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Hate Speech: Sharing is Caring (For Yourself)

Discussion in 'News & Announcements' started by Hates, Oct 24, 2011.

  • by Hates, Oct 24, 2011 at 7:07 PM
    • Administrator
    • Premium Supporter

    Hates Jerk.

    This week’s glut of news—character reveals, hands-on impressions, and even a release date—left me, as many of you, impatient for more. There’s really no antidote for it; the more I find out about SC5, the more I find myself drifting off into happy fantasies of the horrible, borderline unjustifiable things I’ll be doing to you people once the game drops. It also got me thinking generally about the ways in which information of all sorts spreads throughout our community. Everything from juicy pre-release teases to advanced post-release tech comes to us through the same vectors: our fellow players. Whether by attending an event with a demo, working hard in practice mode, or, often enough, just getting lucky, many of us will find ourselves in possession of information that might confer an almost insurmountable short-term advantage. I’m here today, though, to convince you that sitting on information, no matter its short-term benefit, is almost never a good idea.

    ceeTD.jpg
    The Wolves are you when you share, and the carcass are the STSFN guys

    An astute reader PMed me not long ago with a list of what he felt were the qualities of a good player. One of those qualities, “[t]each other players things they do wrong. And how to improve (in a nice way),” is utterly pedestrian here. Skilled players, if they’re interested at all in winning, have an obligation to do precisely this. “But Hates,” you whimper, “when I teach my friends how to get out of my [insert setup, tech trap, mixup, or non-guaranteed pseudocombo here] they start beating me, and I’m playing to win!”

    True, gimmicks, parlor tricks, and all sorts of smoke-and-mirrors crap will float you along for
    a little while with local competition. Hell, stumbling upon something cheap early enough might even lead to a decent showing at a major. That said, relying on the ignorance of others is not a viable long-term strategy. There are some players out there, though I won’t name names, whose entire strategies consist of a desperate struggle to remain one lame trick ahead of their competition. This sort of play is ultimately a house of cards. It will fall and you will fail.

    knPh1.jpg
    Ahem

    Enlightened Self-Interest

    Sharing information primarily works to combat this by keeping you honest. For example, when I uncover a strong tactic or cheeseball trick, I make certain to at least tell everyone with whom I’m practicing regularly. If it’s particularly nasty, I’ll share it with the community at large. I wouldn’t do it for recognition or some other form of retrograde nerd fame (not when writing a column is far more satisfying, anyway) because that’s just akin to being the “combo video guy” or “that dude who beat 3 opponents with Rock at Evo.”

    4ro9O.jpg
    I left Yoda and Taki out on purpose.

    If that sort of thing appeals to you, great. Make yourself a little trophy and put it on the shelf next to all the other ones you undoubtedly have labeled “Most Improved” or “Participant” if that’s what it takes to get information flowing. The reason I do it (and why players truly invested in pushing their skills to the absolute limit should do it, too) is so I’ll be ready when I finally face off in a tournament against someone who knows all of my silly little tricks. Rather than being worried about whether our opponent has experience against our characters, we can move forward with extreme confidence.

    Moreover, sharing strategies saves both time and energy. Think for a moment: sometimes we’re
    all “too close” to a particular strategy and therefore fail to see its flaws. Most of us have at some point invested a great deal of time and energy into perfecting what I’ll generously call non-optimal tactics.

    Something may strike you as a borderline degenerate strategy (see last week’s column), but another player might be able to crack it in almost no time. Rather than wasting time trying to think through every possible scenario or, even worse, building an entire playstyle around something that simply doesn’t work, sharing tech essentially allows you to outsource your thinking and problem solving. If I tell five people about something I discovered, I’ve multiplied my ability to test that tactic by at least a factor of five, and probably more if they go on to tell others. This, in turn, will bring to light all of the flaws in one’s game plan and give you the opportunity to address them.

    Non optimal tactics meets someone who hit training mode. Watch and learn.

    If a tactic is truly sound, you’ll be able to use it effectively irrespective of whether your opponent is
    actually familiar with it. In fact, it’s often the case that with a little practice you will be able to use your opponent’s knowledge against him. This may seem counterintuitive at first, but recall how frustrating it can be to play an honest to goodness button masher once you’re beginning to figure out what you’re doing. You can certainly steamroll a masher, but you can’t really mix one up because they simply don’t know enough about the game to realize when they should be on the defensive. Pushing your tactics out into the community goes a long way toward inoculating yourself against losing to someone who doesn’t know enough to realize he should be afraid.

