Moldredd
[09] Warrior
Now that we pretty much covered his good moves I think we should as well cover his worst ones.
This may be common information to must of us but I believe there's always fresh bloods in search of wisdom. This thread will serve them into knowing what moves they should avoid at all cost. That way they can enrich their gameplay and become better at the game by discarding such defective moves.
I'll try to cover as most as I can. Also, keep in mind that some people may not agree with everything but that's good. That way we can stimulate our brains into a healthy discussion.
I'll start the list now and give you an in-depth of each one as giving my personal top 10 worst Cervantes moves.
DC B+K (Solar Flare) - I really consider Cervantes' DC game extremely weak in this game. We can't longer delay moves or do them sooner making his DC nothing but an extremely limited stance. Not mentioning that most followup in the exception of GDR are slow, visible and most important, way too risky.
Back in the days we could delay his moves to unimaginable heights, catching people of guard with random DC A UB's or GDR's. But no longer. I do understand that the same as Geo Da Ray, Solar Flare is one Cervantes signature moves but that's not enough to make it usable.
The move has no tracking at all and is very see-able. Against a good player is useless. Do it and expect to eat a launcher or Vertical Auto-GI's. This is probably not only Cervantes' most useless move out of DC but his entire movelist as well. Avoid at all cost!
Uses - None.
4A+B (Alpha 3's Shin Psycho Crusher) - To start this one, it simply looks badass. Makes you look pimping/gansta/swag/etc. when playing against beginners and makes you feel you are on another level of awesomeness. But in reality this is nothing but a suicidal move.
It's indeed one of the most obvious moves out there, the damage is weak compared to iGDR, startup is a little faster than SC4's but still slow as hell and lost it's BA properties, is extremely unsafe on block and very JG/GI/Stepped on reaction. Don't try this move even if your guts say otherwise. DON'T!
It may have its uses but it is definitely not meant for use in normal circumstances at all. I did, however, find a somewhat questionable way to use it. If carefully done while your back is kissing the ring's edge against a short ranged character it might just save you. This move tricks the game into believing you had just ring yourself out just to comeback from the pit (Camera changes). Also if they don't have any sort of vertical aGI or bar they have no option but to guard/just guard/step it, getting you out of the ring edge area. For the price of getting severely punished of course... If blocked, the move crossovers them in some cases. This solution is random and it may result in you RO'ing yourself out anyway (In some cases.).
Uses -Random RO avoidance madness, flashy victory katas.
WS A+B (Flying Dutchman) - This move was decent in the past. It was a series of uninterrupted machine thrusts with the possibility of becoming a BA if you mashed B 8 times while doing it before the last hit. It had nice damage and great speed. This time however, has been changed to become quite useless. It's damage is still good but, the big difference now is that is quite unsafe as last hit is easily step-able and you will eat a guaranteed launcher or a GI if they are feeling
modest.
The moves destroys guard pretty fast but since of the nature of the last hit. It's something I wouldn't recommend. Even if you manage to break their guard, you don't get much which is really a waste unless you are going for the kill of course. Need to check the meter gain of this move though. But don't think that would be enough either.
Uses - Guard burst for the kill.
WS A+B BE (Fata Morgana Aka Flying Dutchman on Steroids?) - Not really. This move shares all of it's lesser version's properties with the addition of another series of machine thrusts instead of a single last thrust, also these get BA properties. The sad bad is that the same as WS A+B the last hits are also easily stepped. Also these last hits NEVER break guard, only the first ones do. So no big damage if you burst them, just the remaining hits of the moves which should give you less than 65 which isn't worth it at all the meter. You spend a bar and all you get is a step-able move with a damage limit of 65?
This is what JF Flying Dutchman was in the past with the exception of being useless and unsafe.
Uses - Same as above and hate them so much.
22_88[ B ] (Dread Pressure) - A nostalgia move. This move's name was indeed meaningful in the past. It was simply scary. In SC2 it was fast and had 100% tracking, in SC3 it lost it's tracking but the hitboxes were so outrageous that stepping it was often tedious, all that without mentioning the endless 1A mixups and high damage the move had. Namco decided not to include it in SC4 (Which made me cry.) and now is back but as garbage. They should have just leave out of this game if they knew it was going to be bad. That way we should have gotten a new move instead (Maybe.).
