Old Man's Wisdom: Mitsurugi Combos

Discussion in 'Mitsurugi' started by Belial, Feb 11, 2012.

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  1. Jaeger

    Jaeger [09] Warrior

    You can also use it to punish things at -16.
    For example mitsu's 2kb on hit, algol's 1a on block, leixia's 33bb on jg.

    Still don't think it's game breaking.

    P.S. Getting it to hit off axis is pretty hard. Try ssl 3b, 236(b) against Pyrrha for instance.
  2. Senzait

    Senzait Steamed Buns!!

    Has anyone tried buffering this off of Quick Step? Probably wont work and I dont really have time to test until tomorrow evening, but someone should give it a try.
  3. Revneg

    Revneg [09] Warrior

    I'm not a very in-depth tester, but I'm getting 236 animation when I buffer the move right after QS.

    I'm trying to hitconfirm 3B BE (either hit) before I can even buffer this crap. real fucking hard lol

    this move definitely isn't an issue! anyway, in combos... this move's good. but it really shines just as a safe mid, or as a punisher.
  4. stickystaines

    stickystaines [01] Neophyte

    I use a 360 pad on default controls and i do it by:

    during recovery 236(B)
    when move starts pull on both triggers.

    No awkward way of holding the buttons or anything. Im sure PS3 pad has something like this. The right trigger is A+B+K macro and left trigger is B+G macro. Easy.

    I find 3B fairly easy to hitconfirm into it, but 33B is a lot harder.

    The way i think this works is that because you are holding during the buffer time, it believes that you have done a full charge and when you cancel it with A+K+G it gives you the full charge version a lot faster.

    The only reason i say that is because the amount of time you have to hold the B to get the bug version is pretty much the same time as you would a full charge hold normally.
  5. m216xlegendx

    m216xlegendx [10] Knight

    This is cheap and it should be tourney banned, nuff said
  6. Tofma

    Tofma [04] Fighter

    Bitchbitchwhinewhine

    It'll raise Mitsus damage nicely, sure, but it's not gonna make Mitsu dominate every single major or anything.

    People finding shit like this and then finding ways to counter it is one of the things that made fighters intresting in the first place. How about you just hit practice mode and...idk. See if other chars can do the same with some of their BE moves? I dont see any real reason why this would be just limited to just Mitsus 236b BE

    That said they'll probably patch it at some point anyway so whatever...
  7. Tofma

    Tofma [04] Fighter

    Have people tried this out much in actual matches yet?

    Maybe I'm just slow. But in mixups by the time I've confirmed my 3b or 99b hit it's too late start buffering the 236b. And I really dont want to just buffer it right away because then it'll come out even if the mixup got blocked.
  8. DrakeAldan
    • Senior Moderator

    DrakeAldan Follow the rules!

    PSN:
    DrakeAldan
    Yes. Online.

    33B is arguable, as it's harder to buffer 236B correctly and you're not totally unsafe on block (I think a 6B8 followup + oki would be more appropriate for 33B)

    but, 3B, you get that blocked, you're getting punished, so 236B coming out is a moot point. and 90~ meterless damage speaks for itself.

    You don't really confirm 3B unless you're fishing for 3B BE, which is kind of a psychological gimmick, so...
  9. Signia

    Signia [12] Conqueror

    Anyone have any success using this outside of a combo? CH 3A or 2A into i236B works pretty well.
  10. Luneth22

    Luneth22 [12] Conqueror

    XBL:
    luneth22
    Tried it, works nicely to continue your offense. I think its slightly easier to do than 33_99B into it.
  11. Dinosaur

    Dinosaur [04] Fighter

    I have an empirical attitude about these sorts of things. When a major tournament has 4 Mitsu in the top 8, I think he's unfair. Same with any character. Until then, QQ elsewhere.

    Also, against people that don't want to step for whatever reason, I've found that i236(B) is an incredible guard pressure tool on frame advantage. BB on hit, for example, or 6B8. I'll just throw it out there sometimes if they haven't been stepping, and if they swing it's huge damage, and if they just standing block (which they probably should be, being at frame disadvantage) you're at -2 and their guard just got kicked in the lady parts.
  12. Senzait

    Senzait Steamed Buns!!