    In the end, much of this is about scale. If you consider your overall pool of opponents to be the
    computer, your mom, and whoever on the block is brave enough to venture down into your basement apartment, then by all means, be stingy with your knowledge. Those of us interested in competing at the highest levels, however, must consider everyone with a copy of the game as a potential opponent, in which case it’s outright foolishness to put all of your faith in the ignorance of others. The community we have is a valuable resource. It’s important we use it to help ourselves, even if others benefit during the process.

    Work Smarter, Not Harder, Redux

    Before closing, I want to mention the inverse of the problem I discussed above—namely, the people who want to “figure things out on [their] own.” Again, this community is a resource. There’s no special prize for reinventing the wheel, so it’s foolish not to take advantage of the work done by others in terms of figuring out optimal strategies and combos. Never take anything as gospel, of course, but do not under any circumstances succumb to misplaced pride. It’s antithetical to a winning attitude. There’s no point in debating who discovered what, who ripped what off, and the like, because ultimately whoever uses these tactics best ends up winning. Save brain cycles on discovery and use them for devising new applications whenever possible, then let us know about them. The net result is that everyone gets better. Work smart and you’ll stay ahead of the competition.

    Homework:

    If you’re part of a regular scene, fill people in on your most cherished tactics. See if they can’t force you to step your game up. Or rant at me about sandbagging. Sandbagging is way cool.

Comments

Discussion in 'News & Announcements' started by Hates, Oct 24, 2011.

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  1. Mamoru_Hasukage
    I myself try not to make a trick or gimmick. Honestly, I just watch how some people play and try to combine what I see and make something that is fun. I try my best not to use the same attack over and over (but hey what are you gonna do? XD). Why I like soul calibur so much: The possibilities with even one character are abundant. Helping each other out is just part of the fun.
  2. d3v
    It depends on how powerful and/or arguably metagame changing said "trick" is.

    Consider my previously mentioned example of the "Valle CC" in SFA2. That trick, being a nigh unblockable setup into a highly damaging custom combo, was powerful enough that it changed the metagame after it was discovered so Alex in a way was right to keep it to himself until debuting it in B3 '96.

    The question then is on whether or not such powerful metagame changing tactics will be found in future Soul Cal games (especially considering the major changes in V, which brings in mechanics that have traditionally been the source of such tactics in 2D fighters).
  3. Runis
    You can tell the entire world all your setups and chances are, come nationals, people are gonna forget.
    I've posted every single Hilde tech-trap remotely possible (almost) and still I managed to gimmick victories off of people I've already explained it to before.
    (Point of note - if Hilde knocks you down, just don't get up.)
    The thing is that if you find something new, even if someone knows about it, if they've never gone against it before, its still gonna smack them in the face and you're gonna thank them for falling for it.
    My advantage to telling everyone my traps is that certain unnamed well dressed persons remarkably similar to the current president of the US looked into it and found out flaws and renditions to these.
    That and it was hella funny listening to the anger seething the first time he sparta-kicked someone over the half-wall during a tourney/ranbat/event/whatever.
  4. krisnaga91
    What do you mean you left Taki out on purpose!?!? lol
  5. Hates
    Fair point. Most Calibur stuff, even SC3 VCs, SC2 VRC, yadda yadda, hasn't really been as fundamentally game-altering as that. Most of it boils down to marginal advantages or just pure chicanery, which is why I stand by my assertions in a general sense. I'll happily stipulate, though, that if you discover something so damn good that everyone has to do it in order to even have a chance to compete, sit on it. =)

    In fairness, some of that's a Hilde issue, too. Learning to deal with Hilde's tech traps is really something people are more likely to approach after they get comfortable dealing with her conventional doom combo starters...
  6. Saga
    Good point Hates, in case some people may forget: Tournament actually the biggest Sharing Center ;).
    However, while the idea is beautiful and logical, people's mind is not as simple, if everyone could care for each other, there shouldn't be any war and conflicts, that's sad but it's the truth no one can deny.
    That said, I would be happy and smile like a kid if I can figure out some Zomg! pawn! combo/tricks/tactics/... then watch the others acknowledge it then use it in an event lol.

