There were no "Good old days". SC Changes (often and drastically)

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IdleMind

BANNED FOREVER
It's impossible to be a purist about Soul Calibur.

The series sees so many fundamental changes in each iteration that it's hardly the same game from one to the next, but for a few core elements consistent through each game... but that doesn't stop people from trying to wield "SC ought to go back to SC1/2/3/4 because that was REAL Calibur" like it was a club of rightness. It isn't, infact it makes the people who do this look extremely ignorant. As of late, people are of course doing this about SC5, and of course, it's the same tired and flawed argument....

Below I will describe the changes between each iteration of SC, to show you definitively, there is no "good old days" to cling onto, as each SC is so different from each other.

Soul Blade/Edge

Since this was the progenitor of the series, it needs to be understood that this games basis for comparison isn't really to anything else, but merely a starting point from which to compare Soul Calibur 1. If anything, comparing it to Tekken 2/3 would be a better starting point. That said, I will simply move on to SC1.

Soul Calibur

The original Soul Calibur is as different from Soul Blade as a game reasonably could be. The roster was sort-of new, some of the newer characters being shake-ups of Soul Blade characters, with the originals still appearing. For example, Kilik from Seong-Mina, Astaroth from Rock, Xianghua from Hwang, etc.

Gameplay wise, this saw the introduction of 8 way run, and true 3d gameplay, as opposed to the 2.5d character-tether that Soul Blade ran on (and Tekken still does, by the way). It saw the introduction of Air Control, Ukemi, a throw break system that relied on guessing as opposed to reading (a concept that wasn't new, but was first introduced in Virtua Fighter). Astaroth's throws could not be Guard Impacted in SC1.

Ring Outs were held over from Soul Blade, and were perhaps the most brutal they had ever been in the entire series. Soul Charge existed in two forms, Spirit Charge (where one one would cancel the soul charge animation with a move or guard) and a full Soul Charge, both of which would alter some move properties.

The general pacing of the game was designed to be very offense oriented, in stark contrast to Tekken. Many moves were safe on block, plus frame low pokes and guard breaks saw to it that the aggressor was well rewarded. The Guard Impact system had 4 inputs, 6G/3G for a "Guard Impact" and 4G/1G for "Parry". Both gave the same advantage and both started the same post-GI state, with the exception of 4G/1G pulling in slightly.

A little know aspect of SC1 was "Weapon Stripping", where if during an attack you were to strike an opponents non-guarding weapon hitbox, the weapon would be knocked away. The system never saw much use and was very random. Also, the Weapon Break meter and Critical Edge attacks were removed, as were weapon breaks and their clone-hand to hand styles.

SC1 also saw the introduction of the 2g glitch and Step-G, two elements which would define the series' gameplay for the better part of the next 3 games. Though not fully explored in SC1, they would be in SC2.

The console version saw the allowance of Cervantes as a playable character.

Soul Calibur 2

Soul Calibur 2 in many ways was the "Tekken 3" of the SC series. Many old characters were left out of the initial ARC release; given younger, fresher replacements (that played somewhat similarly, but were not the same except to the most casual of observation.)

So what changed? A lot, actually.

Guard Impact got rid of 2 superfluous inputs, becoming a simple and clean 6G/4G, one for high/mid, one for mid/low. Both gave the same advantage, just like SC1, and 4G had a slight pull in, just like SC1.

Soul Charge was changed so as to be able to move during Soul Charges, and the 2 level system from SC1 was expanded to three levels in SC2. Each "level" of Soul Charge added properties to moves, such as Guard Breaks, and Unblockable properties.

Guard Breaks themselves received a huge change in that now Guard Breaks created a Post-GI state. That being said however, almost all Guard Breaks were slow, easily steppable, or GI'able on reaction.

Astaroths's throws became Guard Impactable, and some throws became breakable on reaction due to an expanding of the throw break window, such that you could read the beginning of the animation then input a break.

Ring Outs and Air Control were both toned down, allowing for longer combos. Moves with a "slamdown" effect such as Xianghua's 1B did not allow Ukemi. Jumping became a popular tactic to get out of mixups, because getting up off the ground was so quick, you often recovered before the attacker did, or could air control safely away from pressure, not to mention the reduced damage from air-hits. Walls were added in, but much like jumping, knocking someone into a wall often resulted in them recovering before you did, so modified LESS DAMAGE wall combos needed to be created for many characters.

