SCV Yoshimitsu CE, BE, and meter Discussion

Discussion in 'Yoshimitsu' started by HajimeOwari, Feb 3, 2012.

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  1. HajimeOwari

    HajimeOwari Premium Member

    6B BE has more range than iMCF. There are two scenarios where 6B BE is great.


    1) You're downed and the opponent is out of iMCF range, but in 6B BE range. He's attacking, but his timing is a bit late. 1/2 a meter for solid damage.


    2) Your opponent is out of 2A and iMCF range (see a pattern?), but in 6B BE range. He's attacking you relentlessly and is clearly at disadvantage. 1/2 a meter for solid damage.

    I've used 6B BE while downed a number of times against good opponents and they're not prepared for it. It's honestly the best BE he has, imo, because it's the only one that's useful outside of a combo. I haven't done enough research for scenario two, but I'm positive there are situations in which a character would normally be safe, but not against Yoshi's 6B BE.
  2. Manjitou

    Manjitou [06] Combatant

    Aside from that though, it's a waste of bar. But sometimes being flashy with the BE effect can be cool.. I guess. I just don't see the point in it. It doesn't even do more damage than iMCF, it does the same amount.

    Edit: I guess I can see how the range matters although.
  3. Ichuto

    Ichuto [05] Battler

    So, after seeing Nightmare's 2A+B give him like, 25% meter I decided to see if Yoshi had any awesome meter gaining moves. Unfortunately, nothing as crazy as Nightmare's 2A+B but heres what I came up with:

    All of these moves seem to have noticable meter gain on it

    8A+B - combo into 3B afterwards gets you ~25% meter gain.

    3B

    1K

    4KB - more meter gain if you can land the unblockable B

    A+B

    2A+B(B)

    3B+K

    9B+K, K - This one actually gives a lot of meter compared to Yoshi's other moves.

    22_88B

    22_88K

    22_88_44B - This one gives above average meter gain.

    FLE K, DGF A+B - ~25%

    IND B - Slightly above average meter gain

    DGF B

    SDGF B

    And lastly, you get meter for whiffing moves so FLE A+B and FLE B+K might have a place in meter gaining. Whiffing FLE B+K gives you very little meter, but FLE A+B seems decent for just whiffing a move.

    For percents, I went by 200% being max, so 25% is where that first little spike is on the bar. The meter at the bottom of the bar is like, super condensed, meaning that a smaller amount at the bottom = a larger amount at the top and its so condensed that you cant even see meter gain from certain moves if you have 0 meter. When I was looking for noticable meter gaining moves, I just went by if the move gave you a good amount of green from 0 meter. Theres a couple of other moves that have that noticable meter gain, but these are all the moves that have it and are useful imo.
    Pocky-Yoshi and mkl like this.
  4. NoodleHead

    NoodleHead [02] Apprentice

    Iirc, 6B BE doesn't TC. I guess I may have asked a bit much, but 6B BE cannot combo after CH 6[A]. :( I will have to find a way to use 6B BE, because I don't think I have understood how to use it yet.
  5. b4k4

    b4k4 [06] Combatant

    Personally with Yoshi, given the high damage of his CE, I tend to lean on GI -> CE a lot. I don't really see more effective ways to use his meter, and this makes it very scary trying to attack him from the 3rd round on. I've hit this a lot against local players, and they've started respecting Yoshi's space more, and generally playing much more cautiously.
  6. OneManjiArmy

    OneManjiArmy [06] Combatant

    I find 6B BE to be more new-player oriented. If you absolutely cannot pull off an iMCF in a heated battle, the BE version does its job. Follow up with a 66B -> DNK -> 3B = Solid 70+ DMG. Power in math.

    It's a suitable replacement for people who can't really pull iMCF consistently.
  7. WilliamMunny

    WilliamMunny [01] Neophyte

    I love Yoshi's CE on wakeup...rolling around to opponent's backside or just being able to use it right as your opponent begins to attack. Not as useful if your opponent starts ground spamming you however. The CE is interrupted frequently by Hilde and Siegfried I've noticed and also some of Natsu's attacks...but she can easily jump over the CE without any issues.

    One thing I noticed yesterday is that Yoshi's CE will deflect certain incoming attacks and continue throughout the animation. This happened vs Siegfried's low double slash move (whatever it's called) it absorbed the first slash attack and did the full CE.

    In order to try and get better I've been suiciding in the first 2 rounds of colloseo fights to try and get better at ranked matches. I think it makes me better because I have to play with fewer errors throughout the rest of the fight, Yoshi is the only character that can really do this tactic effectively. By losing the first 2 rounds you also get the meter filled up for CE. It's exciting to try and come back and win 3 consecutive rounds to win the fight but not everyone will participate, people start leaving the match after awhile.
  8. I think you should always save his meter for a GI into a CE.
    Frostheart likes this.
  9. OneManjiArmy

    OneManjiArmy [06] Combatant

    Post 2012

    His BE's still flat-out blow. Only notable BE is 3A BE which is viable for wall hit combo, step catch, and CH confirm.

