Move Analysis: 66B

Heaton

A Soul in the Purgatory
(split it from the General Q&A since I think this is really valuable information that not everyone is gonna see if it stays buried in there - Heaton)

Hello, Siegfriends. Today I want to talk to you about 66B. To start you off, here's some information about 66B:
  • i32
  • 44 damage, 32 damage (tip), 52 damage (Clean Hit), 40 damage (tip + Clean Hit)
  • Guard Crushes in 9
  • -22 on block, but safe depending on range and character
  • Forces crouch on block
  • Slide knockdown on normal hit, crumple knockdown on counter hit
  • Tech steps to the left
44A (delay that 66B) - 46 - 54 damage (range dependent), 66 damage on tech trap
CH 11B - 53 damage, around 60 on tech trap (damage is very angle dependent)
SRSH A - 67 damage, 82 damage on tech trap
WR AA
  • catches absolutely everything against everyone
6B
  • catches all but back tech
  • GI/JG-able against front tech
3KKB
  • catches all for Patroklos, Natsu
  • catches all but backwards AC + roll for Astaroth, Leixia, and Z.W.E.I.
  • GI/JG-able on any wake-up
3KKB (last hit)
  • catches all tech
  • GI/JG-able on front and back tech
22*88A
  • catches all but back tech
  • GI/JG-able on front and back tech
CH 66K
  • catches all tech
  • GI/JG-able on front tech
66A+B
  • inconsistent against front tech
  • catches all but back tech at tip range
FC B+G
  • catches all tech
  • GI/JG-able on front and back tech
SBH A
  • catches absolutely everything against everyone
SCH k(BE)
  • catches absolutely everything against everyone
SCH k(BE) ~ jagA
  • catches absolutely everything against everyone
SSH K
  • Can be Guard Impacted or Just Guarded with left or right tech.
  • Catches back ukemi only against Natsu, Leixia (only if she holds G), Patroklos, Siegfried,
Astaroth
  • FC 3K (he needs to be MASHING on that K input to get it to come out as early as possible, otherwise no punish)
Cervantes
  • 4b(BE) (combos at mid-range, force block at tip range)
Dampierre
  • 623B - 107 damage (a general number from the combos that can follow)
Patroklos
  • 66B (whiffs at tip range)
Pyrrha Ω
  • NS B - 31 damage (no chance of NS B4)
  • DNS B - 42 damage + KND (super tight window, no chance of DNS B4)
  • CE - 92 damage (if your opponent does this, punch them in the face and throw their controller across the room)
Critical Edge Only From All Ranges
  • Algol
  • Elysium
  • Hilde
  • Pyrrha

At a glance, this move is a shadow of its former selves. SC3 66B was absolutely amazing, and SC4 SRSH A+B was this move on steroids from stance. However, that doesn't mean that this version is "bad" by any stretch. Getting it blocked is only a terrible thing against a fairly small portion of the roster, and a few of them even need meter to do anything to it. And since it crushes in 9, it amplifies Siegfried's already great Guard Crush game - it even leaves him in FC for the WR (B) ~ SCH B post Guard Crush punish. On hit, it also resets spacing to something Siegfried is generally more comfortable with, and on counter hit it creates a sort of 50/50 between FC A+G*B+G and RCC 3(B) - really crappy 50/50, though, because of left tech and other nonsense, so try to get it on normal hit.

Against characters that don't really have an answer for it, you can REALLY abuse it. There is a problem, however - everyone has a generic answer in Just Guard and Guard Impact, with Guard Impact being pretty safe and easy to do against most knockdowns, and Just Guard being moderately difficult and putting you at (-30 or something. not really sure, but you're getting launched.). The options that are entirely force block are either hard to implement consistently (WR AA, SBH A) or use meter and give guaranteed damage anyway (SCH k[BE]) which make it only useful in select situations. So in most circumstances, you're either going to be getting this against a character that has no meter, or a player who has no idea what the fuck is going on.

Even with those weaknesses, however, you can condition opponents to try to get up as soon as possible and as far away from you as they can - essentially, you're conditioning them to reset to Siegfried's preferred spacing on wake-up. This also means they have to make a hard choice if their back is to the wall or the ring's edge - trading the round for some Guard Damage is an easy decision, but what if your gauge is flashing red and it's the final round? So even though a lot of setups are GI/JG-able on certain techs, you can still use this to influence them to tech a certain way.

Inevitably, someone is going to go to the lab and see "oh, I can just tech forward and guard impact that shit. Man, this is easy mode." Again, Siegfried is still the one setting the pace of the match here - teching forward opens them up to a unavoidable grab/mix mixup. It's a 50/50 that's not necessarily in your favor depending on the mid used, but you're still the one in control of the pacing of the match, and you need to ride that for as long as you can.

In conclusion: 66B isn't the best move. It's not even a great move. But it's not a bad move, either - it has a niche that it does fairly well, and that's all I can ask for. There may also be situations where there are extremely powerful tech traps off of moves that nobody techs for - this may be the move to force people to tech. On that front testing still needs to be done - I'll keep you all posted.
 
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