Frame wise, less moves were safe on block, and many pokes had their frame advantage lessened, low pokes especially got hit pretty hard. This trend would continue in each subsequent game. A "break" ssytem was added where active hitboxes of B moves would "break" A moves, but it didn't seem to do much more than randomly make some things whiff.

To top off this turtler's paradise, 2G and Step-G returned, nullifying the use of Guard Impact, and many horizontals to boot.

The console version saw the addition of fan-favorites Sophitia and Seong-Mina, we well as a Guest Character for each system (which were banned because of console exclusivity) and Necrid (a character owned by Todd MacFarlane). Necrid was banned under the infamous "Necrid Rule" of "Why? Because Fuck Necrid, that's why." Also he may have won Japanese Nationals with 1 move.

Console also saw the addition of Assassin (Hwang), Berserker (Rock), and Lizardman (ManLizard) as unlockable characters. Lizardman had a throw which did not have a break, 214B+G.

Also, if anyone cared, they got rid of weapon stripping. Nobody? Right.

Soul Calibur 3

Soul Calibur 2 bombed in JPN Arcades, and the ARC market was going into decline in other parts of the world. Thus, the SC team figured they'd change foci and bring the game direct to console, and make it a much more casual fighter. In an interview with EGM, when remarking on SC3's balance, they said "We didn't think people would care because they weren't spending money per play".

In case it wasn't obvious, SC3 was a balance clusterfuck. It was also a messy glitch festival... however, there were many many gameplay elements introduced in this game which differentiate it from SC2 in big ways:

First of all, a getup animation was added to Ukemi. This created the Ukemi state, and thus, tech traps. For the first time SC had a real okizeme game.

Secondly, Walls now had splat animations, allowing for longer combos on the wall. Low walls were also added, and one could ring people out over low walls.

Third, stuns began to chain. Using any move which has a stun property on CH prolonged the stun animation. Any wall hit also lent this property to moves. This led to casuals complaining about "stun chains" :P

Fourth, if hit while stepping, it now counted as a Counter Hit. The step-g window was toned down, but largely still existed and functioned as it did in SC2, making step extremely safe.

Fifth and lastly, Guard Break moves changed from being a Post-GI state to frame advantage... except sometimes Guard Break moves didn't actually give any advantage. Why? Good question.

The 2G glitch was removed and replaced with a newer shiner version, 22G or Variable Cancel (VC for short). VC allowed throw animations to be stopped mid way, post GI states to be cancelled out, even so far as to allow you to attack the person trying to GI you with guaranteed damage.

Speaking of GI's, GI returned to the SC1 state of 4 inputs for the same mechanical effect.

SC3 introduced many new characters to the series, and had every character in the series in the game with the exception of Han Myeon whoever from Soul Blade, and Guest Characters from SC2. SC2 infact, had no guest characters at all.

SC3 also introduced Create-a-Soul, and a bunch of half-baked styles with moves taken from original styles and Tekken animations to give your CaS character "unique" styles. Each style had a "bonus character" representative, and Li-Long and Hwang returned as CaS styles as well. Regular characters could be color edited only, however.

Soul Calibur 4

Soul Calibur 4 seemed like it was meant to be SC2 all over again, at least conceptually. The devs realized game balance mattered, and threw out many of the half baked ideas from SC3, and changed the mechanics around quite a bit!

SC4 introduced Critical Finishes, which were a subset of the Soul Crush system. The Soul Gauge was an orb which basically denoted your Guard Strength. Once depleted, causing a Soul Crush, you could do a Critical Finish which would end the round instantly. The thought was this would discourage turtling. It didn't, really.

Guard Impact stayed at 4 inputs, but each input now had an extra meaning as 6G/3G damaged the opponents SG gauge, and 4G/1G healed yours. 6G/3G created a post GI state, and 4G/1G grounded the opponent, giving no advantage but resetting the situation. As a bonus, GI actually worked as intended for the first time in 2 games...

This was because the 2G/VC glitch was finally removed, but oh what a cost. Soul Charge and While Landing moves went the way of the dinosaur, and the buffer system was dramatically reduced.

Only two new Soul Calibur characters were introduced for SC4, Hilde and Algol. Three guest characters were introduced however, Darth Vader, Yoda, and the Apprentice. Li-Long, Hwang, and all the bonus characters except Amy got the axe.

