Discussion in 'Raphael' started by Raphael949, Oct 20, 2011.
Getting back to neutral with G should be no problem
In the recent interview, Tago said if we prefer some changes to Raph, we should inform them about it. Even if we don't, I can already tell that they're not going to mess up big time. :)
That says a lot too, given how bad Cervy's teleport is. Not a lot of people know that his teleport is bad though. Doesn't actually avoid attacks until frame 17, doesn't tech jump till frame 7. CONSTANTLY lands in front of people. Even with the built in BT b+k, you're often times not fast enough to punish jumping over and through a simple 2a with it.
Cervy was easily one of the most overrated characters in SC4, and most of it was people just assuming some of his moves were good, instead of doing some research. Which is hilarious because I think people did the opposite with Raph, who I think might even be better than Cervy. They just kinda went ohhh negative frames, I can step this move, Raph sucks lololol. At least you Raph players had a functional step and ok enough soul gauge game. Go try to work a soul gauge with Cervy, I dare you.
Oh right, back on topic. Raph's teleport was STILL worse than Cervy's lol. I was goofin off with him earlier and didn't even remember he had it. Oh well.
I really hope they dont change anything about scv raph for once he look GOOD
please resist your urges to complain that he isntsc2 raph he looks viable this time around
Edit: I wish raph was as "bad" as sc4 cervy
cervy players make me lol
he has insane damage pressure and mix ups what more could you want?
I find that most of of time with characters like Raph, Xianghua and Maxi for example, character designs rarely stayed consistent. Immortals can change how they look over time, I mean look at Cervantes.
Cervantes stole someone elses body for the new game, triple OG.
Not to mention Cervy beards had a new fashion designer who decided that red/pink looks better on him.
sadly, i only played 1 raph player one time.
i found that his new 44B is -16 to -18 on block due to tira GL 3AA(SC4 GL 6AA) punishing it. i also found, or at least i think i found, that prep B can track. However i only attempted to step prep once and prep B hit me so idk. He used prep with spacing.
Thats strange, as i've seen prep A (his 6A) track well to the side it always did.
The problem with old 44B is that it was both GIable and steppable on reaction, with a proper step giving things like Siegfried 1B (63 damage) - yes, even Siegfried, with his asstastic step, could step and punish Raphael 44B, and he was one of many that could punish whiffs HARD. The new 44B looks to be a lot quicker, so trying to GI and step it will be a lot harder. Though I'm not as happy about it being unsafe - SCIV 44B was -8 - but you can't have everything. At the least, it'll encourage smarter use of it.
the new 44B has spacing on block i f i recall. Im sure it does very good guage damage too. Its evasive also.
compared to old 44B, its evasiveness its better. It has a TC and a good retreat evade. while SC4 44B was actually punishable by AA strings even if the first A was evaded, Giable on reaction, and pretty slow. It only gave a guaranteed hit with the aGI and it aGIed lows. Can you see a 2A or just guess for it? I doubt a player would use a slow low while raph is standing and guarding. KND maybe.
As for new 44B its actually far more better due to TCing, and have a good and fast retreat evade. you can evade MORE options and get MORE guaranteed hits. i find this move pretty good for the spacing, guage damage, damage, and evasiveness in exchange for its unsafeness.
i also find the new 44B useful because it wont be heavily relied on. I can see it being used when the opponent is backstepping or when raph is stepping and anticipates a high antistep. These few uses can actually make raphs more refined/new tools be more acknowledged and make your style more unpredictable.
Compared to preA+B in SC4 its more safe too
Everyone seems to forget that SCIV 44B actually DID TC...also, the aGI was useful is you anticipated a low coming, especially out of minor disadvantage. aGI's aren't typically used for the purpose of beating moves on reaction - not sure what you're getting at with that.
The move is actually proven to be unsafe, too, which isn't all that great - 44B being safe in SCIV was nice because it forced them to have to step if they want to actually punish it; it made your opponent have to be active. I'll miss SCIV 44B because of its safeness and a few other things ("What a joke!"), but the new one sounds like it'll be just as fine. Y'all need to stop hating on the old 44B though.
okie dokie, im not hating on it. I am just accepting its replacement.
Thats why amy's aGI (at i2) and asura was so darn good. Heck, looks like pyrrah's A+b can be a reaction based aGI.
As long as it has a 44 action, there is NO way you can use the move on reaction (unless its a super slow enemy move) as 44B will most likely be a deliberate action
Lol, Aris said Raphael sucks.
Guess I'll put my impressions here:
1A is barely usable now, it does so little damage it hardly seems worth throwing out
22A would be a good move but it's annoying to use because you end up quick stepping. 8WR moves in all directions are hard to do without a quick step. I never tested it but 6632 might work.
His backstep is amazing. In exchange, he lost his pushback.
I didn't have much fun playing the character so I didn't learn much. He seems pretty solid but he's weak in the damage department. I didn't have much success in prep. He has tools to beat step now with 22A (hit or CH guarantees CE) and 33A (SCIV WS A).
The actual prep stance doesn't look too dangerous. But SE does although i did see a SE A whiff hilde's step at 1:16:00 of the level up stream. And i think i saw 66B track hildes 8wr to the left when he charged her. The quickstep was killing him in the stream video. Signia, were the complete command list there for all characters or was it still a limited version?
The command list was there. Did anyone video them? nope! People just wanted to play.
people were not allowed to post the command list per filthie or so i was told (which is understandable)
Looked like SE B whiffed (that move is going to be ultra linear) to me
I am just starting out with SC and picked up IV at the weekend to get a feel for the series before V hits the shleves. Raphael is the character I've related to and liked the most, but my understanding in IV is he was very linear and low tier (makes no difference to me). What I would appreciate feedback on are the changes he has in V and how this has improved him as a character and made him more unpredictable/rounded?
From videos I've seen I think he looks strong in V, has a decent high/mid/low game, solid range and speed and mix ups with his Prep and VE feints...I have noticed changes to what I have see in IV, but a weekends experience and a few videos is not as helpful as some experienced feedback from people who have also probably tied him in V demos already. I have been reading the pages here, but the info in terms of improvements is too spread out to really pice together or make sense of and most of tends to talk about potential strategy as opposed to like for like comparison of "what was wrong with him vs what have they done about it".
Also, are there any dev blogs for the game explaining changes they have made and why?
His meaty lows so far are SE K (reactable, short range) but has a knockdown.
prep A+B (linear), but retreats and also has knockdown.
33B really linear, but has a CH stun for small combo.
Probably the best combination of speed and range of any character.
His SE stance seems to be the most dangerous. Prep, if anything, is no longer as scary.
Have you read the NEC experience thread here? Got a good change list in there.
However, you're asking people who playtest to assert statements regarding "what was wrong and what was right regarding game design?". You're more likely to find that after a YEAR of gameplay so people can substantiate their claims.
language barrier would be the key imo, but it was nice that they sent daishi over to play tourney players during demos. While he didnt' explain the reason behind this and that, we get a sneak preview of how the characters are played (and have to infer the intent via observation of how the game director used each character).
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