Siegfried changes from SC3 to SC4

Stryker

Stryker

[10] Knight
Here I am again trying to explain some points about my beloved character, I called him the hero, but now I have to call him as "The Paladin", cause my favorite armor (P2) its made from Paladin pieces (according to the CAS section of SC4); but now my mission is to compare what was Siegfried in SCIII against the Siegfried from SC4, and then you could tell if the changes were for better.

-Stryker-
 
Ok,ok the first post is totally boring... I'm gonna write about what are the best changes and worst changes, so you can have an idea about what I think about this new Siegfried.

Best Changes:
- Fast roulette changing so you can use it a lot more (so you can dizzy the enemy after watch you moving like a ballerina :D)

- Better roulette cancel for best defense.

- 22_88 B are really useful: excellent range, incredible speed, nice evade properties, combo starter, really good for confuse the opponent about what stance you get after; the best change from SC3 because 22_88 B was crap, and 22_88 BB was a lot of crappy crap.

- SRSH B its way better, cause its safer, faster and the move its very hard to see clearly.

- 66 B its insane now, cause its very damaging as combo finisher and soul crushing.

- SRSH A+B its totally safe against middle weight characters, fast, good range, and great against raising opponents.

- AA now its natural combo, great!

- SBH have an almost infinite GI activated, good against mid and high horizontal attacks... in SC3 was good against throws and all horizontal moves, but the GI window was too little.

- 1B its way better! more range to activate the attack throw, fast enough to punish some moves (like mitsu's 2kB).

- 3 SCH A+B its the best Siegfried's combo ever! damage, easy, RO, wallsplash and much more!

- 22k[A] its very good for fast pokes and mid games (but for me its still hard to do it properly).

That's a short list about the better changes from SC3 to SC4... next: worst changes!

-Stryker-
 
Some corrections:

SRSH B is still the same speed and just as unsafe as before.
SC 3 B+K's auto-GI window was HUGE and you could counter tons of shit with it. Plus theres a rather unnecessarily big vulnerability window between the standard auto-GI-frames (which are still the same) and the permanent auto-GI-frames.
SRSH A+B is exactly the same (except for less damage).
1B punished Mitsus 2KB before. Still same speed.

Best changes imo:

- changes to the overall system (slowdown of pokes, introduction of CF's and change of GI benefit Sieg a lot)
- new WS B
- 22kA series, new 3B combo and 22_88B like you mentioned
 
I open this topic for debate and opinion but maybe the most of Siegfried's users doesn't have the knowledge to get inside the dialogue.

Thanks Sacharja for the information, I checked all and I agree with you, but I have to admit that SRSH B has less range, maybe I was so happy to see the differences.

But I have to say that the worst change from SC3 to SC4 its the SRSH A. It doesn't have any good property even on CH... in SC3 was mid, good range, combo starter, mid speed, and good on block recovery... on SC4 is too slow, too vulnerable, super high, short range, and you can't start any combo using it even on CH... That's too lame.

Siegfried is upper mid right now... maybe the next update can take us closer to the top tier stand, and we definitely need RSH A to be fixed.

-Stryker-
 
I really like the guard crush on B2[A]! it helps a lot! That's a really good change from SC3 to SC4... its really useful to put the enemy on pressure cause that move have 4! on block (check the frame data to view the data from more moves) so you can keep attacking or change to a stance... my fear at first to use that move was the 2A from a lot of chars, but after some analysis I found that 2A can't touch me when charging A... its really helpful on corners to trap the opponent cause you can release fast, charged or even hit 8 to roulette to SCH to evade the chance to receive a GI.

This move is in the movelist for Siegf/Night since SC and I really like to use, but now that move its outstanding... My advice is try it, use it and abuse it, its fun!!

-Stryker-
 
Stryker said:
- 66 B its insane now, cause its very damaging as combo finisher and soul crushing.
Click to expand...

This is the opposite of knowledge. 66B was INTENSELY NERFED it now has NO TRACKING and was undoubtably THE SINGLE BIGGEST NERF TO SIEGFRIED FROM 3 to 4. I would lose every advantage from 4 if I could have the tracking back on my death star. DEATH STAR! Now it's more like princess leia's handgun.
 
66B has always been one of his worse moves.
It still tracks, just not as flawlessly as in 3. Still gets the job done as tech-trap, which has been its main purpose post-SC2.
 
I seem to remember 66b Being almost un-steppable in 3? like if my opponent would be stepping they 2 characters would actually trade sides on the screen but Seig would still land the 66b (if that makes sense). Anyway this isnt the case in 4.
 
