Gameplay System Info Thread (SC5)

mikosu

mikosu

Goderator of pink hearts
Life Bar
  • Health is still 240. Characters live at 0 health, so it is effectively 241.
  • When a character has 25% health left (60 points) the life bar turns yellow.
  • When a character has 10% health left (24 points) all attacks that normally do 20 damage or less will do half damage. This is based on base damage, not damage with bonuses (counter hit damage, for example).
Critical Edge (CE)
  • All are done with :2::3::6::2::3::6::A+B+K: and cost one bar of meter.
  • Can also be done :2::3::2::3::A+B+K: or :2::6::2::6::A+B+K:
  • Game does not accept inputs during the flash. (The term "flash" here is borrowed from UMvC3 and refers to the close-up animation during a character's CE.)
  • The initial hit of a CE cannot be Guard Impacted (GI). Additional followups, however, can be Guard Impacted (example- using GI on Siegfried's CE at a distance).
  • CEs can be Just Guarded (JG).
  • Nightmare's CE is treated as a regular auto-guard impact (aGI) and does not work on throws, unblockables (UB), nor other CEs.
  • The fastest CE is α Patroklos' at i8. Most CEs range from i12 to i14.
Just Guard
  • Performed by tapping and releasing :G: within 4 frames but within 1-6 frames of an attack connecting.
  • Works on everything (including UBs) except throws and throw CEs.
  • The earliest you can repeat JG is 29 frames after the last time you pressed guard. (credit to noodalls)
  • JG can be performed during Ukemi, but is difficult.
  • Generally, JG removes a move's blockstun and replaces it with a special "JG" freeze. As a result, moves with long blockstuns tend to be worse on JG than moves with short blockstuns. For example, Nightmare's 66B is -23 on JG while Mitsu's 8A+B is -8, despite both moves being +2 on normal guard.
Critical Gauge
  • Critical Gauge charges up to a max of 2 bars.
  • Meter gain is achieved through attacking, blocking, JGing, ukeming and even whiffing attacks.
  • Whiffed moves build 20% of the meter they would gain on hit.
  • Blocked moves build 40% of the meter they would gain on hit.
  • The opponent gains 40% of the meter you gain on hit.
  • Blocking gains no meter.
  • On a scale of 120 = 1 bar of meter (1 Critical Edge) and 60 = 1/2 a bar of meter (1 Brave Edge), Just Guard and Ukemi both build 10 meter.
  • Some states won't allow meter gain though your opponent will gain some. Ex: Tira GS B+K on successful impact.
  • Damage scaling in combos does not affect the amount of meter gained.
Guard Gauge
  • Guard gauge goes from yellow to red as you block more attacks. Guarding too many attacks results in a guard burst. Guard burst gives you counter hit (CH) damage and properties during the 60 frame stun.
  • Both gauges are unaffected between rounds. Make use of this to set up advantageous situations. Ex. w/guard gauge: Opponent is down to their last few points of life and flashing red. Throw them to win to keep their gauge red in the next round. Ex. w/ critical gauge: As Tira hit the knocked out opponent with 236K BE for a guaranteed mood change.
Guard Impact
  • :4::A+B+K:. Works on all hit levels (high, mid, low) but does not work on throws, UBs, or CEs and costs half of a meter. Impacts from frames 2 to 11.
  • Gives +27 frames on successful impact.
  • All attacks within the advantage window are guaranteed if the opponent has no meter to re-GI.
  • It is possible to perform a JG during a GI's recovery. This can be used to counter the opponent's GI → CE by whiffing a GI of your own and JGing their CE.
Movement
  • Sidestep (single tap in any direction) leaves you unable to guard for 20 frames (no more step-G from previous games--Voldo is an exception in Blind Stance only). However, it can canceled into attacks, throws, and GIs.
  • Quick Step (QS) is a double tap in any direction except :4: and :6: within 6 frames of each press. Covers more distance than a regular sidestep.
  • Getting hit during a step results in a Run Counter. These function similarly to attack counter hits. Backstep counters cause an additional 20% damage while sidestep counters cause 10%.
  • QS can be buffered into the recovery of an attack causing the character to show the characteristic wind trails but travel a short distance. This version of QS can be canceled into :G:.
Jumping
  • Jump :G:: 33 frames
  • Jump :G: → Jump :G: (65 frames, first jump is cancelled on F32 into second jump)
  • Jump → standing attack no longer starts on i27 of the jump like it did in SCIV, instead the jump → standing attack now begins on F33, same as all other actions besides jump → jump (credit to Slayer_X64)
Clean Hit
  • A random chance of a 25% damage increase for a single hit.
  • Has three probability types: A, B, C, from highest to lowest.
  • Clean Hit A will Clean Hit 30-40% of the time; B, 15-20%; and C, 5-10%.
  • Clean Hits "stale"; if a move is used too much in a match, the probability of Clean Hit activation goes down.
  • Clean Hit rankings for moves are listed in the Wiki.
Instant Full Crouch, While Rising, and Recovery Crouch Cancel
  • Buffering an iFC move from neutral standing position takes 5 extra frames
  • Buffering an iWR move from neutral standing position takes 5 extra frames (credit to Slayer_X64)
  • RCC is performed by pressing any direction except :1:, :2:, or :3: then performing an attack during the startup of the dash that was buffered. This allows attacks that can only be done from standing to be performed quickly after a move that recovers in FC, allowing certain combo possibilities that don't work otherwise, such as Yoshimitsu's CH iMCF → RCC 3B.
Throw Breaks
To break a throw, you must press the corresponding throw break (always A or B) within a set window. For normal throws, this window is 13 frames.
For command throws, this window is 9 frames.