Air Control was reduced even further, and some moves were added which nullified Air Control altogether, making for much longer combos in this game compared to previous iterations.

Just Frame flashes were added, though Just Frame inputs existed as far back as SC1.

Online was a new feature of SC4, but lag rendered the game so different from console SC4 that it was considered a flop from a game-play perspective.

Hilde was the first character to have release-based charge inputs in a 3d fighting game. She was also SC's most broken character of all time, with her infamous "Doom Combo" allowing her to Ring Out from midscreen (or even further in some cases).

Step-G still existed, though the window was tweaked to be less forgiving. This created a big haves and have-nots at who could kill step effectively, and with what tools. In the end, the effect was still same, owing largely to the huge decrease in +frames on hit on many many moves.

The game also featured characters by prominent manga artists aping an existing character. Contrary to popular belief, these were not SC characters and will not be returning. Their hitbox problems rendered them banned from tournament play.

Create a Soul returned, but with a lack of unique styles. Regular characters could be edit with CaS parts.
Armor breaks added to the CaS system by allowing you to "break" an opponents CaS parts. The result was an increase in damage to the location of the broken part. It also resulted in ugly exploding clothes.

If you read through all that, I hope you learned something. I'm sure there are things I forgot, but this should state the point: There were no "Good Old Days" for SC. The series has as many faces as it has games. So the next time some jerk says "SC X is not REAL SC", send them here and slap them upside the head.**

** I am not responsible for you getting your ass beat for slapping people upside the head.
 
Did Soul Calibur 5 really introduce anything that evolved from an older original mechanic? Or did it just add gimmicky elements from other fighters to give the game attention this time? Personally I thought SC's original gameplay was better; it was at least consistant... no super meters, no ultra moves no nothing for nothing. (The older games just needed balance at most people say.) SCV tried to reinvent the series at a time where it didn't need to be. Thats why SC5 is a mess, it didnt even bring in anything original feature wise like the other games did.... what other game has "Guard Impacts"? What other game as Ukemi? Or a smooth 8-way Run? (Most fighters still use that choppy, stiff side step crap from the 90s.) Virtual fighter and Tekken sure as hell didn't need a "Super/Ultra/Mega" Meter. Neither did Soul Calibur. Not to mention SCV's art direction... all that flashy nonsense, all this "aura" effect and more lightning effects...all of this was just uneeded which I'm sure anyone would agree. All these gimmicky elements taken from 2D fighters makes the game look less "realisticly exaggerated" and more cartoony... just doesn't mesh well.

In Conclusion with my personal critique of this game shares some of those same sentiments listed above; there are definitely some positives about this game, if you look hard enough but overall I don't think its pure nostalgic to say the past games were better then this installment with reasons given. Production was drastically different with SCV and that may have been for the worse to some people. I think SC5's gameplay was too gimmicky. Brave edges work but Critical Edges kind of kill it for me. The "classic" gameplay of the past games is what made SC identifiable at least, thats why people like their "good-ole prequels." it WAS SC. Right now we're dripping into Street Calibur and thats why I dont think you can compare it too the past because its nothing like it. It isnt a series improvement... just a different direction. (Which I honestly hope we backtrack from)
 
In SCIV Sophitia could kill you in 2 hits. In SCV Omega can kill you in 3 hits. :P
Isn't Sophitia lovely ^^.

Now really, I think it is fair, Soul Calibur is a ever changing series, it was not a bad thing, it is nice.
But I think "the old good days." "SC X it is not a really SC" are not bad things nostalgia is nice and good to make people want to play the game again.
When a person talks about "good old days" is more the base, like the little things, but I will not elaborate so no flames come at me.
 
Idlemind forgot to mention about sc5, forgot to explain how terrible it is compared to the other calibur games. Go ahead and flame me im tired of hearing this alot " Balance Sc game in the series" which is just incorrect.

You have every right to be upset about how bad you are at the game.

The reason I didn't include SC5 on the list is because I didn't think it was necessary to explain given than SO MUCH had changed.

The crux of this post was to slap people in the face with their own nostalgia goggles.

Isn't Sophitia lovely ^^.

Now really, I think it is fair, Soul Calibur is a ever changing series, it was not a bad thing, it is nice.
But I think "the old good days." "SC X it is not a really SC" are not bad things nostalgia is nice and good to make people want to play the game again.
When a person talks about "good old days" is more the base, like the little things, but I will not elaborate so no flames come at me.