    -Saga-:sc2maxi1:
  7. Scamp
    You also forgot Tira in the Tier Martyr Bait.
    Nightterror92 likes this.
  8. IdleMind
    He didn't forget, he just feared the backlash of angry deluded Tira players.
  9. Hates
    Scamp'll cut somebody. Real talk.
  10. sarriana
    haha the indiana jones clip is awesome and so fitting :)
    Sp1d3r likes this.
  11. BrewtusBibulus
    Sandbagging is awesome. Without that Aris would never have won the world championships. Results counter your logic!
  12. Nirf
    6K is by far the best punisher for a -16 move that Yoshi has. 6K2K is like 50 damage and knockdown, i15. 6K is basically his standard punisher. What else would he use? His launchers are all at least i17 as far as I know. I don't know that that many characters can really punish a -16 move that badly.

    Also, I'm not a Soph player but my understanding is that its really really hard to consistently TAS B moves that are -16. At least, I seem to remember reading somewhere that even very good Soph players will usually go for TAS B on -17 at the minimum. AS B is very easy to get though.

    I play Voldo who in theory has one of the best punishers for -16 moves, 66:B. But in practice I find that unless the 1B is overused and I anticipate it and I'm really on the edge of my seat ready to punish, the blockstun on it is fairly short and I can't get 66:B consistently. I'm sure other Voldo players can get this consistently though.

    I suspect there are probably worse moves than Sieg's 1B that consistently go unpunished.
    Age_of_Truth likes this.
  13. GreatOne1939
    Psssh! Try telling Ramon that! Lol!
  14. InfestedLoli
    Ramon is special.
    greatone1939 likes this.
  15. GreatOne1939
    Yes he is. That big sexy bitch!
  16. Signia
    Those are actually the best punishes.

    The reason you don't get TAS B'd for it is the blockstun is short. It's hard enough punishing anything -16 with TAS B. 1B isn't a gimmick, lol. You think I didn't know it was unsafe? I was tired that night from the tourney and rave. I did challenge you to the money match regardless because of the matchup and the fact that I'm cocky bastard that was salty about casuals.

    I think you overestimate -16 with that blockstun LOL it's almost as bad as trying to punish Ivy 9B.
    LostProvidence likes this.
  17. Heaton
    Oh man, ya'll salty. That part in parenthesis is kind of important:
    Also, on not punishing with TAS B, I'll give you, the buffer is a bit tricky, but it's A) at least 50 damage, B) up to 80 damage if you're a pro and get just frames all day, C) safe, and D) Soul Crushes in 15. There's no way I can step it, even if I wasn't at -16 - I can't fathom a reason NOT to try to go for it.

    But whatever, if you think I'm overestimating the frames, more reason to throw it out.

    EDIT: Also the original focus of my post was that pretty much nobody punished it all, not that lolo and Omega can't punish it for much.
  18. Nirf
    Heaton, there are a ton of moves that almost never get punished even in tournaments, so it's really not that amazing. It's just you probably don't know the frame data of every single move for that many characters, so you aren't aware of it. There are probably -16 moves that you rarely punish with B6. E.g. Voldo's 3A, some people whore this out and it's -16. Kilik's 1B is -16, I never seen this punished. Etc.
    Signia likes this.
  19. damn-I-Suck
    I always knew 1B was unsafe the first day I used it! I didn't know or care about the frame data, but if the AI punishes it, then it's unsafe. Not his best move, not his worst. I only throw that move out when I think my opponent will be crouched. It's a "once in a blue moon" kind of move for me.
  20. HajimeOwari
    I can finally contribute. As Lolo displayed recently, Yoshi is one solid character with a ridiculous amount of gimmicks as well. Playing him efficiently became finding a balance of playing intelligently (read: using brain power) and capitalizing on the ignorance of the opponent.

    Had I not shared all my information with NorCal, I would likely be a gimmick-reliant player today, as opposed to a thinking one. I'm sure Hates can attest to this, since he had to deal with the mounds of bullshit I threw at him.

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