Viola General Discussion / Q&A

Have not heard much on the Viola ban lately. Any important news on that? And btw this forum has been without a SA mod for a month now :/ How is it still so organized?
 
DrakeAldan said:
I started messing with the character after all this hubbub to see how it is on the other side.

She's got... no range. And she can't punish. And SET 6B+K at mid-range seems like an exercise in futility. And it feels like I have to be kissing the opponent for ToD setups to actually come through. And it's like I can't set anything up at all if the other guy is going 100% aggro right through disadvantage.

This is hard work, a lot of stuff can go wrong. It feels like aside from a certain few niche situations she doesn't really have the tools that everybody else has.

It appears to me that what LP said- "Viola appears broke... when she's winning." is starting to ring true for me now... Maybe I am not good enough to see otherwise??
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It's true, she has a lot of weaknesses and this is what can make her bad match ups such an uphill battle.

And it's like suddenly these niche combos that require 3-4 bars suddenly make her invincible.
 
taffertier said:
It's true, she has a lot of weaknesses and this is what can make her bad match ups such an uphill battle.

And it's like suddenly these niche combos that require 3-4 bars suddenly make her invincible.
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Bad matchups are always an uphill battle.

The question isn't whether she has weaknesses, but if her strengths outweigh them. And in the case of "niche combos" it clearly does. For how safe they are, you don't really get punished for trying. Where if you do confirm a hit, you get 80-100%. If you end early, you're still getting over 50% with 1 bar, and around 75% with 2.
 
Destinizish said:
Bad matchups are always an uphill battle.

The question isn't whether she has weaknesses, but if her strengths outweigh them. And in the case of "niche combos" it clearly does. For how safe they are, you don't really get punished for trying. Where if you do confirm a hit, you get 80-100%. If you end early, you're still getting over 50% with 1 bar, and around 75% with 2.
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Hey i know we haven't had the best conversations in the past.....but how do u feel about what france is doing with viola? u know banning her n stuff. Whats your take on it
 
what are some things i should do against players w/ against viola? my only real thing so far is just try to play a safe punishment game since they know they can duck the orb recall.
 
JustinAkatsuki said:
Hey i know we haven't had the best conversations in the past.....but how do u feel about what france is doing with viola? u know banning her n stuff. Whats your take on it
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I've said before - once ToD combos were found, and several different entrances to them - a ban is justified. It might not be the most powerful combo (though I do think it is, some people don't agree and think it's too niche a combo), but the fact they exist make the character problematic. Especially considering there might still be more to find, which can open up entire new cans of worms. So if people decide she's banworthy, that's fine, a ban is justified. If people find she isn't banworthy, then whatever, it's fine if they want to deal with it.
 
I think Viola's a very momentum based character and that plays a factor in people thinking she's broken. Once she gets all cylinders rolling it's hard to stop her like Nightmare or Maxi. She only looks broken when she's winning. As for her ToD combos, they're pretty difficult to do imo. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like the time window to do moves gets smaller and smaller with each BE. I'm not gonna try to argue about this ban nonsense but I think it's pretty easy to shut Viola down. A ToD is reasonable punishment for a player to let her in thier face. It's part of your matchup knowledge. Stay away from Astaroth's tip range, watch Ivy's stepkill at mid, back off of Aeon near the edge of the ring, and keep your distance from Viola.
 
Captain_Insano said:
I think Viola's a very momentum based character and that plays a factor in people thinking she's broken. Once she gets all cylinders rolling it's hard to stop her like Nightmare or Maxi. She only looks broken when she's winning. As for her ToD combos, they're pretty difficult to do imo. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like the time window to do moves gets smaller and smaller with each BE. I'm not gonna try to argue about this ban nonsense but I think it's pretty easy to shut Viola down. A ToD is reasonable punishment for a player to let her in thier face. It's part of your matchup knowledge. Stay away from Astaroth's tip range, watch Ivy's stepkill at mid, back off of Aeon near the edge of the ring, and keep your distance from Viola.
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I don't think you can say, "Ivy's step kill will 100% you off a safe move." or "Astaroth's tip range will 100% you off a safe move"

In this case, reward highly outweighs risk, hence the problem. It doesn't matter if the combo is difficult (which BTW, it's not, really. I know several players who would be able to get it 100% of the time). It doesn't matter if she still has bad matchups or certain ways to be shut down. The problem is that her moveset is inherently problematic, and risk vs reward is heavily in her favor in all of these situations.
 