It must be a pain in the ass, literally, to sit on the fence so hard.
 
If you are after a fight, I'm sorry to disappoint you, just try to calm yourself down a little.

Look, here is the thing. People can agree, and people can disagree.... but to fashion a statement which allows one to keep their position by denying basic logic, but not wanting to confront the logic they are actively denying... that just baffles me.

Let me give you an example.

Someone says to you, I sure do think stealing is wrong.

You say, well, sure stealing can be wrong but I think stealing is a thing that exists.

What does this add to the conversation?

Nothing.

So if this is what you are going to do, just don't post.
 
So if this is what you are going to do, just don't post.
You know it wasn't my intention at all.
First thing first. I agree in a extent with you, but you are acting like the series don't even link together.
Sometimes I get me thinking, "Gee this don't look SC at all" of course.
The series always change so much, but until SC V the base was the same
 
You know it wasn't my intention at all.
First thing first. I agree in a extent with you, but you are acting like the series don't even link together.
Sometimes I get me thinking, "Gee this don't look SC at all" of course.
The series always change so much, but until SC V the base was the same

So, provide some evidence to back up your statement and then we can have *a discussion* GASP

However, if you did that you'd run the risk of having to commit to a position, and thus not able to fall back on opinion anymore. It's a scary thing.

My thesis is pretty well backed up by the OP, and it isn't that I think the series doesn't link together. I'm saying the difference from SC4 to 5 is no more drastic than the difference from SC2 to 3, or SB to SC1. I'm saying difference is par for the course and people need to realize that and stop whining.
 
So, provide some evidence to back up your statement and then we can have *a discussion* GASP

However, if you did that you'd run the risk of having to commit to a position, and thus not able to fall back on opinion anymore. It's a scary thing.
I'm not afraid to discuss.
Ok take Soul Blade SC I, II, III and IV. We have games that have (Story wise) a darker and more gloomy atmosphere, the characters were more serious, and even if one says they were cliche but at least were not a bunch of silly teens that seems to pop culture based for a game.
Gameplay, the series stays the same, the speed may have slowed and accelerated but the game never suffered so much of changes. (Soul Charge in SC IV and Gauge CF...."
Content, Soul Calibur once was the game with more thing o do besides the fighting , but have less and less each game.
 
I'm not afraid to discuss.
Ok take Soul Blade SC I, II, III and IV. We have games that have (Story wise) a darker and more gloomy atmosphere, the characters were more serious, and even if one says they were cliche but at least were not a bunch of silly teens that seems to pop culture based for a game.
Gameplay, the series stays the same, the speed may have slowed and accelerated but the game never suffered so much of changes. (Soul Charge in SC IV and Gauge CF...."
Content, Soul Calibur once was the game with more thing o do besides the fighting , but have less and less each game.

Bolded for emphasis.

Did you even READ the OP? Do you have any idea how much the gameplay changed from iteration to iteration?
I have to speculate you are inserting your own bias/lack of perception in to a generalization to serve your own point of view.
 
Bolded for emphasis.

Did you even READ the OP? Do you have any idea how much the gameplay changed from iteration to iteration?
I have to speculate you are inserting your own bias/lack of perception in to a generalization to serve your own point of view.
Ok, lets pretend that your analysis is perfect. You can feel the differences between games.
So what, my point of view it is mine, like you said we can agree or disagree.
The reason why I dislike this is not because I can't stand my ground.
Is because people get/are mad over anything you say, if it makes you mad, I'm really sorry but this is my position,
so to you know, I played every SC but SC I, so I have some knowledge, and I'm not distorting anything to serve me.
 
Ok, lets pretend that your analysis is perfect. You can feel the differences between games.
So what, my point of view it is mine, like you said we can agree or disagree.
The reason why I dislike this is not because I can't stand my ground.
Is because people get/are mad over anything you say, if it makes you mad, I'm really sorry but this is my position,
so to you know, I played every SC but SC I, so I have some knowledge, and I'm not distorting anything to serve me.

Look, when you present evidence, you argue evidence. Not how you feel. How you "feel" is worthless to me.

I'm not upset or even mad. I'm simply saying that stating your opinion in a discussion with presented evidence is less than worthless.
 
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