Raphael Frame Data Discussion

Discussion in 'Raphael' started by WuHT, Jan 31, 2012.

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  1. Hudathan [09] Warrior

    SE is Shadow Evade which is Prep~2. A move with clean hit rank A means that it has the highest probability to clean hit for 25% more damage.
    Hudathan, Feb 4, 2012
    #21
    • Premium Supporter

    piggy RIP Team Edward

    PSN:
    dmg_piggy
    I'll be updating the wiki with the frame data tomorrow during the super bowl, which should make things easier to see.
    piggy, Feb 4, 2012
    #22
    Black_Dog likes this.
    • Premium Supporter

    HolyForce I will show you...

    Raph's BE attacks have terrible properties and uses compared to the entire remainder of the cast.
    HolyForce, Feb 4, 2012
    #23

  4. Hudathan [09] Warrior

    I don't mind using his meter for only his primary BE during combos for decent damage. However, many other characters who share that playstyle have better normals in the neutral game so that meter is purely supplemental, whereas Raph could really use some way to transform meter into better ring control. As of right now, with the new guard gauge and meter system, momentum is so important in a match and Raph is coming up short.
    Hudathan, Feb 4, 2012
    #24

  5. Solid_Altair [05] Battler

    Oh! I see. Cool. The Clean Hit thing is new on SCV, right?

    btw, did someone test if Prep kA+B+K can wall hit and lead to a big combo?
    Solid_Altair, Feb 4, 2012
    #25

  6. Hudathan [09] Warrior

    Clean Hit is completely new in this game. Refer to the Combo Findings sticky for Prep K BE follow-ups.
    Hudathan, Feb 4, 2012
    #26

  7. Solid_Altair [05] Battler

    ^

    Will do. Thanks.
    Solid_Altair, Feb 4, 2012
    #27

  8. MEEP1N [01] Neophyte

    sweet, thank you for taking the time to do this ! we appreciate it !!

    this should help me some as i am struggling bad to win with raphael. dern steps kill me
    MEEP1N, Feb 5, 2012
    #28
    flashismyfriend likes this.
    • Premium Supporter

    piggy RIP Team Edward

    PSN:
    dmg_piggy
    You and everybody else - hang in there and use 2A more ;-)
    piggy, Feb 5, 2012
    #29

  10. Heaton I'm Bane

    PSN:
    Kestryel
    Oh. I didn't know someone else was gonna do it.

    Well, it's up now. Aside from a few misprints in the guide, everything has been transferred to the wiki. Enjoy.
    Heaton, Feb 5, 2012
    #30
    kyrt and WuHT like this.
    • Senior Moderator

    WuHT Premium Moderator

    PSN:
    Trolt
    Good job heater
    WuHT, Feb 5, 2012
    #31
    Heaton likes this.
    • Premium Supporter

    piggy RIP Team Edward

    PSN:
    dmg_piggy
    This was very much a pleasant surprise for me, thanks!
    piggy, Feb 5, 2012
    #32
    • Senior Moderator

    WuHT Premium Moderator

    PSN:
    Trolt
    Why are the frames so late (except his TC) on his aGI and B+K? You can practically 6BB your way out of trouble by then
    WuHT, Feb 6, 2012
    #33

  14. Hudathan [09] Warrior

    Because it's wack.
    Hudathan, Feb 7, 2012
    #34
    • Senior Moderator

    WuHT Premium Moderator

    PSN:
    Trolt
    changed a bit of the wiki:

    22A is not -16, its only -12 on block. you can 4B to TC i15 moves no problem.

    However the bad news is it's a nice -2 on NH. No need to panic folks.. you'd think this move would get looked at by the patching committee "oops we forgot to tweak it after removing the CE followup on CH".
    WuHT, Feb 7, 2012
    #35

  16. darkfender [07] Duelist

    are u 100% sure of that?
    darkfender, Feb 7, 2012
    #36
    • Senior Moderator

    WuHT Premium Moderator

    PSN:
    Trolt
    test it yourself instead of asking.

    I've tried i12 6BB to punish. I've tried 6A against 4B and the TC worked, while 4K got a CH.
    WuHT, Feb 7, 2012
    #37
    • Senior Moderator

    WuHT Premium Moderator

    PSN:
    Trolt
    For those that are good at crunching frame data:

    I'm trying to figure out the aGI window on prep4. It seems that using 6A(B)~prep4 and 6B(B)~prep4 will give you the most relevant set of data.

    i17 is about the slowest move that can be aGI after blocking prep4 from 6B(B) so that means that i17-4= i13~i12 as the last aGI frame. I've test natsu's AA and I score a counterhit from the same setup, so (assuming the CH is from being hit while doing the wrong aGI) i'd say that the earliest frame is prior to i10-4= 6. I'm guessing i5-i13 but I have no way of testing the earliest frame. The window appears to be very similar to SC4's 44B (god bless that move), give or take a frame.

    Oddly enough, 6A(B) seems to aGI less moves as I couldn't get it to aGI pyrrha's 2B (raph would get hit) while 6B(B)~prep4 would work. Oddly enough, prep4 seems to aGI high verticals too, because i've seen it aGI pyrrha's 6B no problem.
    WuHT, Feb 10, 2012
    #38

  19. Mandritti [09] Warrior

    Yeah Prep 4 GIs all levels. I GI'd some highs. It looks weird.
    The important thing is that Preparation inputs can be delayed. This isn't IV, where you could have your prep move only at one point and had to buffer before then. Prep 4 will definitely require application of this new ability.

    You're showing -4 for 6B(B) into prep, but the wiki has -3. You confirm -4 with a clash situation?
    Anyway, if 6A(B) is less negative on block than 6B(B), whatever the number is, then this makes sense you wouldn't see 6A(B)~4 work on something 6B(B)~4 parries, because you're acting sooner and the GI window is expiring when, for 6b(b), it's still active.
    Alternately, Pyrrha 2B might just be weird and count as a horizontal for some reason. o_0 This happened in SCIV sometimes, right?
    Mandritti, Feb 10, 2012
    #39

  20. Real_Bojack [09] Warrior

    So the Strat guide is wrong? This is good news for Raph.

    More importantly does 22K still have the BT JF?
    Real_Bojack, Feb 10, 2012
    #40
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