13)
54 B
55 A
56 No
57 A, but only in wall combos
58 A
59 A
60 A (-14 → -16)
61 A
62 A
63 No (it's i19, the damage is fine; increase recovery into MC on block)
64 No
65 No (i16, heavily unsafe, low combo opportunity)
66 B (3A BE should be safe, A+B -16 → -14)

I still think having another patch for this game would be very, very bad for the community, especially if it comes before Evo. Would it really be so bad to wait until after Evo so we have a better understanding of the game? There's plenty of tech that people are sitting on that we aren't aware of.

Mandy · May 31, 2012

You guys are trying to build a different game; I honestly don't understand all of the effort put forth for this giant wish list which Bamco is most likely not going to glance at.

Eli123s · May 31, 2012

SYSTEM CHANGES:

1a
2No
3abc
4ab

CHARACTER CHANGES

5a
6abc
7ac
8ab
9-
10-
11-
12ab
13ab
14a
15a
16a
17b
18abc
19ab
20ab
21a
22a
23ab
24-
25-
26-
27-
28-
29No
30a
31a
32No
33-
34No
35-
36No
37ab
38ab
39abcd
40ab
41ab
42abc
43ab
44abc
45a
46a
47abc
48ab
49abc
50ab
51No
52ab
53No
54ab
55a
56a
57a
58No
59abc
60a
61a
62a
63a
64ab
65a
66No

Echo01 · May 31, 2012

Looks like a massive list of nerfs to me =/ I'm not an expert here, so maybe someone could explain to me what would be wrong with just buffing weaker characters so that they can compete with the established stronger characters, instead of nerfing across the board?

JustinAkatsuki · May 31, 2012

Personally as much as I want certain things to be either fixed, nerf or buffed I feel they should just remake another version of sc5...some of you may not like that idea BUT..maybe a complete story mode, character bio's and some re-adjustments to the game's mechanics would actually do. Why am I even posting? I left and quit the game anyway.. and I agree with slade, Think it's a good idea to just wait after EVO. Since it's really almost around the corner.

Synraii · May 31, 2012

System Changes:
1. No
2. A
3. A
4. B

Alpha Patroklos
5. No
6. B, C
7. A, B
8. A.

39. A, B, C, D.

setto-kun · May 31, 2012

SYSTEM CHANGES:

1a
2b
3ac
4ab

CHARACTER CHANGES

5a
6ac
7a
8ab
9a
10a
11a
12ab
13ab
14a
15 NO
16a
17b
18b
19b
20b
21 NO
22a
23a
24a
25a
26 NO
27a
28a
29b
30a
31a
32a
33 NO
34 NO
35a
36a
37ab
38a
39ab
40a
41b
42c
43a
44abc
45a
46a
47c
48ab
49c
50ab
51 NO
52a
53a
54ab
55a
56a
57a
58a
59abc
60a
61a
62a
63 NO
64b
65a
66 NO

Kalas · May 31, 2012

List:

SPOILER: Kalas' list
Toggle Spoiler

system changes:
1A
2A
4B

character changes:
Alpha: 5 NO + 6ABC + 7A + 8AB
Aeon: 9A + 10A + 11A
Algol: 12A + 13B
Astaroth: 15A + 17C
Cervantes: 18C + 19A
Hilde: 27A
Ivy: 29C+ 30A
Leixia: 32A + 33A + 34A (not more damage, but no scaling if the opponents doesn't press G) + 35A
Mitsu: 38AB + 39AB
Patroklos: 44AB + 45A + 46A
Pyrrha: 47C
Pyrrha Omega: 49BC + 51A
Raphael: 52AB + 53A
Siegfried: 54AB + 55A
Viola: 59AB + 60A + 61A
Voldo: 62A (and Step G)
Yoshi: 65A
ZWEI: 66AB

I don't know about the characters I left out.

Notes:

1. Thanks a lot Belial. I'm sure it wasn't easy to filter all information in the balance thread and to create a vote list that makes sense and is not blinded by people's subjectiveness or whine-ness.
2. To everybody who says that this whole things is useless: It is not, but your comments are.
3. There's always an opinion of somebody you don't agree with, deal with it.