The move is way slower than it's various counterparts, damage is weak as well, has no tracking at all and most important, it only has two stages of charging which means that you cant mix it up. Charge it a little more than expected and it's already too late.
Uses - Normal version is useful and has clean hit properties but UB is suicidal. Maybe useful during wakeup but I really doubt it.
22_88A BE (LOL where are my frames!?) - This move is simply a joke. Makes me wonder whom was the idea of such. Not much to cover here as it's quite simple. This move is -infinite frames after A on counter hit! They can do pretty much anything with you after taking the hit. It's a pity as the only thing that burst guard is the last BT B+K-like hit for a guaranteed CH 44A+B. Really a shame but move discarded.
Uses - Useful for when you want to waste bar...oh wait!
DC B (Geo Da Ray) - This move is probably the annoyance of every single Cervantes player. This is what we get when we miss the iGDR's execution and what get after it isn't even prettier. Granted, it has great damage and covers a large amount of space. But the fact that is quite unsafe and is the reason of so many self RO's is enough to be afraid of it. We simply hate you, GDR.
Uses - Possibly Post-GI when it comes out accidentally off iGDR. Still good in that sense...
DC A/DC K (The joke that unfortunately gets old.) - These move aren't useless, they have it uses but when you find someone that knows Cervantes very well. You will begin to question their usefulness at best. Both are quite slow and see-able once you get used to their animations. What makes this worse is the aforementioned Dread Charge Stance.
I would say on wakeup his DC game is decent but since we cant mess with DC's timing and the moves themselves have no good tracking at all I say it's quite useless. We cant mix it up, instead we have to guess what the opponent will do. Lastly, if they lack good reaction skill then they can easily option select it with ease once they know the exact details of the followups.
Just back in the days we could wait and see what they were going to do and do the best followup accordingly but now all that is gone. So that pretty much kills it imo.
Uses - Probably on wakeup at times in the hopes of landing it on a disoriented opponent.
WS B+K (Tornado Swell) - To clarify, this is an exception, this move is not completely bad. The only thing that puts it in the list is the fact that is the most unsafe move in the game. You throw it at random and say goodbye to a round. You need to be extremely cautions when using this kind of technology. Otherwise expect to lose a lot!
Uses - This is in my opinion the best High whiff punisher in the entire game. A single move that has clean hit properties capable of matching most high whiff combos in the game.
8A+B (Shoryuken!) - Recently it has been discovered that you can indeed iGDR out of it (I was proven wrong in the process.) so now the move has gotten a reason to be used apparently.
However, I still say it's bad and not necessary in his arsenal. This is why:
Has low damage comparing it with how unsafe it is, if you miss the iGDR on block you are screwed, even if you managed to pull the iGDR on block you will still get punished the damage is severely dampened after it hits so the iGDR followup deals weak damage after it and we simply have safer/better options for damage.
This move was simply good in the past. You could cancel it for BT B+K (Back in the SC2 days.), had great damage potential combined with iTS (Back in the SC3 days.) and I don't quite remember much of SC4 (I really hated that game.).
But this chapter is a whole different...
Uses - Has one decent damage wall combo but is somewhat inconsistent due to the camera angle/chances.
As for the top 10 worse moves:
10.) WS B+K (Also one of his best moves contrasted by how insanely unsafe it is.)
9.) 8A+B: 4B (Decent wall combo potential sadly surpassed by superior artillery.)
8.) DC A/DC K (Effective while it lasts.)
7.)22_88 [ B ] (Comebacks aren't always happy ones.)
6.) DC B (Oops.)
5.) WS A+B (Stepping is not allowed! Cheater!!)
4.) WS A+B BE (I'm worse than the above because I've wasted a bar!)
3.) DC B+K (Let me hit you, brah!)
2.) 4A+B (Psycho Crushaa!)