    Under that logic SC4 Amy, and Algol weren't unfair and Ivy was incredibly OP. Tournaments don't always reflect tier lists :)

    CH 3A works great for buffering it in and 2A beats pretty much everything off of a blocked i236B so you can buffer i236B right after. So If your opponent isn't prone to stepping CH 3A ~ i236B ~ 2A (hit or CH) ~ i236B... is a pretty good string once you have the execution.
  13. Dinosaur

    Dinosaur [04] Fighter

    And tier lists don't determine bans, overcentralization of a metagame does. Nobody thought Algol was unbeatable; just that beating him would become the focus (or at least, a major part) of anyone's game plan. IE if you didn't have a plan for Algol, don't bother playing.

    Not to say that super disparate tier lists don't ever overcentralize metagames, because of course they often do. Not always, though.
  14. Belial

    Belial King of Hundred Swords

    PSN:
    SgtKrabco
    Sometimes having bullshit in the game makes it random and/or boring. So most normal people will just play something more fun.
  15. Jaeger

    Jaeger [09] Warrior

    Algol gets ~150 off safe mid launcher with 1 BE, ~180 with 2 BEs.
    Hilde has an infinite with c2 b

    I don't really see this as the game breaker.
  16. Force-Destruct

    Force-Destruct [10] Knight

    I'm gonna take a guess that it's because it's over 100 damage for NO METER and NOWHERE NEAR A WALL.

    And you get a 100% safe, high-damaging i16 attack that also guard bursts in 7 hits!
  17. Jaeger

    Jaeger [09] Warrior

    Over 100 for no meter? What combo are you using?

    100% safe on block, but still can be stepped/backdashed and there's only a handful of ways to set it up.

    He's better with it but not some unstoppable god tier juggernaut.
    He's worse without it but not some low tier trash.
  18. Dinosaur

    Dinosaur [04] Fighter

    It's 8 hits, but that's neither here nor there. I really don't see how a 100 damage combo breaks the game.

    In the first place, it's not completely outside the range achievable by other characters. Cervy, Hilde, Algol, and aPat can all get similar or greater damage under some circumstances. I'm not saying that because they can automatically means that Mitsu's is a good idea; I'm saying that it is possible for a metagame with 100 damage combos in it to exist and be healthy. We can't decide it's busted on the basis of one youtube video and a couple weeks at most playing with it. The damage alone isn't going to break it. There would need to be a more complex interaction with the game mechanics and/or cast.

    SCIV Algol is an example of this. Bubbles in that game, in addition to being powerful, did something that none of the other characters in the game could do. It changed how navigating the ring itself worked in Algol's favor. Characters that had a hard time dealing with them were basically excluded from the metagame. If you took the projectiles away from every character but one in Street Fighter, that one would instantly be busted (top tier at least) if that projectile was strong enough.

    Metaknight in SSBB is a similar story. He's hardly unbeatable (he's actually got pretty bad physics compared to the rest of the cast), he's just so fast that a whole lot of the cast just can't fight him. The existence of metaknight in tournaments devolved the metagame into metaknight mirrors and characters who could beat metaknight (marth, etc). This is what we mean by "overcentralization."

    Mitsurugi's new trick isn't anything really unique, doesn't require any special treatment in the scope of things a SCV player has to worry about, and doesn't suddenly bar half the roster from the playing field. It's a scary move you don't want to get hit by. It punishes and gets used in combos. There are other moves that perform all these functions (iGDR, JF twister, TAS B) as well, for comparable damage, and it's not immediately apparent that these moves break the game.

    I'm not saying that i236(B) is obviously fair. What I'm saying is that it is far, far too early to call it unfair enough to warrant a ban. Metagame implications take time to materialize, and until they do we can probably use our energy for something more productive than gloom and doom talk.
  19. Senzait

    Senzait Steamed Buns!!

    You guys aren't really getting the point. Its not the fact that it yields 100 damage combos off of no bar. Its that Mitsu had virtually everything that defines a high level character previous to this finding. This frankly puts him beyond that.

    According to your reasoning if we gave O Pyrrah two 65+ damage command grabs (One A and one B) it wouldn't make her OP because Astaroth has the same thing and isn't.

    Im not saying he should be banned because of this, all im saying is that this is a broken mechanic. + We are only beginning to understand its uses and ramifications.
  20. Revneg

    Revneg [09] Warrior

    dude this is a combo thread. relax lol

    3B, 236B, 6B2 is 92~94 dmg.

    What combo are you using?
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