Raphael media =/

[piggy]

And maybe not try to go for 22B all the time??

You have to go for 22B as much as possible. 22B and CH 6B are the only options we really have to get damage. I'm really good at poking, but it doesn't matter - so many other characters will just melt off your life bar. We have to be clever, use setups to which people haven't yet adapted. QS Throw is one of my new favorites.

 

[Hudathan]

The problem is that 22B doesn't track very well and can easily whiff. QS 22B is effective though. I agree with your last couple statements. Maybe its just my style with Raph...I don't like redundancy. I like to use a variety of moves and avoid patterns that opponents will be used to and throw out 22B and 6BBB CH from time to time. To me, 33B is more useful as it is a low that is hard to react to and gives toe hop stun on CH with good damage. Overall, I use Raph's entire arsenal of attacks, but with careful consideration of frames and safety of course.

There is a great article on the front page of the website where Hates talk about the importance of not playing mindgames with yourself. If you applied it to this situation, there is no reason why a move like 33B would ever take priority over a move such as 22B. 22B is faster, safe on block, and does way more damage on hit. In comparison, 33B is slower and weaker against step, much more punishable, and only gives decent damage on counter-hit. And more importantly, great application of 22B combined with 22A is what allows Raph to maintain enough threat in his ideal space to open up more with moves such as 33B. It's one thing if my opponent is so conditioned that he refuses to ever duck for fear of 22B, but until then I will not stop putting that move on him over and over at a range where he cannot retaliate.

This game is more about horizontal/vertical mix-ups more than mid/low mix-ups, especially when it comes to a super linear character such as Raph. So to put our best foot forward, we have to set up layers of control before we're allowed to use our more situational moves. 33B only hits someone who is in standing guard or doing a slow enough move that does not re-position their character too much. If you're playing an opponent who hands you that opportunity over and over again, then feel free to stab away. But a majority of competitive players will not be standing still for more than one of those a round.

 

[KowtowRobinson]

Who beat you in tournament.

Vints and Oofmatic. Not that they're bad players or anything, but I played poorly against them. All those things I got caught by, I know how to beat, and just didn't. I got hit with 1A a bunch, for fucks sake. I just spent the day before showing some of our newer players how to punish online Pyrrha 1A bullshit, then I go get hit with it in a tournament. And that Natsu in the team tournament was just flat out terrible, there's no nice way to say it. I lost to a bad player. So what does that make me?

So yeah, I'm a little salty. Everything I practiced flew out the window and I just played stupid pretty much all day. Gotta work on my inner game for a while.

 

[Hudathan]

That's the fun thing about anything competitive, you spend as much time you can working on improving your skills and only about 10% of it comes through during those clutch moments. But you struggle along and continue to push yourself to do at least 10% more the next time around, and knowing when you've reached that next level of play is priceless. Baby steps add up to greatness in life. The most powerful thing you can do to motivate yourself is to say 'I will learn to never be beaten by X again.' The road is frustrating but it separates boys from men.

 

[piggy]

If you applied it to this situation, there is no reason why a move like 33B would ever take priority over a move such as 22B. 22B is faster, safe on block, and does way more damage on hit. In comparison, 33B is slower and weaker against step, much more punishable, and only gives decent damage on counter-hit. And more importantly, great application of 22B combined with 22A is what allows Raph to maintain enough threat in his ideal space to open up more with moves such as 33B. It's one thing if my opponent is so conditioned that he refuses to ever duck for fear of 22B, but until then I will not stop putting that move on him over and over at a range where he cannot retaliate.

100x this, honestly. 22B is SO good, and safe when used correctly. If they are just gonna stand there and block it, hooray, cause that means they aren't hitting you in the face. Also, if they try to hit you in the face, they take 80 damage. I have almost never used 33KB in a tournament for this reason, just cause 22B is better in almost every way, especially since the range is better. Not that Raph's other moves are worthless, but 22B is what is gonna make them work.

 

[KowtowRobinson]

That's the fun thing about anything competitive, you spend as much time you can working on improving your skills and only about 10% of it comes through during those clutch moments. But you struggle along and continue to push yourself to do at least 10% more the next time around, and knowing when you've reached that next level of play is priceless. Baby steps add up to greatness in life. The most powerful thing you can do to motivate yourself is to say 'I will learn to never be beaten by X again.' The road is frustrating but it separates boys from men.