1.) 22_88A BE (An insult to us Cervantes players.)
What are your thoughts?
This may be common information to must of us but I believe there's always fresh bloods in search of wisdom. This thread will serve them into knowing what moves they should avoid at all cost. That way they can enrich their gameplay and become better at the game by discarding such defective moves.
I'll try to cover as most as I can. Also, keep in mind that some people may not agree with everything but that's good. That way we can stimulate our brains into a healthy discussion.
I'll start the list now and give you an in-depth of each one as giving my personal top 10 worst Cervantes moves.
DC B+K (Solar Flare) - I really consider Cervantes' DC game extremely weak in this game. We can't longer delay moves or do them sooner making his DC nothing but an extremely limited stance. Not mentioning that most followup in the exception of GDR are slow, visible and most important, way too risky.
Back in the days we could delay his moves to unimaginable heights, catching people of guard with random DC A UB's or GDR's. But no longer. I do understand that the same as Geo Da Ray, Solar Flare is one Cervantes signature moves but that's not enough to make it usable.
The move has no tracking at all and is very see-able. Against a good player is useless. Do it and expect to eat a launcher or Vertical Auto-GI's. This is probably not only Cervantes' most useless move out of DC but his entire movelist as well. Avoid at all cost!
Uses - None.
4A+B (Alpha 3's Shin Psycho Crusher) - To start this one, it simply looks badass. Makes you look pimping/gansta/swag/etc. when playing against beginners and makes you feel you are on another level of awesomeness. But in reality this is nothing but a suicidal move.
It's indeed one of the most obvious moves out there, the damage is weak compared to iGDR, startup is a little faster than SC4's but still slow as hell and lost it's BA properties, is extremely unsafe on block and very JG/GI/Stepped on reaction. Don't try this move even if your guts say otherwise. DON'T!
It may have its uses but it is definitely not meant for use in normal circumstances at all. I did, however, find a somewhat questionable way to use it. If carefully done while your back is kissing the ring's edge against a short ranged character it might just save you. This move tricks the game into believing you had just ring yourself out just to comeback from the pit (Camera changes). Also if they don't have any sort of vertical aGI or bar they have no option but to guard/just guard/step it, getting you out of the ring edge area. For the price of getting severely punished of course... If blocked, the move crossovers them in some cases. This solution is random and it may result in you RO'ing yourself out anyway (In some cases.).
Uses -Random RO avoidance madness, flashy victory katas.
WS A+B (Flying Dutchman) - This move was decent in the past. It was a series of uninterrupted machine thrusts with the possibility of becoming a BA if you mashed B 8 times while doing it before the last hit. It had nice damage and great speed. This time however, has been changed to become quite useless. It's damage is still good but, the big difference now is that is quite unsafe as last hit is easily step-able and you will eat a guaranteed launcher or a GI if they are feeling
modest.
The moves destroys guard pretty fast but since of the nature of the last hit. It's something I wouldn't recommend. Even if you manage to break their guard, you don't get much which is really a waste unless you are going for the kill of course. Need to check the meter gain of this move though. But don't think that would be enough either.
Uses - Guard burst for the kill.
WS A+B BE (Fata Morgana Aka Flying Dutchman on Steroids?) - Not really. This move shares all of it's lesser version's properties with the addition of another series of machine thrusts instead of a single last thrust, also these get BA properties. The sad bad is that the same as WS A+B the last hits are also easily stepped. Also these last hits NEVER break guard, only the first ones do. So no big damage if you burst them, just the remaining hits of the moves which should give you less than 65 which isn't worth it at all the meter. You spend a bar and all you get is a step-able move with a damage limit of 65?
This is what JF Flying Dutchman was in the past with the exception of being useless and unsafe.
Uses - Same as above and hate them so much.
22_88[ B ] (Dread Pressure) - A nostalgia move. This move's name was indeed meaningful in the past. It was simply scary. In SC2 it was fast and had 100% tracking, in SC3 it lost it's tracking but the hitboxes were so outrageous that stepping it was often tedious, all that without mentioning the endless 1A mixups and high damage the move had. Namco decided not to include it in SC4 (Which made me cry.) and now is back but as garbage. They should have just leave out of this game if they knew it was going to be bad. That way we should have gotten a new move instead (Maybe.).
