Synalon
[12] Conqueror
It looked in her reveal video like it was unblockable in soul charge
SCVI Ivy's Move Analysis
- Thread starter Frayhua
- Start date
Nofacekill3r
[11] Champion
Ivy E3 Build Notes:
General Early Impressions/Opinions:
Whereas past iterations of Ivy focused on her versatility, she now seems primarily focused on long range zoning. She has good mixups from mid to long range and usually relies on GI/RE/movement to defend herself up close.
Close Range
AA: Doesn’t jail, 2ndhit can be ducked. The 2ndhit is always the Whip followup from SC2. The 2ndhit can lethal hit, backdashers I believe. Single A is an ok interrupt. From my testing does combo on Normal Hit, but not sure if hit confirmable.
BB: Also doesn’t jail. You can’t sidestep or RE (since RE isn’t frame 1), but you can GI. Single B still has decent range and its fine to use it by itself. From my testing does combo on Normal Hit, but not sure if hit confirmable. Has a Reversal Edge built in followup.
3K/3[K]: Good ‘ol 3K. The charged version lethal hits.
66K/66[K]: Not sure how plus 66[K] is. It goes into SE, which is a good mixup stance in soul charge.
2A: It’s now always the WP version. You don’t wanna be using this close.
214B: still the same but it goes into SE again. More on SE in a bit.
11B: SC2 3B in every sense. Don’t even think about sc5 3B, this move isn’t close.
Summon Suffering: Unblockable high. It appears that it cannot be broken. The buffer window is basically like sc4, so you can’t get too creative with it. Luckily for some, the directional inputs are the same as sc2. The inputs are somewhat strict and you cannot just circle the stick 3 times (according to Bibulus’ testing).
Calamity Symphony: I didn’t find the notation for this, but it appears you CAN just circle the stick for this one. It’s not unblockable so be careful of RE.
Jump moves: No more jumping toe poke. Jump B is always the 3 hit string that leads into the Attack throw launch.
Stomp: input is 1K now. Does more damage than sc2 stomp, but much less than sc4 stomp.
6BB/6BA: The range on 6B is reduced from sc5, but it has followups now, I believe the A is high. In soul charge it’s a disgusting NC that does maybe 70 damage.
Ivy lick: same ivy lick, same input
22B/22[ B ]: just like sc5, except 22 goes into SE. Combo options are varied, for example, you can do 5 hit JF, SE 8B+K (lick), even SE AAA into stomp at certain distances. I believe the 5hit JF is the strongest option.
3B: Same as sc4 WP 66B, except launch instead of stun. Combos into ivy lick. Slightly slower than your average 3B but her hardest hitting close range whiff punisher.
6A: just like sc4 CL 3A
Overall, your up close tools are inferior to the majority of the cast and you’ll probably just want to use the system-level tools to defend yourself and run away. Notable exception where she feels strong is when you can land a GI, since 3B/Summon Suffering is a strong post GI mixup (probably mitigated by jumping opponents though, since neither fit into most GI windows). Note that the post GI window is usually short unless you land a near perfect GI, so no free launch mixups or grabs.
Mid/Long Range:
2/3A+G: Low attack throw, small circle on the ground. 3A+G has more range than 2A+G. Note that since it is a small point on the ground, this attack is EXTREMELY weak to movement. Good damage though, maybe about 55 damage. Does not hit grounded despite being a low. The reason I classified it as a low attack throw is because it cannot be broken. AFAIK you can cancel this move.
6[ B ] 2/8: Same stuff we all know and love
66[A]: This is a mid range step killing mid, with an immediate 2ndhit that is a long, and only long (close/mid deadzone) range hitting hori mid. Lethal hits steppers. It’s very easy to get punished hard by forward dashers for this reason, which also can get you killed by people predicting a long range 3A+G. Overall, expect people to be running in your face all the time.
1A: Same as SC4.
1/2/3B+K: Ground poke stabby thing. Not sure if it hits mid or special mid. Might be useful to hit people trying to duck your 2/3A+G.
4B: Sc4 WP 6B
4b7: Sc4 WP 6bA+B (I think that’s the notation). Spinny thing.
6A: Old CL 6A. Not great.
6[A]: SC5 6[A], decent option to stop people you’re confident will step without committing to the risker 66[A]. Obviously not a true mixup with 2A+G though.