Wandrian · May 31, 2012

SPOILER: Wandrian's boring list
Toggle Spoiler

SYSTEM CHANGES:

1: A
2: NO
3: B
4: B

CHARACTER CHANGES

5: A
6: A
7: C
8: 66B
10: A
11: A
17: NO
18: B
19: A
21: A
22: NO
23: A
24: A
25: A
26: A
27: A
28: A
29: B
30: A
31: NO
32: NO
33: NO
34: NO
35: NO
36: NO
38: A
39: A
42: C
44: B
45: A
46: A
47: C
48: A
51: NO
52: A
53: A
54: B
55: A
56: A
57: NO
58: NO
59: B
60: A
61: A
62: A
63: NO
64: B
65: NO
66: A

Are we allowed to change our votes before voting ends, or is it set in stone after we post?

Belial · May 31, 2012

just edit your posts if you changed your mind.

Wid0maker · May 31, 2012

thanks for the work but....you all want to nerf Tira MORE? LOL! She's fine as she is right now. If she was brain-dead easy to use, yeah, I guess I could see nerfing her more, but she got hit hard enough with the 1.02 patch.

I'm all for SC5 being fun and good but too much emphasis is placed on making characters "better" or nerfing them. Why doesn't everyone just focus on getting better at the game themselves before changing the characters so much?

So...
System changes:
1. NO
2. NO
3. b...I suppose, but still not totally for it
4. NO

Tira:
56. NO
57. NO
58. NO

GoldDragon · May 31, 2012

SYSTEM CHANGES:

1a = Yes
1b = No

CHARACTER CHANGES

6a = yes
6b = no
6c = no

14 = no

18 a = no
18b = yes
18c = no
18d = no

25 = yes

27 = yes

31 = no

32 = no

36 = NO!!

38a = no
38b = yes
39a = YES!
39b = YES!!
39c = no
39d = no

43a = no

44b = yes
45 = yes

47a = no
47b = no
47c = yes
48a = no
48b = no

49a = no
49b = no
49c = no
50a = no
50b = no
51 = no

54a = no
55 = yes

58 = no

59a = yes

64a = yes
64b = yes

66a = yes
66b = yes
66c = no
66d = no

EDIT* Looks like some people still want to run their mouth. Well, it looks to me like......

1) Everything has pretty much been decided on what's the community wants nerfed/buffed. So if you're complaining about "Why didn't someone ask about......" Well maybe you should've done that. It's a COMMUNITY patch vote. Not a babysitter's patch vote.
2) If you have the time to run your mouth..... at least take the time to vote. Maybe then someone won't gloss over your post as anything other than sour grapes.

DeathInMyEyes · May 31, 2012

SYSTEM CHANGES:

1 NO
2 NO
3 A
4 A, B

CHARACTER CHANGES

Cervantes

18. B
19. A
20. NO
21. NO

Dampierre
22. NO
23. NO

Nightmare
43. A

Tira
56. NO
57. NO
58. A

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Balance Patch Community Vote

Belial King of Hundred Swords

Belial King of Hundred Swords

Belial King of Hundred Swords

Dreamkiller Equal Sign Slash

Asodimazze [05] Battler

Maxou [10] Knight

darkfender [07] Duelist

Slade [13] Hero

Mandy Yes, a guy.

Eli123s when it rains, it pours

Echo01 [06] Combatant

JustinAkatsuki Guest

Synraii [14] Master

setto-kun [07] Duelist

Kalas [12] Conqueror

Wandrian I don't know.

Belial King of Hundred Swords

Wid0maker [10] Knight

GoldDragon [02] Apprentice

DeathInMyEyes [10] Knight

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Balance Patch Community Vote

Belial King of Hundred Swords

Belial King of Hundred Swords

Belial King of Hundred Swords

Dreamkiller Equal Sign Slash

Asodimazze [05] Battler

Maxou [10] Knight

darkfender [07] Duelist

Slade [13] Hero

Mandy Yes, a guy.

Eli123s when it rains, it pours

Echo01 [06] Combatant

JustinAkatsuki Guest

Synraii [14] Master

setto-kun [07] Duelist

Kalas [12] Conqueror

Wandrian I don't know.

Belial King of Hundred Swords

Wid0maker [10] Knight

GoldDragon [02] Apprentice

DeathInMyEyes [10] Knight

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