Discussion in 'Tira' started by Violent_Vodka, Mar 27, 2012.
Freakysound mains Tira in SCV. I've played him and I think it's 6:4 in Ivy's favor.
one thing vs Siegfried...after you block his 3(B), as long as you're not in range of his SCH K, JS 6AB will beat out SCH A and SCH B and get a CH.
Care to elaborate why? Well, Ivy is good at nullifying mixups with her reverses, so you have to play reverse-reverse mixups, but still, 6-4?
Tira vs Astaroth
Astaroth's three main threats: His throws, Range, and Damage
Moreover, Astaroth poses a huge threat when players are facing him via close combat. If players are excessively defensive when being pressured by Astaroth, then his grabs tend to manifest and within seconds it could be over.
Common Astaroth Grab Combos:
Flight Of The Wicked into Apocalypse Cannon
63214B+G > 22bA+B+K
Astaroth's Critical Edge into Apocalypse Cannon
236236A+B+K > 22B
These two grab combos begin with high throws. In order to avoid being subject to one of these when playing Tira (or any other character) , you have two options; crouch or throw break. In this case, it would be better to throw break since Astaroth can catch opponents out with his 2A+G, A+B+K / 2B+G, A+B+K crouching throw combos.
When facing Astaroth throw breaking is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL.
Common Astaroth Attacks:
From playing numerous Astaroth players, these are the common attacks I have come across
Moves that can be sidestepped
22B (Hades Cannon)
66K , 66K,A+B+K (Apocalypse rush)
9B+K (Flying Axe)
236B+K (Demented Moon)
44B (Canyon Creation)
66K (Bull Rush)
44K(Lower Command Kick)
Updraft Stance, and Spacing
1AA, (Double Discus) , 1AB (Discus Breaker) : Moves such as these require you to be a safe distance from Astaroth. With perfect timing using Updraft ( 8B+K ) followed by Talon Thrust ( B while in Updraft) to intercept, and strike down Astaroth.
You can also use the updraft technique to beat out Astaroth's horizontal attacks, as he is considerably slower than the majority of the cast.
Updraft, Sidestepping, Spacing, Taking advantage of Tira's speed, and Throw breaking are key feats to taking down Astaroth.
Hope I helped :)
My impression of the match-up is similar to Ivy vs Tira in SC4. Of course, Tira is now stronger and Ivy is weaker but generally she still has problem with Ivy's zoning. Tira can't punish Ivy very well because of the pushback + range, Ivy on the other hand can punish Tira quite well with 6B8K and 1B BE. Updraft can be easily countered on reaction with Ivy's 6B8/6B8 BE for major damage.So she can't make her way in easily without getting some damage or getting her guard damaged in the process.
I still don't know this match up extremely well but right now I think Ivy has a slight advantage. Tira can outdamage her in GS but the difference is not that big I guess.
i agree with Ring. it is about 6:4 in Ivy's favor. tho i'm interpreting this from a more theoretical perspective since i don't fight a lot of Ivys.
i used to main ivy in SC4 and tried to main her again in SCV but found i just don't connect with her new moves. anyway that's beside the point. Ivy is good at dealing with same situations that Tira is good at, but Ivy can do it better. furthermore, Ivy has got range and zoning that Tira don't. the only three good range moves for Tira that i can think of (at the moment) is 6B, WR A and JS 66AA. 6B is easily side stepped, WR A requires iFC which would also increase its frame slightly and 66AA is unsafe, unlike some of Ivy's moves.
What Tira is good at is in the close range combat and damage mainly from GS. but if you vs a good Ivy, Tira would have 2 main problems:
1) she would have a hard time getting close and staying close. ivy would chip away tira's life while she's trying to get in, but would be pushed away as soon as she got close. and tira would have to start all over again.
2) getting to GS and staying in GS long enough to do damage. opponents can manipulate Tira's mood using the low health auto mood swing. Tira would spend efforts in changing to GS only to find opponent releasing a high damaging combo, making Tira switch back to JS.
to counter this, i only think of one word "patience".
you wait for an opening, and don't rush.
don't force change. be comfortable in JS. don't use a move or combo because it can change tira's mood, use it because it's the right move to use. esp avoid mood swing move near and after half health.
once you are in GS, don't rush in to do major damage. you still need to watch and wait for an opening before making your move.
it might be better to use GS 66B to get lower combo damage but longer overall damage, rather than using 666B for a high burst damage and then switch back to JS. the only exception is after half-health, because remember, at low health you get auto-switch, which you can also force by using self-damage moves.
this is why i think it's 6:4 in ivy's favor. ivy has some advantage but not too much. if Tira's careful, she can win. and if you are lucky, tira can decimate ivy.
found something interesting vs Phyrra...JS 4K will interrupt the second hit of her 66B BE, but GS 4K will trade and you'll still get launched. Just another option to add to GI and JG :)
That's weird. They're the same speed. o.o;
I was surprised too! It's definitely strange. However, I just discovered that GS 44A will evade and counter the second hit of Phyrra's 66B BE...so I guess it all evens out lol
Does 2A interrupt? It's also i12, so.. Well. I'll have to start practicing that.
maybe it's a bug? tho i'm not sure if it's the JS 4K that's the bug or the GS 4K....
so far, it seems that your options against Phyrra's 66B BE besides GI and JG are JS 4K, GS 44A and CE (both versions)...2A doesn't work though.
That's so weird.. I don't get this game. x.x;
It might be the GS 4K that's the bug because it's actually on the punishment thread.
i hope so. because this punishment might to too powerful for Tira to have. (joking) XD
guaranteed CH with massive damage potential if mood swing triggers.
Cervantes is the one character who consistently gives me the most trouble. Anyone have any good general tips in this match-up?
You can easily counter Cervantes's Geo Da Ray ( ) with Glass Slippers; Tira's back throw since his attack leaves him backturned. There's one tip lol :P
I have played this one a lot. Cervantes has an awful lot of tools, so you need to adapt depending on which ones he's abusing.
Step to your right against most of his stuff. Don't throw out random attacks from long range because he can shoot at you with little risk. If you are stepping a lot he will either stop attacking, or use 66A or 33A. These are both high so you can risk crouching or using TC attacks if you are sure you have baited him into it.
At mid range it's pretty hard. Tira can't punish aB from here (maybe can do 3K, but not after blocking at tip range). To be honest I don't know what to do about aB spam, for me it is one of the stupidest attacks in the game. If you have any tips feel free to share.
Close range is where Tira is strongest against Cervantes (in GS). Cervantes has a really strong mid/throw mix-up but Tira's isn't bad either. From here you can punish aB with GS 3B, so try to force him to use it with frame traps and spam. His 1AB annoyingly pushes you out to mid range, but if you get one lucky guess and block it, you can make him hesitant to ever use it again.
Generally don't step too much at close range against Cervantes, especially if your opponent can do the full CH 1AB JF combo
Thank you for the info. Even in SCIV, I hated fighting Cervantes, and I dislike this match-up even more than Viola. He always does seem have a lot of good tools at his disposal. I'll keep working at it though, thanks again!
I forget, can't you do GS B+K against the second hit of Cervantes' aB if the first hit whiffs?
*needs to memorize sooooooo much more shit*
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