Raph's Top Ten Moves

Yeah Prep KBE is only guaranteed after a successful Prep 4 aGI which is risky enough with the narrow window lol. Not to mention that the move can glitch and make Raph spin 360 and kick the wrong way. Furthermore, one you Prep 4 successfully, the massive pushback after Prep K can make the second hit whiff. It's Raph's least effective BE though it has RO, W!, and big damage potential.
 
33K BE is almost exclusively a combo move for me. I find the positive frames on block to just not be worth the risk of it not hitting.

The way I look at most moves is using the law of averages. Positive hits vs negative ones. For instance, SE K is a worthwhile move - to train the opponent to duck, and also for the moderate damage. SE A, however, is something I might use once in a round, mainly due to it's speed.

If 33K BE drew the opponent in on block, I might throw it out more randomly. With the current state of the move though I might only use 1-2 per set outside of SE B, and usually near a wall.

Prep K BE is just an excellent move though. The pure damage output is fantastic. My problem with it is it's mid screen knock back, which sometimes makes 3A+B:5 whiff. It's a great option after you have trained an opponent to fear walls, and the try to step away on Prep entry. I just wish that it had better tracking, as the whole move can occasionally be stepped!

I'll add that if I throw a Prep K BE outside of Prep 4, it hits a good 80+%. I'll also add that I don't spam it, I can just predict step pretty well now.

Prep BB BE is in my opinion a cheap move. I mean that as a compliment to the move. It's properties on CH are just tasty. It's a great start at showing your opponent how dangerous Raph can be if they think he is slow, which some people need reminders on.
 
33K BE only whiffs if you're too far away from the opponent. Learn to input it as 663K BE and the problem goes away.

Also, as with any BE, your goal is to not get it blocked. It does more damage than Prep K BE, is + on block instead of launch punishable for more damage than it's worth, it can be used out of stance it gives an excellent mixup on hit, and it's Raphael's strongest whiff punisher by far. Not only that, but it can be used as a mixup option once you make your opponent fear throws/11K/2K/etc.

33K BE is not only an awesome move in its own right, but it makes other moves like 11K and throws that much better by extension.
 
Zanaken said:
I'm really not sure who you fight, but my opponents are not static robots hell bent on nothing more than standing still and punishing frames.
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Enkindu??? Reptile??? Do they count? My opps learn real quick to wait patiently and then do a TC or punish SE transition on reaction.
 
According to your logic, why should I attack then?

I should also stand still and punish their unsafe moves? Or just range and do 20 damage pokes like everyone else? I play well dude, it works. I don't see why you think people will stand still to cheese all day when, if they take a risk themselves, they can end the round there and then.

This mentality really fucked up the Soul Calibur community... Instead of more and more skill and swift play, you're seeing meek pokes and fear.

Thank god the tourney scene still has some actual play. If someone wants to stand still and frame punish, they're not playing. No sponsors arrive, no money is made, the game dies.

Edit: Please don't jump down my throat for the above comment. I think you know where I'm coming from. I can argue against my own point above with ease. Just try and get both sides here.
 
Um, you should attack but not with a stance that can't force the opp to really do anything so that you can set up a risky ass move. Do other stuff.

If another Raph is hammering me with lots of Prep why should I do anything else?

If this was Mist, or the Xiba stick stance, or if Prep BB_AB did more guard damage then you'd have a much stronger point. With Prep the opp should just stand there and react because they can react to nearly anything Raph does dealing with Prep.... on reaction, (it's been this way since 2). I know this works because it's my standard strat when I have to mirror Raph. I stand there and wait for,

SE - I do a 3B~BB
Prep 4 - I do a 236 B after the window is done
Prep A+B - block (although I should do an 8B or something)
Prep K - block and punish
Prep K BE - block, then 4B or crouch then 66A+G or something
Endless prep - wait it out, if I was another character I'd do some good TC mid

If they do an empty Prep or a Prep feint and hit me with something good for them, they deserve that damage. I'm not going to significantly deviate from this plan because the risk/reward is in Raph's opp's favor. As long as I don't let him SE too much or land Prep K BE's or A+B's then I don't even have to worry about damage very much. I don't even have to really give up much mental advantage either because Raph has to do something that let's the opp know he's may go Prep.

According to my logic if you're landing Prep K BE that often then you're likely getting hella lucky or your comp isn't that strong.

Holy shit this is long winded for me.
 
You really shouldn't play a character where you automatically cut of 90% of your options and mix-ups. We wont agree on this, so lets not carry on.

Thanks for your opinions, I hope you enjoyed mine.
 
Zanaken said:
You really shouldn't play a character where you automatically cut of 90% of your options and mix-ups. We wont agree on this, so lets not carry on.

Thanks for your opinions, I hope you enjoyed mine.
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He brings up a good point. How do you handle the Raph mirror? If you notice yourself getting to score damage mostly because the opponent Raph has entered prep, then you'll understand what bojack is saying.
 
