Discussion in 'Soulcalibur Tactics' started by Fuzzieviking, Jan 31, 2012.
Just got "Like A Flowing Stream".
The computer JG Maxi's B+KBBBA and that shit looked sexy. It slowed the move down so it looked like it was showing me the JF.
I think the timing is too strict. Given that every move for every character will have different speeds, ranges and such, it's a heck of a tall order to expect players to learn to JG in this way. Obviously some will and some have, but I dont think it's smart game design to put a really critical tool out of the reach of the average player. It's not even something you can practise easily; there's no decent tutorial for it. It's trial and error.
It's sad that japanese fighting game design revolves more around complexity of input and timing than actual player interaction. One of the best fighting games ever made was Fight Night 3 simply because it's simple: you punch, you duck, you dodge, you combo. You didn't need to just guard, you didn't need to learn hundreds of sweaty inputs with precision timing and such like. You had only to outguess and out think your opponent. When the controls get in the way there's a problem. This, imo, is a problem. JG is not just difficult, it's such a tiny windo that it's needlessly hard. Even regular GI depends on you reading your opponent correctly because again you need to time the input correctly but it's a lot easier than JG (relatively speaking).
I agree entirely. In fact i'd go so far as to say a lot of the GI moves are wonky in this way. Some GI moves will work on a given attack while others just don't.
If you didn't have to release G before the move hit, there would be no disadvantage to trying JG on every single move. As it is now, you actually have to commit to JGing, you can't JG and then G, as it will defeat the JG attempt.
I also don't like the fact that if your not an execution wizard, your shit-outa-luck when it comes to JG. SC should be about out-smarting your opponent, not a contest to see who has the best timing.
JG is too fucking hard, period. Patch to make the window bigger please. I've been playing SC for 8 years, and I can't even do it. This is a huge set-back for newbies.
I've hit JG online twice now.
Just keep trying. The window is actually pretty damn big. The game would possibly be broken if this were any easier to do.
It is more about prediction than absolute reflexes.
JG is overpower and needs to be nerfed next patch.
89 damage Maxi combo with 2 BE into a RO or W! follow up on Hilde's 22B is totally justifiable IMO.
Its difficulty is inversely proportional to its payoff. You can get huge combos for free just by JGing a string. If it were easy, then all anyone would ever do is JG and get free combos.
Also, you can practice it quite easily. Go to practice mode and set the CPU to "Check Skill" mode. You can cycle through his attacks one by one, practicing JG on each. Yes, it's hard and it takes work. If you want something that's easy and you can master easily, you might want to check out Farmville. Otherwise, invest the effort and you will be rewarded.
FarmVille is so munch harder then SCV you don't know what you talking about lol.
Nobody has any excuses now.
The thing is, random casual players don't need to do it. It's something that, yes, can be useful to everybody but the only people that are really going to be using it are tournament players. It's not a 100% necessary skill to have in the game. If you're planning on going to tournaments, then yes, it is most likely a critical tool but it's on you to practice it so you can use it at that level.
Saying that it's too strict and too hard is like being a tournament player who mains Setsuka (Alpha Pat) and says that 1AA:A is too hard to pull off and needs to be changed.
I highly disagree. Perhaps, Dead or Alive is your cup of tea. It is similar to what you are talking about. I would hate Soul Calibur if they made it into that. There's nothing wrong with your philosophy. I used to have that mentality since what you state is more similar to real-life melee combat. However, if all games ended up that way, then it would lack complexity and would have less mindgames due to less moves/mixups/etc.. When you get to the higher tier of gaming regardless of genre, it becomes more like a sport. Not everyone has that dedication and not everyone needs to. Just because you don't enjoy it doesn't mean that Namco should ruin it for those that enjoy the competition. By the way, I only play this as a hobby.
I'm glad Soul Calibur has moved onto higher speed (slightly though slower than SC2) and added something akin to 3rd Strike's parries. SCIV felt like molasses, which is why I liked Setsuka better than Taki.
After reading through this thread I've managed to work my way up from rarely hitting a single JI to occasionally landing three in a row in practice mode. Nothing amazing, but it's a start. Thanks for all the info, guys. :D
You know fighting games are in a pathetic spot when people bitch about execution in a Soucalibur game.
Only just guards... and they are difficult. I've been practicing them still and getting a bit better, but it's so much harder to actually apply them in game. Will become significant, but definitely a high level technique.
Except it's really not that hard. It only took me about 10 minutes of experimentation to get the general timing down - note: I still haven't implemented it into my general gameplay, yet. I just know the timing and when I'm ready to implement it, I know how to go about doing so.
I can understand finding this difficult if you are new(er) to fighting games, or never tried dedicating yourself to precision timing techniques in a fighting game, but it's generally just a timing issue (like most things in fighting games), which tempers its difficulty.
People truly tend to underestimate their capacity when it comes to achieving certain things, and rhythm-based execution techniques are no different (especially when they don't realize it's rhythm-based and it's a video game). Humans can consciously set internal metronomes to the nearest millisecond. All healthy humans hold this capacity - it just takes practice. Your body subconsciously sets the rhythm for your heartbeat, pulse rate, brain waves, sleep patterns, etc. You consciously set a rhythm for any daily routine you might have that involves mundane activities - such as a routinized work week/day.
Time perception is the foundation for music, and while I don't play any musical instruments, I'm willing to bet Just Guarding wouldn't take a fraction of the dedication playing a violin or piano well would take.
So yeah, not to be pedantic, but shit's not beyond anyone's reach. JG will become prominent in the coming months once people realize this. Get to work now, or get left behind.
What game having you been playing? People always bitch about execution in SC. :P
I know they will become prominent, I even mentioned it i my post. I can time them already, at least in training mode. The difficulty is in the fact that you cant JG just after releasing guard. I've been practicing against Pyrrha's BB for example and to JG the second hit you have to release G right as the first hit connects to have enough time for JG to work before the second hit.
Even the easier JGs are harder in practice though, in the flow of a match the timing feels different for every string because you have to recognize what is coming at you and when the followup will land. I was even having some trouble JGing Astaroth's string mid match for example, I landed it a couple of times but also missed and got hit. That is something that will improve with time but against, for example my previous example Pyrrha, you would have to predict exactly when she will BB because you need to be ready to release G just as she hits.
Part of it may just be the counter-intuitive nature of the JG becoming active on releasing the button though.. I used to be fairly consistent in SF3 parries, but that was much easier than this in my opinion. I know JG is going to be important, I'm just saying it's difficult and with good reason. If everything could be JGed on reaction, the game would probably be quite broken, it's a good thing it will need great prediction skills or use mostly in strings/against unblockables.
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