I've been at this shit too long to be making basic fundamental mistakes, though. Some of this is stuff I've been doing since SC2 when I first started, and it always pops up when my lack of anger management shows itself. I think I just need to work on that moreso than I need to work on Calibur at this point.

 

[Hudathan]

I've been at this shit too long to be making basic fundamental mistakes, though. Some of this is stuff I've been doing since SC2 when I first started, and it always pops up when my lack of anger management shows itself. I think I just need to work on that moreso than I need to work on Calibur at this point.

After a while any intelligent person would know HOW to play the game when they're just sitting around with the time to think, but us tournament players understand that it's more about actually PLAYING the game when we DON'T have the time to think. Competitive play is more about having presence of mind and consistency, and you can't do that unless you continually train and remain calm under pressure. Mechanical skills and knowledge are a given, but execution is so much more complicated. Just take things easy one step at a time.

 

[WuHT]

I also fail to see what 33KB has to offer. Its only marginally faster (from QS anyways). It is not like it wallsplats or actually tracks a teensey tiny bit.

 

[JodorowskyVIII]

I also fail to see what 33KB has to offer. Its only marginally faster (from QS anyways). It is not like it wallsplats or actually tracks a teensey tiny bit.

It's Fancy.

 

[darkfender]

did u remember how it was used in scIV?
well it works almost the same....
It was my fave move back then and i still use it proficiently....pushback is still decent...
It took me a couple weeks to adapt it to scV but if you learn how to realign its still a good antistep.

Its also the mixup of choice against people who expects 11K (note that good players never duck for no reason EXCEPT when playing against raph lol).

And not to forgive 33K:BE deals lot of damage.

Yesterday played saito astaroth >.> (online but the connection was really good) he eated lot of 33KB while mixupping his bullrush/22B...and he didn t punish it when he blocked it.

I lost the same being thrown to death (i always tried to break the wrong throw >.> lol).

 

[Hudathan]

http://www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp/b/310213479

WNX Weekly Soul Calibur 5 tournament top 4 followed by casuals. Some Raph casuals from myself towards the end at ~2:12:21. The cursed 5th place kept me from playing tournament stream once again, must level up.

 

[Leonyx]

http://www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp/b/310213479

WNX Weekly Soul Calibur 5 tournament top 4 followed by casuals. Some Raph casuals from myself towards the end at ~2:12:21. The cursed 5th place kept me from playing tournament stream once again, must level up.

Just something I noticed here, but you finish your Prep BBB even when you don't have the meter for the BE. I'm no professional or anything, but I think your best option when you don't have the meter is to go Prep B(B) back into Prep and go for some mixups, since you have +11 frames on hit. I feel like your opponent will be too focused on the fact that you're in Prep, so you can get an easy transition into SE and the mixups from there.

 

[WuHT]

+11 frames in prep is no where near as good as +11 frames from neutral. You have limited moves, and your opponent knows that .

 

[Leonyx]

+11 frames in prep is no where near as good as +11 frames from neutral. You have limited moves, and your opponent knows that .

You're right, but you can certainly beat them with any move you have in Prep, correct? And if they like ducking, you have Prep K. Plus, it gives you a nice frame lead for SE so that you have even better mixups.

Of course, guaranteed damage is good too. I suppose I'm just thinking hypothetically, but I've been trying to put this idea in to practice (when I get the chance online, so it probably doesn't have much value...).

 

[Mandritti]

You're right, but you can certainly beat them with any move you have in Prep, correct? And if they like ducking, you have Prep K. Plus, it gives you a nice frame lead for SE so that you have even better mixups.

(putting in the guy I'm responding to)

1. On Margarine: It's totally not Butter
Prep is not really a 'mixup'. Prep, once your opponent has nailed you down as being in Prep, is a chance for you to die.
It only, and I mean only, works against one sort of careful/professional mind, and that's the guy who is ducking 100% every time, and has trained how to stand to Prep K / JG the two-hit strings. (And this person exists.) It works here by you doing Sway every so often, because he has gone all defensive waiting for a block, not an opening; then, if your yomi is godlike for the Sway, that will make him quit that shit.