    66A BE too slow

    6B BE is a waste of meter

    His CE is nice, however. 110 Dmg TC isnt something to scoff at- especially since you can do GI -> CE.
  10. Sazayel

    Sazayel [08] Mercenary

    While I agree with you for the most part, I'd like to add some comments:

    - 3AB BE in wall doesn't seem to me such a good idea as the damage it adds isn't worth the BE and there are better options that can do as much damage if not more. Moreover, following the angle (front) it makes aB+K and 6K whiff or hard to connect.

    - 66A BE can work as anti-step/anti-backdash because SCV step guard is much slower than before and it is one of the few that has any range. I think the real problem is that it is both unconfirmable and unsafe even though the damage is rewarding.
    However it is great at carrying your opponent towards the edge (66A BE, iMCF, RCC 3B, DNK has some insane range). I would also use this move in a wall combo over 3AB BE. It is one of the best options after a Guard Crush (to RO or do Max damage combos).

    - 6B BE is to be used either after a CH 6[A] (back or side hit), or if you want to be sure not to fail at a iMCF attempt. For instance when you have a big wall combo opportunity or have the chance to finish your opponent off - especially in a tournament.
  11. mkl

    mkl [00] Signia's Cheerleader

    I agree that 3AB BE isn't really worth the meter for the damage, but it is just about the best he has in the heap of shit they gave him as far as BEs go. At worst you can hit confirm it to make it pseudo-safe and maybe even a psyche-out mind game. It also catches step and is quicker than 66A BE so usually you're better of using it for a step killer if you're in close.

    66A BE is the highest damage he can get from his BEs but it only does its job if it's CH otherwise it's barely anything for damage on NH. On block you can step or JG the second hit so you're far more punishable than its -6 would lead you to believe. It's also too slow to be a reliable backstep/sidestep catch I find. All of this adds up to way too much risk to just throw out and waste meter. It is definitely good if guaranteed for RO extensions though.

    6B BE is pretty much a bootleg iMCF. It doesn't work in a lot of his best combos since it's too slow (33A+B/JF4Ax5/etc) and it is even slightly more difficult to RCC 3B from in my experience just because its cooldown frames are different. There might be a time or two when I would opt to blow a meter for a round killing combo to clinch a game, but otherwise I'd probably have faith in my execution for a better move. One thing to note is that it does have much better reach than the standard iteration, but for 3 frames slower execution it usually doesn't get you very far.
  12. Sazayel

    Sazayel [08] Mercenary

    As I said I agree with OneManjiArmy's analysis but it didn't felt complete to me .

    Indeed, it is the best way to use it.

    That's why I said it was unsafe. I guess I didn't made myself clear enough, it is a very dangerous move to use. Thankfully a lot of people still have the habit to JG it instead of stepping it. I'm using it according to my opponent knowledge.

    Well, it is faster than his own 44A. For instance Asta's 44A is one frame slower and Mitsu's 66A is one frame faster. If that's too slow I guess you can just forgot every horizontal requiring a quickstep.

    Of course it is always better to use iMCF if possible. It has its use in some precise setups.
  13. OneManjiArmy

    OneManjiArmy [06] Combatant

    The only time I would ever recommend doing 66A BE and 6B BE would be if you know your opponent likes to back/side step a lot.

    You can get a really good RO as explained earlier. It is achieved by:

    66A BE (CH) -> 6B BE -> RCC (Recover crouch cancel) -> 3B -> a:BK -> Door knocker.

    You get so much distance from this, its easy to get a RO. however its hitbox on doorknocker is wonky and doesn't work on all characters and you have to justify the fact that you could have done a CE for more damage.

    But yeah, quote by MKL, heap of shit BEs xD
  14. RedDjinn

    RedDjinn Dat Hillbilly

    Since we are going heap shit of BEs might as well do 3AB BE instead of 3b after the RCC.

    If your going for ring outs... JF 4AAAAA is a must learn.
    Signia and Pocky-Yoshi like this.
  15. OneManjiArmy

    OneManjiArmy [06] Combatant

    I find 3AB to have a wonky hitbox. Sometimes it doesn't work- sometimes it does. Might be me though- the window to do this is small.
  16. RedDjinn

    RedDjinn Dat Hillbilly

    Its faster than 3B... so probably just RCC'ing slow... i duno?

    Mid screen shouldnt have any issues.
  17. OneManjiArmy

    OneManjiArmy [06] Combatant

    Possibly. I think I have the same delay issue with 66A BE -> a:B.
  18. OneManjiArmy

    OneManjiArmy [06] Combatant

    Double quote

    Oh nvm I now only saw what you were saying.

    Apparently I could do it fine and dandy- I just got confused as to what you were saying. I thought you meant to do 66A BE -> 3AB BE. That will almost always whiff o.o

    Also, 66A -> a:B is still an issue for me.
  19. RedDjinn

    RedDjinn Dat Hillbilly

    66A a:B ? you mean 2a:B?

    It has range issues I rather just go straight into 66B after 66A CH... unless im like right beside them.
  20. OneManjiArmy

    OneManjiArmy [06] Combatant

    66A BE. -> b:A slide sorry.
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