I actually go forward. Its a bad idea to stay long range from ivy and other people. So i just try mixups and 4b+k when i know its gonna work and grab ;p
 
Destinizish said:
It doesn't matter if she still has bad matchups or certain ways to be shut down. The problem is that her moveset is inherently problematic, and risk vs reward is heavily in her favor in all of these situations.
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But isnt the risk reward only heavily in her favor when she has 1 bars+ and in guaranteed set ups where the opponent must guess? Otherwise you said yourself that she is taking big risks throughout the match, and the reward only gets skewed during certain moments where meter comes into play, which is very arbitrary.
 
taffertier said:
But isnt the risk reward only heavily in her favor when she has 1 bars+ and in guaranteed set ups where the opponent must guess? Otherwise you said yourself that she is taking big risks throughout the match, and the reward only gets skewed during certain moments where meter comes into play, which is very arbitrary.
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You're acting like she's the only character who needs to build meter to deal damage. The amount of damage she gets out of her meter expenditure is much more than any other character (barring Algol, but his is off 44B, which is considerably harder to land than a 6B+K mixup).
 
Slade said:
You're acting like she's the only character who needs to build meter to deal damage. The amount of damage she gets out of her meter expenditure is much more than any other character (barring
Algol, but his is off 44B, which is considerably harder to land than a 6B+K mixup).
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That's not what i said. I know her damage with meter is big, but what i said was that Dest is saying in all the situations where she get her bomb combos from 6B+K that the risk / reward will always be in her favor because of this. Which is like saying Viola will always have a BE available or enough meter to kill, and that off of nearly all 6B+K situations she will have the risk / reward advantage, like some characters dont have moves to get them out of these situations. Like Ivy for instance, who has several ways around 6B+K set ups that are completely unpunishable by Viola.
 
taffertier said:
That's not what i said. I know her damage with meter is big, but what i said was that Dest is saying in all the situations where she get her bomb combos from 6B+K that the risk / reward will always be in her favor because of this. Which is like saying Viola will always have a BE available or enough meter to kill, and that off of nearly all 6B+K situations she will have the risk / reward advantage, like some characters dont have moves to get them out of these situations. Like Ivy for instance, who has several ways around 6B+K set ups that are completely unpunishable by Viola.
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The risk/reward is heavily in her favor regardless. Meter makes it outlandishly in her favor.
 
Speaking of match-ups, how does she stand when fighting either of the Pyrrhas? Or Ivy? If someone would be so kind as to give me a list of Pros and Cons, I would very much appreciate it :)
 
xXSoulCaliburXx said:
Speaking of match-ups, how does she stand when fighting either of the Pyrrhas? Or Ivy? If someone would be so kind as to give me a list of Pros and Cons, I would very much appreciate it :)
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I never heard the results of the Viola ban. Did it go through? And could someone explain to me why a whole character gets banned and not just the TOD combo? If everyone can at least agree that combo/loop "A" is unfair or against the spirit of competition; why don't they just rule that using combo "A" will forfeit the round to the opponent? Problem solved right?
 
DrakeAldan said:
I started messing with the character after all this hubbub to see how it is on the other side.

She's got... no range. And she can't punish. And SET 6B+K at mid-range seems like an exercise in futility. And it feels like I have to be kissing the opponent for ToD setups to actually come through. And it's like I can't set anything up at all if the other guy is going 100% aggro right through disadvantage.

This is hard work, a lot of stuff can go wrong. It feels like aside from a certain few niche situations she doesn't really have the tools that everybody else has.

It appears to me that what LP said- "Viola appears broke... when she's winning." is starting to ring true for me now... Maybe I am not good enough to see otherwise??
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I encourage alot of people to actually see how she plays, I use Viola and IK she's not that good. People can easily beat her just by strafing alone, she has no type of range either.. I remember I got beaten by a Nightmare because I couldn't get in on him to even land a hit :/
 
leo728 said:
I encourage alot of people to actually see how she plays, I use Viola and IK she's not that good. People can easily beat her just by strafing alone, she has no type of range either.. I remember I got beaten by a Nightmare because I couldn't get in on him to even land a hit :/
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Viola can be very good, it just depends on who uses her, as with every character. And she does have some anti-step moves (We don't use strafing in our terminology; instead it's sidestep as with most other games) such as 66AAB, 22A+B, 4A, and so on. For Nightmare, you just have to try not to let him do much by pestering him and being persistent (at least that's what I do). :)
 
leo728 said:
I encourage alot of people to actually see how she plays, I use Viola and IK she's not that good. People can easily beat her just by strafing alone, she has no type of range either.. I remember I got beaten by a Nightmare because I couldn't get in on him to even land a hit :/
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I used to think like that... but I figured that I thought like that because I am not a great player (No offense). If you learn how to JG and get her combos down, she's too good.

And this is another reason why she's so broken:


You can JG the GI of orb attacks.
 
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