... until he just starts TCing you to death, because even with +, Sway is slow, and he knows you know he'll just dare you to do the Prep K. Still, you made him do something, and not by conceding your prep entry. The problem is the numbers. To keep up with the opponent's damage potential in comparison to yours, you have to rattle him so he keeps choosing wrong.

2. Building Better Bread
You're thinking in terms of "this could work because there's a mid, and he can't always stand." A strong player will scope out the weak point in a basic setup like that and run you through, not "mindgame himself" (thank you BrianHates). He can stand forever, because he's not going to lose just for doing that for 30, 40 seconds; and with all those opportunities for + frames you surrender, he'll probably kill you faster.
What -you- have to do is the timing changeups (same guess in slightly different advantage - different Preps), and abuse how the opponent can never follow what you're doing as well as you will follow what you're doing (because you're you, and the other guy's playing his character). The situation you've picked out is too peculiar for it to escape notice. It is all too conspicuous, and you have to be cautious of overly conspicuous setups.

Clarification: I mean doing this 'reset' after "a possible Prep BBB." The first time you do it , if you don't do Prep BBB, it's on someone's mind. You can mess around with their head, but you can't avoid the fact they're paying attention now. That's "conspicuous".​

You should aim to make everything so sneaky as to not come on the radar until after the opponent ate it. Even if he blocks it, he should then feel hesitancy, and that he made a mistake because he did not do something else he just barely is able to determine. Make it so his true escape never actually -occurs- to him, and then you are playing well.

If we're talking about gimmicks, then Prep K might work, and if it is working, I defer to wisdom on exploiting things 'just enough' to make people apeshit, and not invite counter, which is a fine art that the highest players compete to perfect. Even a scrub can just block Prep K and might punish. If Prep BB~BB~BB is working, then do that. Do that forever, and be sure to Sway on the break. (and go for Sway A, not B - this is a player who will probably screw up the huge disadvantage he has from BT if you let him run into your sword.)​

When your rival shows you that escape you did not anticipate, take good notes as you can, because he's redrawing the box you are playing the game in. (These moments slip past in confusion, of course.)

*~*~*​

​

Side note: Where did you get +11 from? I devour all things framey, and +11 would guarantee a (StunHit) Prep BB~Prep BB. Does that actually happen off Sway B, CH 3(B); or something? I want to swear it doesn't but I can't say I 've used resets other than 3(B) in this game (which wouldn't even count as it's more like a dropped combo...).

 

[Hudathan]

Just something I noticed here, but you finish your Prep BBB even when you don't have the meter for the BE. I'm no professional or anything, but I think your best option when you don't have the meter is to go Prep B(B) back into Prep and go for some mixups, since you have +11 frames on hit. I feel like your opponent will be too focused on the fact that you're in Prep, so you can get an easy transition into SE and the mixups from there.

Since it's a local tournament I play against the same people and they generally know everything my character can do after week 1, and against that kind of knowledge it's hard to force Prep even on hit, that's why I take my guaranteed damage against most of them.

 

[Leonyx]

*giant snip of useful info*

I clearly need to actually go to a tournament instead of just talking about things on paper. I'm working on that.

If I'm understanding your post (it's a bunch of concepts that I've only vaguely thought about in game), it would be alright to do this (Prep B(B) instead of Prep BBB) rarely, but if used too often a smart opponent can easily get through it. I need to play mindgames with my opponent so that he can't pick up on my patterns. Is that right? I'm probably way oversimplifying it.

Side note: Where did you get +11 from? I devour all things framey, and +11 would guarantee a (StunHit) Prep BB~Prep BB. Does that actually happen off Sway B, CH 3(B); or something? I want to swear it doesn't but I can't say I 've used resets other than 3(B) in this game (which wouldn't even count as it's more like a dropped combo...).

I got it from the 8wayrun wiki. Apparently it only is like that when you choose the Prep option. It's +11 on hit and counter hit and Prep BB is i12, so it's not a combo.

By the way, what is Sway? Is that SE?

Since it's a local tournament I play against the same people and they generally know everything my character can do after week 1, and against that kind of knowledge it's hard to force Prep even on hit, that's why I take my guaranteed damage against most of them.

Alright, I understand. Guaranteed damage is always good.