Depending on how early the throw break is inputted, one of three things will happen.
  • The character being thrown will shrug the opponent's hands off them (fastest throw break). This puts the player who broke the throw at +3. This type of throw break can only occur on normal throws and will not happen when breaking a command throw or Brave Edge throw.
  • The character being thrown stumbles backwards but does not fall over. This puts the character who broke the throw at -3. For Algol, this throw break is replaced by an animation where he teleports backwards without using his throne.
  • The character falls over in an ukemiable knockdown. For Algol, this throw break is replaced by an animation where he teleports very far backwards in his throne. This puts Algol at -6.
Certain characters have attack throws that can be broken. These include:
Xiba 1_3A+B
Nightmare and Siegfried FC A+G_B+G
Dampierre PB A+G_B+G
Mitsurugi MST A+G_B+G

Certain characters have "mashable" throws, which usually increases the number of hits of the throw. These include:
Patroklos 66B+G (mashing increases number of hits, can be countermashed)
Dampierre PB A+G_B+G_B (mashing increases number of hits, can be countermashed)
Dampierre Left Side Throw (mashing decreases chance of entering Poker Bluff, cannot be countermashed)
Raphael 66A+G (mashing increases self-heal, cannot be countermashed)

Throw breaks operate on an input priority system. The system gives priority for A over B, B over K, and all over G in cases of simultaneous inputs. For example, A+B, A+B+K, and A+K will break A throws, B+K will break B throws, and you can also mash A or B while holding G to break throws. It is impossible to attempt both an A and B break at the same time.
 
Can you give me more details on QS, it doesnt seem to work like that at all to me.
1) How did you figure out its within 6 frames press?( just curious)
2) doesnt seem to have any extra evasion nor ability to block. Despite all the tests there is no difference.
Sometimes (I havent found a way to consistantly reproduce it) the animation of "quick" movement appear and then instant block happen, but in fact it doesnt step at all. Even worse this seem to be a bug - if opponent is atacking you at this moment the game will think you are ducking or jumping, depending on wheather you used 22 or 88, so mid moves will hit you.
3) this game is full of hitbox glitches T_T
 
  • QS can be buffered into the recovery of an attack causing the character to show the characteristic wind trails but travel a short distance. This version of QS can be canceled into :G:.
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Still have a lot of stuff to test, but so far it looks like:
QS cannot be buffered into recoveries
QS cannot be cancelled with G early, it seems totally similiar to normal step in this regard.
QS has a slighly better evasion than normal step, i.e some situations where normal step will not work, QS will step. Actually it works similiary to how step worked in SC4, except you have to double tap.
 
Very informative, ty!
For completion mentioning the advantage you get from JGing would be awesome, just like you did with GI.
 
Belial: I got all the QS info from the Future Press guide. If your testibg has proven otherwise I will remove it.

windirein: The advantage granted depends solely on the move that you JG.
 
mikosu said:
Excellent work ka_kui. The Frenchie guide is wrong again. I'll just test everything myself from now on.
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yeah i think the guide is not complete, I read some scans XD...and they lack some techniques and combos, i think they maked the guide with no much time, but is a good guide, but have some errors ;)
 
Ok did anyone come up with QS properties? I've already encountered a few situations you can step normally but cant QS, which is either stupid or a bug. So as of now I dont see any point in QSing or am doing it wrong (
 
I am new too this but I often see numbers with addition or subtraction signs next to them. Like: 6+ or -2. I usually see them referred to as frames advantages or disadvantages. Please explain to me what this means.
 
I'm not sure if this deserves its own thread so I'll post it here, if osu or a mod think it should be moved, then so be it.

