Into prep analysis

Discussion in 'Raphael' started by NGKrush, Feb 2, 2012.

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  1. Hudathan

    Hudathan [09] Warrior

    The window before SE is huge like Xbox. Seems like Namco really wants us to stuff those 2A attempts with more Prep BB's and everything else with SE/retreat.
  2. Von_Blackhardt

    Von_Blackhardt [06] Combatant

    I'm not talking about prep4, I'm talking about the auto SE that occurs on certain attacks while in prep.
  3. JodorowskyVIII

    JodorowskyVIII [02] Apprentice

    If the attack is high, you auto-evade, it works on kicks, stabs, and horizontals.
    Von_Blackhardt likes this.
  4. Von_Blackhardt

    Von_Blackhardt [06] Combatant

    Thank you. Is there a specific window for it to occur, or is it any time during prep?
  5. JodorowskyVIII

    JodorowskyVIII [02] Apprentice

    For me, it work as soon as you are in prep, until the end.
    Sadly, people rarely use high attacks when you are in prep, and you rarely stay in prep until it end by itself.
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    piggy RIP Team Edward

    PSN:
    dmg_piggy
    Pyrrha can AK to force SE from prep, and K will hit you before any of your moves could save your ass. I'm sure other characters have H/M or H?L string that would do the same.
  6. Hudathan

    Hudathan [09] Warrior

    It can be pretty counter-intuitive for people who haven't particularly worked on their Raph match ups, but still nice for us to have multiple plans when we make a read on the opponent's familiarity with Prep. I went into SE off 3(B)~Prep BB on hit and got counter-hit Pyrrha stabbed before I got SE A out. It was more of a panic reaction from her but it still works, so in that situation you gotta just take the guaranteed damage and stay safe, among other similar situations.
  7. Leonyx

    Leonyx [07] Duelist

    XBL:
    Leonyx3
    Not sure if this is the best place for asking this, but when would it be a good idea to use Prep 4? I haven't really put it in my game unless I'm trying to move back during the stance. I'm thinking that it's best to use when you anticipate a short range move or a move that it GI's (I forget which, but I think it's horizontals?), but how would you anticipate them or train your opponent to attempt them?
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    WuHT Premium Moderator

    PSN:
    Trolt
    So far, i'm using it more for the spacing as I have not been reliably fast enough to reflexively GI any verticals from the opponents if I whiff my 3(B). The reward for a prep4 aGI into prep K(BE) or prep K into a dash and grab/22B mixup is pretty sweet but don't force it.

    If you anticipate a short range attack, SE B needs to be executed immediately (u can't take the time to look and react) and you'll beat enemy 2A clean for massive damage. Raph's most reliably counter against 2A is probably his prep A+B which is a really high risk answer to something so low risk from the opponent. 2As will beat prep BB off his transistions from block.

    Though this seems kind of weird, considere after sometimes you connect prep attacks into prep re-entry (like prepB(B)~) you let raph walk forward sometimes to hopefully disguise the frames when you are actually a threat (as well as following their side steps).
  8. Leonyx

    Leonyx [07] Duelist

    XBL:
    Leonyx3
    Alright, I'll just stick to using it sparingly then. I wish there was a way to back step after hitting 6BB(BE) and stuff like that. I always feel out of position when after I hit them with it. Thankfully, I don't think I've been caught on it yet, but I feel like it's punishable.
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    WuHT Premium Moderator

    PSN:
    Trolt
    What do you mean ? They'll be by your feet hurt after taken 70+ damage.
  9. darkfender

    darkfender [07] Duelist

    do you use pre in opponent face a lot or are you talking about a specific 2A?
    Preps at tip always evades 2A with SE i nver had that 2A problem....
    Is there something i am missing ._.?
  10. Leonyx

    Leonyx [07] Duelist

    XBL:
    Leonyx3
    It makes me feel too close to the opponent. With Raphael, I take extra care in my positioning so that I don't get punished for using certain moves and so that I have more offensive options. When I hit them with a 22B,3B,prep BB(BE) combo I feel like I'm too close (particularly when it pushes the opponent to a wall, which isn't hard since it pushes back so far) and that I can be punished by a fast WR move (like the new umbrella). Maybe I'm just being paranoid though...
  11. KowtowRobinson

    KowtowRobinson [10] Knight


    Being at close range with them standing, and being at close range with them on the ground having just eaten your main damage source are two different scenarios entirely. If you're that worried, focus on moves that push the opponent back out to range for your oki.

    11K and 1B can be mixed up with similar animations, both will push people away if they're caught siderolling. If they stand and eat 1B, they eat the same stun that 3A gives on CH, which resets your range with great frame advantage. If they stand and eat 11K, you can frame trap with 6BB, putting them right back in the same situation if they eat it.

    66a+b will either push back a bit on block, or launch them over you, where BT B+K will reset your range. In a pinch, you've got one of the best 2A's in the game, giving you great advantage on hit. If they eat 2A and try to move or attack, you get 6BB on CH again.

    I know we've been all about keeping your range and not relying on prep shenanigans which just move you closer, but oki is not the same situation. That's still a chance for you to press your advantage.
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    hotnikkelz johNNy blaZe

    Close range is where it's at. How else i'm supposed to choppe bitches
    JodorowskyVIII and Hudathan like this.
  12. Leonyx

    Leonyx [07] Duelist

    XBL:
    Leonyx3
    Alright, thanks. That's all very good information for me to step up my game a bit.

    I guess my main concern is having them be right against the wall, but I suppose I have 1B for that issue. Thanks again!
  13. KowtowRobinson

    KowtowRobinson [10] Knight

    1B on hit acts exactly like 3A on CH. Which includes the wallsplat properties. =)
  14. Leonyx

    Leonyx [07] Duelist

    XBL:
    Leonyx3
    It looks like 1B is more useful than I thought. I guess it's a nice advancing move that doesn't put you in Prep right away.
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    WuHT Premium Moderator

    PSN:
    Trolt
    while it is a manageable -6 on block, keep in mind that it is one of raph's slower moves.
  15. Leonyx

    Leonyx [07] Duelist

    XBL:
    Leonyx3
    I'll remember that.

    (Where are you guys getting the frame data from? I haven't found it here...)
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