The move is way slower than it's various counterparts, damage is weak as well, has no tracking at all and most important, it only has two stages of charging which means that you cant mix it up. Charge it a little more than expected and it's already too late.
Uses - Normal version is useful and has clean hit properties but UB is suicidal. Maybe useful during wakeup but I really doubt it.
22_88A BE (LOL where are my frames!?) - This move is simply a joke. Makes me wonder whom was the idea of such. Not much to cover here as it's quite simple. This move is -infinite frames after A on counter hit! They can do pretty much anything with you after taking the hit. It's a pity as the only thing that burst guard is the last BT B+K-like hit for a guaranteed CH 44A+B. Really a shame but move discarded.
Uses - Useful for when you want to waste bar...oh wait!
DC B (Geo Da Ray) - This move is probably the annoyance of every single Cervantes player. This is what we get when we miss the iGDR's execution and what get after it isn't even prettier. Granted, it has great damage and covers a large amount of space. But the fact that is quite unsafe and is the reason of so many self RO's is enough to be afraid of it. We simply hate you, GDR.
Uses - Possibly Post-GI when it comes out accidentally off iGDR. Still good in that sense...
DC A/DC K (The joke that unfortunately gets old.) - These move aren't useless, they have it uses but when you find someone that knows Cervantes very well. You will begin to question their usefulness at best. Both are quite slow and see-able once you get used to their animations. What makes this worse is the aforementioned Dread Charge Stance.
I would say on wakeup his DC game is decent but since we cant mess with DC's timing and the moves themselves have no good tracking at all I say it's quite useless. We cant mix it up, instead we have to guess what the opponent will do. Lastly, if they lack good reaction skill then they can easily option select it with ease once they know the exact details of the followups.
Just back in the days we could wait and see what they were going to do and do the best followup accordingly but now all that is gone. So that pretty much kills it imo.
Uses - Probably on wakeup at times in the hopes of landing it on a disoriented opponent.
WS B+K (Tornado Swell) - To clarify, this is an exception, this move is not completely bad. The only thing that puts it in the list is the fact that is the most unsafe move in the game. You throw it at random and say goodbye to a round. You need to be extremely cautions when using this kind of technology. Otherwise expect to lose a lot!
Uses - This is in my opinion the best High whiff punisher in the entire game. A single move that has clean hit properties capable of matching most high whiff combos in the game.
8A+B (Shoryuken!) - Recently it has been discovered that you can indeed iGDR out of it (I was proven wrong in the process.) so now the move has gotten a reason to be used apparently.
However, I still say it's bad and not necessary in his arsenal. This is why:
Has low damage comparing it with how unsafe it is, if you miss the iGDR on block you are screwed, even if you managed to pull the iGDR on block you will still get punished the damage is severely dampened after it hits so the iGDR followup deals weak damage after it and we simply have safer/better options for damage.
This move was simply good in the past. You could cancel it for BT B+K (Back in the SC2 days.), had great damage potential combined with iTS (Back in the SC3 days.) and I don't quite remember much of SC4 (I really hated that game.).
But this chapter is a whole different...
Uses - Has one decent damage wall combo but is somewhat inconsistent due to the camera angle/chances.
As for the top 10 worse moves:
10.) WS B+K (Also one of his best moves contrasted by how insanely unsafe it is.)
9.) 8A+B: 4B (Decent wall combo potential sadly surpassed by superior artillery.)
8.) DC A/DC K (Effective while it lasts.)
7.)22_88 [ B ] (Comebacks aren't always happy ones.)
6.) DC B (Oops.)
5.) WS A+B (Stepping is not allowed! Cheater!!)
4.) WS A+B BE (I'm worse than the above because I've wasted a bar!)
3.) DC B+K (Let me hit you, brah!)
2.) 4A+B (Psycho Crushaa!)
1.) 22_88A BE (An insult to us Cervantes players.)
What are your thoughts?