WuHT said:
Lets discuss what are you top ten.

Considering patch 1.02

There is no clear tier that separates the top 10, so raph is back to being a character where there is no small pool of quality moves that are so strong he can reduce his movelist to 10 core moves and hope to win.

1) SE B : No brainer, undeniable combo damage and + on block. Does great guard burst damage too. The move itself got nerfed but SE A and SE K exist to beat step anyways so pre-patch you just got lucky sometimes (which is why the move is good)

2) 6BB/(B)/B/(BE) series: i12 at great range. Its also great bang-for-the buck meter usage as it turns a 40 damage string into 65+ damage with knockdown. prep BB(BE) is almost as good but the non BE CH string leads into a stun which could lead to a combo superior to the BE version (not that i'm complaining). The fact that you can opt to guard, add the 3rd B, go into prep, or do the BE means that you can expect big payoffs if you can out think your opponent.

3) 3(B): This move gets the prep engine going. Granted there are a LOT of tcing moves in the game, but access to prep4 and SE (while keeping your range) makes it a solid move. At its most basic is a 40 damage ranged punish or a 50 damage up close punish at i16. It's also slightly stronger due to the fact that 3B exists and you should expect a defensive strat from the opponent whenever this move is blocked which gives you time to study your opponent's tendencies.

4) 2K: This is a seriously underrated move for being "generic" move. As long as you're in range, it has surprisingly reliable tracking, allowing you to break up the aggressive lateral movement of an opponent with an option that is not vulnerable to tech crouching. Can hit enemies attempting to roll on the floor as well as beat super-TC moves. Same speed and yet longer reach than 6A. You'll be scoring this a lot on CH if you're using it as described, so the damage is not insignificant. Raph's extra long leg plus his better-than-average backdash whiff bait makes 2K also a very good initiator to observe your opponent. The loss of 22B combos makes side-step whiff baiting less effective however. Weaknesses are that it never tech crouches, and gives -2 on NH and CH (like his BB)

5) 3A: Love the mid-knockdown interrupting wallsplatting properties on CH. Low damage, but semi tracking and safe! It should be mentioned that its a really fast move (i14) that is always a threat after you do a 0 on hit low (especially near a corner/wall).

6) wrB: i13 mid. Great combo of speed, safety and range. Nothing abuseable as it does 1/15 of your opponent's hp per hit. You'd think this should have been his go-to poke. The problem with this besides its obvious low damage is that it pushes them pretty far away which pretty much nullifies any pressure raph can mount.

7) 66A+G: Something about 60 damage and the mashable life gain makes me happy. If they're orange bar, pretty much throw out one of these to seal the deal. However, gives both you and your opponent quite a bit of meter though so keep that in mind.

8) A+BA: Adds good damage to combos after a wall splat, a stun or when they are grounded and you catch. Its also surprisingly evasive given that you step back slightly and TC. Weaknesses are the fact that it is terribly short in range and also a frustrating ability to whiff on grounded opponents that aren't aligned perfectly.

9) 4(B): Despite the push-back on hit issues, the new prepBBB stun now makes this a pretty darn awesome TC move. The move is long ranged enough to also function as a decent whiff punisher. It's high itself, but it TCs starting at i3 which is pretty exceptional (and TC cleanly until impact frame). You can choose to do a quick 85 A+BA to follow through or blow your meter and end with CE which can be pretty good for reading your opponent's high.

10) 66B: Mid and guard break with + frames on block. Too slow for my taste, but has impressive range and an almost 60 damage followup on hit. On paper it is a really strong move with great range, good damage potential, great on block, some TC frames, and very good meter gain and guard gauge damage.

HM: 22A: If you're in range (and this move has exceptional range) you won't whiff, period. One of raph's most reliable tracking moves and is virtually safe on block. On CH you gain massive frame advantage so you can change a zoning game into a rushdown strat. Don't expect to win matches with this as your core move, but it compliments your poking zoning game. Weaknesses are obvious, in that it is low damage and guarantees nothing on CH. Also only available from side step (can't emergency stop step at range) and is high. Despite its long list of weaknesses, its value (to raph) is exceptionally high.

SE A: Another super reliable step killer. It's i15 and mid, and has incredible range. Spins the opponent backwards on hit, and gives you a huge frame advantage on hit. The biggest thing holding it back is that it is stance accessible only, which always makes the move telegraphed (when you have 4 options from SE) so it reduces the efficiency of its raw speed. It pushes the opponent forward noticeably on hit, so a grab mixup post hit requires dashing. Lastly, unlike SE B, it's not incredible on block , as it is now about -7 on block without decent pushback. Treat basically like 1B on block or hit (except can't wall splat). Exists almost solely as a reason for them to sit still for SE B.

version 1.0
Top 4:

1) SE B : No brainer, undeniable combo damage and + on block. Does great guard burst damage too.