I'd argue that WR B isn't as good in 4 as it is in 3, you lose a lot of range just for a stun. I suppose you could argue that WR A is your range move but people who know better lay on the ground a second and you have nothing worthwhile now.

Figured this out a little late but...:

When you're grounded BT in SC3 you could get up in BT SCH with a [B+K] hold... effectively allowing you to bait your opponent for an aGI after you get knocked away or after Sieg's 44K and 66A+B2. They took out 66A+B2, not that I care that much... but now trying to stand up BT requires a slight tap of B+K which is really touchy and seems to only work 1/3 of the time, making it basically worthless.

SC3 had my fave followup to BT SCH B(overhead) B2 A_K where its too damn slow in SC4.

Also after BT SCH B(overhead) you could hit B+K while they were right over your head to get back into BT SCH B, which was fun to utilize near walls especially since they'd have no AC.

Other minor BT changes: SCH B stuns in 4 when you're a little distance away, complaint? Neither version allows you to follow up with anything decent... SBH B doesn't hit in 4, though your sword goes right through them... SHRH A hit in 3 though it doesn't matter that much because it's ridiculous to use because they have to be close and by the nature of the move youre getting further away through stance...
 
The best move I like for siegfried is on soul calibur 4 is cheif hold kB, sick comboing attak but yea the only bad change that wasnt said was his voice in SC4 from SC3...damn shame, still good though lol
 
@Super_Villain

You also get better block-data and an actual TC. Old WS B didnt hit grounded either so I dont get your point about the opponent lying on the ground.

SBH B always had hitbox-issues against some characters when they were lying still.
 
Sacharja said:
@Super_Villain

You also get better block-data and an actual TC. Old WS B didnt hit grounded either so I dont get your point about the opponent lying on the ground.

SBH B always had hitbox-issues against some characters when they were lying still.
Click to expand...

Possibly we're talking about a different move... I thought WS and WR are used interchangeably, I'm referring to WR B which in SC4 is a hilt smash stun to SCH while SC3s is a long range sword swipe to SCH. Both seem about the same speed too, but this move is what I'm referring to hitting people on the ground. Are you talking about just regular B or ~SBH??
 
No, thats the move Im talking about.
WS B never hit grounded in ANY SC game. Looked like it should, but it didnt.
 
The only complaint I have against Siegfried SC3 vs Siegfried SC4 is only about his RO power and SRSH A. 3A pushed harder to the edge in SC3, getting easy far ring outs; also 2A+B was an option for RO in the corner, now that move have similar unsafe properties and no RO; in SC4 CH 3~SCH A+B is a real option for RO, but Namco could add the move SCH A+B from SC3 that was mid (changing the command for the new move as A+K or 6A+B) and that would be an awesome add for the move-list in SC4.

Also my greatest complaint its about SRSH A... this move was my triumph card a lot of times in SC3: it was mid, had frames advantage and Knockdown on CH (finishing the combo with SBH A+B for easy RO too)... in fact the best Siegfried is from SC3:AE; Offmatic already did a mood version of SC3:AE for PS2 so I will enjoy a lot with this version, but as far as I can see the nerfing in most character help Siegfried SC4 more than any add or change in the move-list since SC3.

And talking about WR B, this move is awesome in SC4 and was awesome in SC3 too; I mean that two different versions of the same command are build in a solid way to help improve the game for the character.

I want to make some changes in this character, but if I get the same kind of fun I get every time I use to play as Siegfried I will be happy enough.
 
My experienced Sig wish list:
1. SC3's RSH'A and with G-cancel, or hold 8_2 to cancel twirl to SCH.
2. SC3's 2A+B RO.
3. SSH'[A+B] to end in RSH to set range mixups.
4. SSH'B's GI to GI horizontal mids too.
5. SSH'[ K ] to end in SCH.
6. SC2's 6B~4B+K cancel.
7. SSH's 4B+K jump while facing opponent.
8. 44B~G and SBH'A+B~G cancels to be faster.
9. SC3's BT-B+K from ground at anytime when laying down 'face-down-foot-towards' and 'face-up-head-towards'.
10. 44K to has a just input to land on your feet, like Yoshi's flying high landing stomp move.
11. 236B to have chargeable option.
12. SC3's SCH'A+B and put SC4's in SCH'A+K like striker said.
 
Jink Every one of your suggestions would make Seig a more powerful character. Does this mean you think he is under powered atm? I mean this is what you would currently change about him yeah? SSH'[A+B] to end in RSH to set range mixups and SC3's BT-B+K from ground at anytime when laying down 'face-down-foot-towards' and 'face-up-head-towards' sound a little broken.
 
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