I've been trying to test the amount of meter built by different events and figure out how to represent the amount in a standardized way. I think I've got a model that is accurate and reasonably understandable now and would like to share it as well as related findings based on it.

If one represents the amount of meter built as whole integer number points (which I will call MP from this point forward) with 1 MP being 1/30 of a segment, 1/60 required for half a bar and 1/120 for one bar, then it seems like you can cover the results of anything that happens in the game.

So how much MP does hitting someone give you? Well it turns out its dependent on the move, not how much damage it does or some other easy calculation. The amount of MP built does not scale or decrease for being part of a combo so long as hits are registered. BE and CE moves generally don't build any MP unless a brave edge can be and is input after a hit is registered. The minimum MP made when a move hits is 2 , disregarding quake stuns and throw attempts (which both appear to build 1 MP).

How much MP does being hit give you? The general rule seems to be 40% or 2/5 of the MP that the move opponent is hitting you with builds for them on hit, rounded down and to a minimum of 1. Being hit with a quake stun appears to build no MP. BEs and CEs while not building MP for the person doing them do build some not insignificant amount for the person being hit by them, based on the move itself.

How much MP does a blocked hit give you? Generally 40% or 2/5 the MP it builds on hit, rounded down and to a minimum of 2.

And Defensive options? Guarding a hit appears to build no MP, jG builds 10 per instance and GI builds nothing. Breaking a throw appears to build 10 or 11, I haven't nailed down why it does one or the other although it doesn't seem to be based on the throw itself or whether the throw was broken early or late. Teching a knockdown builds 10 meter.

What about whiffed attacks? They build 20% or 1/5 of what the move builds on hit, rounded down and to a minimum of 1. Whiffed throws appear to build nothing.

What about CH? Doesn't seem to add anything unless the move gets an extra hit/attack throw/ otherwise different animation on CH. The amount of extra build is dependent on that specific move.

And clean hit? Doesn't seem to effect it that I can tell, haven't tested exhaustively though.

JFs? Depends on the move, some JFs builds more than non-JF counterpart, others don't.

If you want to reproduce anything, or test for yourself, an algorithm to finding the properties of most events is: set meter in training to 0%, produce event |n| times then walk backwards and whiff K |y| times ( y is the number of times until you see the flash of the meter caused by completing the first segment.) The MP build for the event is then 30 = nX + y, solve for X.

A couple MP building moves of interest are for example mitsu NH 2K BE B, builds 11(0*0*11) and NM 2A+B attack throw, which builds 43(8*35).
 
Hi, can someone explain to me the bonuses of Just Guard? namely, meter gain and how many frames it knocks off recovery (if any). Thanks
 
From what I have heard, you do gain meter and u increase 5 more frames on opp's block frame.

However, I do think that what JG does is bypass the block recovery you have, which means you get more frames against moves that are more committed, and you get almost nothing when against a poke.
 
Belial said:
1) How did you figure out its within 6 frames press?( just curious)
Click to expand...
In an early build, we were really lucky because they left in a debug frame thingy by accident. I figured out how it worked and tested a bunch of stuff before we had to give it back. All input stuff, like throw break windows, JF timing, and JG timing.
mikosu said:
Excellent work ka_kui. The Frenchie guide is wrong again. I'll just test everything myself from now on.
Click to expand...
I can't believe this. I wrote that CE could be Just Guarded, I just checked my own work from when we wrote the thing. I think that means that what I wrote about Just Guarding CEs was EDITED OUT. I am pretty fucked off right now.
 
general frame data that i want to just dump here:

jump G: i33

jump G jumpG(i65, first jump is cancelled on i32 into second jump)

jump -> standing attack no longer starts on i27 of the jump like it did in SCIV, instead the jump -> standing attack now begins on i33, same as all other actions besides jump -> jump

buffering an iFC move from neutral standing position: takes 5 extra frames

buffering an iWR move from neutral standing position: takes 5 extra frames
 
To break a throw, you must press the corresponding throw break (always A or B) within a set window. For normal throws, this window is 13 frames.
For command throws, this window is 9 frames.

Depending on how early the throw break is input, one of three things will happen.
  • The character being thrown will shrug the opponent's hands off them (fastest throw break). This puts the player who broke the throw at +3. This type of throw break can only occur on normal throws and will not happen when breaking a command throw or Brave Edge throw.
  • The character being thrown stumbles backwards but does not fall over. This puts the character who broke the throw at -3. For Algol, this throw break is replaced by an animation where he teleports backwards without using his throne.
  • The character falls over in an ukemiable knockdown. For Algol, this throw break is replaced by an animation where he teleports very far backwards in his throne. This puts Algol at -6.
 
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