2) SE A: Compliments no.1 by being tracking and even on block. I've been grabbed out of this once though, so that made this no. 2

3) 22B: Seems like his bread and butter combo starter after any sort of side-step. Being safe and leading to 60+ damage with no meter is fine by me. Only problem is that there is a hitbox error at some ranges where 3B, BBB, A+B will not hit (only 6K will).

4) 6BB(BE) and prep BB(BE): Raph's better meter usage, i12 and rapes guard meter. I love having full 2x meter and spamming this 4 times a round. Guilty pleasure indeed.

Other good moves:
5) 3(B): This move gets the prep engine going. Granted there are a LOT of tcing moves in the game, but access to prep4 and SE at tip range can even counter alpha pat's bullshit. At its most basic is a 40 damage ranged punish or a 50 damage up close punish at i16

6) 3A: Love the mid-knockdown interrupting wallsplatting properties. Low damage, but semi tracking and safe!

7) wrB: Great combo of speed, safety and range. Nothing abuseable. You'd think this should have been his go-to poke.

8) 66B: Mid and guard break with nutty frames on block. Too slow for my taste, but has impressive range and an almost 60 damage followup on hit.

Moves I like:

9) 66A+G: Somethign about 60 damage and the life gain makes me happy. The way they land by your feet is not bad too

10) 44B: Seems to be more evasive than SC4 44B.. though the followup is half as good.


I wish there was a step killer in one of these moves (aside from stance). Lets hope 22A gets buffed the hell up in the patch.
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Nice list, i will like add 1K somewhere but i don't know what sacrifice
TC, cath step on one side and have nice CH effect... i like CH 1K -> A+BA
 
WuHT said:
He brings up a good point. How do you handle the Raph mirror? If you notice yourself getting to score damage mostly because the opponent Raph has entered prep, then you'll understand what bojack is saying.
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I don't play for chip damage via Prep punish. I'll either guess a high, mid, or other option and land my largest possible combo.
 
As in; I don't go for catch-all Prep punishers, I'll mix-up the Prep mix-up from the enemy Raph.

To elaborate, I might go for something other than a 3A on SE entry.

I'll guess B and use B+K CE (-B+K 8B+K 3A WS 3A WS 3B BBB CE / B+K 66A+G - take your pick, there's more.)
I can guess A and get a 4A+BB into a wall combo, or a 3A+B:5 attempt at mid-field.
I can maybe see a SE K coming and do a G7 236B.

I don't like letting my opponent start a gamble without showing him that I can take a piece of the pie myself. Stopping SE with 3A (again, an example,) is just boring and frankly unnecessary.

After a while you can start sniffing out these mix-up mix-ups a lot easier vs most of the cast. I just think playing with 8A+B as a 2A killer is better than hoping to WS B them before they can input it.
 
Zanaken, is it at all possible for you to put up a few videos of your gameplay? I'm totally not trying to call you out or anything; I'm genuinely curious as to how you play and would love to see it in action. Even a smartphone video recorder would be appreciated.

Also, are you going to NEC?
 
Zanaken said:
~stuff~
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So rather than stuff Prep/SE (stopping SE is entirely necessary) in their entirety you'll let the opp Raph do what ever they want and try to out guess them? Is that what you're spilling here? Cuz it seems like I'm mopping up crazy.

This is not a convincing argument for your comp quality. I can't think of a single high ranking player who would advocate letting their opp complete full stance transitions in order to apply high damage counter strats. If you're playing Shogi would you let your opp advance and promote all their pieces before you began your strategy?

Fighting games are mostly about limiting your opp's options not gambling on risky counter maneuvers. You get bonus bucks for your moxy because honestly, who doesn't like it whenn go big or go home tricks pay off but as a long term FG goal.........?
 
Leonyx said:
Zanaken, is it at all possible for you to put up a few videos of your gameplay? I'm totally not trying to call you out or anything; I'm genuinely curious as to how you play and would love to see it in action. Even a smartphone video recorder would be appreciated.

Also, are you going to NEC?
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Yes respectfully challenge anything that you is not a fact. Doing so will push the overall Raph skill level up as everyone puts in the effort to backup with they state.

Plus, our video thread could always use more contributions zanaken
 
Ok, I hear you. I'll get some cool matches up as soon as I can.

@Real_Bojack
Shogi... Seriously? I don't see half life counters in Shogi which rely on outguessing your opponent in a split second decision. My strategy IS superior at dealing damage. A half life wall combo IS higher than a 3B, you just don't like doing it yourself.

The safe way out is nearly always negligible in terms of damage. Other characters such as Cerv or Z.W.E.I who can have niche punishers as well as safety neither rely on them, nor use them exclusively. Exeptions asside, I wont fight people standing still and doing nothing (always newbies, even turtles move.) That's some kinda joke.
 
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