Serpents Embrace:
4A(I think that’s the notation): The old low ankle grab. Notably it’s much faster now. The opponent can’t be asleep at the wheel vs this.
BBB/B : B : B : B : B: Same as sc5 whip series.
AAA: same as sc2 SE A series, but now appears to jail. Nice way to somewhat safely exit stance (careful of RE/GI).
236A236A: Just like sc4 SE A. Unblockable in soul charge.
K/[K]: can exit SE, or stay in.
Soul Charge:
She generally has an improved whiff punish and mixup game which complement each other nicely. Whiff punish with 6BB (big damage), or mixup with 66[K]. The knockback wave often immediately positions the opponent for a 66[A]/2A+B mixup. Her soul charge seems pretty strong overall given how well she synergizes with any form of knock back or spacing advantage.
Critical Edge:
Auto GI. Does not appear to start frame 1 (I got hit out of it several times by pokes). Unsafe on block. Probably one of the weaker CE.
Sorry I didn’t have time to discover more information. I had to share the setups with people at E3 AND leave early so it was difficult. If I remember more info, I’ll add it later. Feel free to ask me any questions you have and I’ll see if I can answer.
Personal Opinion: I got some criticism for saying that this build of Ivy is lackluster, and that’s fine, but I’ll just say that all impressions I give are obviously premature just as are everyone elses opinions and “tier lists”. Of course I know I could be wrong. With that out of the way, I feel that Ivy has lost a lot of what made her solid in the long term. This version of Ivy definitely seems like she could be strong in a b03 due to the sheer number of ways she can mindgame you from different ranges. However, she lacks consistency up close (and you WILL be playing up close due to how nerfed her pushback is and how fast forward movement is in the current sc6 build) unlike her past iterations, and lost several of her whiff punishers and safe pokes. Notable examples of missing moves are 2A, sc5 66A, sword form 3B, 44B(which was a decent whiff punish in sc3), 4B (old fast high poke), 6B has nerfed range, 2A+B has nerfed hit properties, etc. Pushback is nerfed on several moves, etc. But again, it’s just my 2 day impression. As we know Ivy has a history of starting off weak and aging like fine wine as the meta develops and new tech is discovered.
General Early Impressions/Opinions:
Whereas past iterations of Ivy focused on her versatility, she now seems primarily focused on long range zoning. She has good mixups from mid to long range and usually relies on GI/RE/movement to defend herself up close.
Close Range
AA: Doesn’t jail, 2ndhit can be ducked. The 2ndhit is always the Whip followup from SC2. The 2ndhit can lethal hit, backdashers I believe. Single A is an ok interrupt. From my testing does combo on Normal Hit, but not sure if hit confirmable.
BB: Also doesn’t jail. You can’t sidestep or RE (since RE isn’t frame 1), but you can GI. Single B still has decent range and its fine to use it by itself. From my testing does combo on Normal Hit, but not sure if hit confirmable. Has a Reversal Edge built in followup.
3K/3[K]: Good ‘ol 3K. The charged version lethal hits.
66K/66[K]: Not sure how plus 66[K] is. It goes into SE, which is a good mixup stance in soul charge.
2A: It’s now always the WP version. You don’t wanna be using this close.
214B: still the same but it goes into SE again. More on SE in a bit.
11B: SC2 3B in every sense. Don’t even think about sc5 3B, this move isn’t close.
Summon Suffering: Unblockable high. It appears that it cannot be broken. The buffer window is basically like sc4, so you can’t get too creative with it. Luckily for some, the directional inputs are the same as sc2. The inputs are somewhat strict and you cannot just circle the stick 3 times (according to Bibulus’ testing).
Calamity Symphony: I didn’t find the notation for this, but it appears you CAN just circle the stick for this one. It’s not unblockable so be careful of RE.
Jump moves: No more jumping toe poke. Jump B is always the 3 hit string that leads into the Attack throw launch.
Stomp: input is 1K now. Does more damage than sc2 stomp, but much less than sc4 stomp.
6BB/6BA: The range on 6B is reduced from sc5, but it has followups now, I believe the A is high. In soul charge it’s a disgusting NC that does maybe 70 damage.
Ivy lick: same ivy lick, same input
22B/22[ B ]: just like sc5, except 22 goes into SE. Combo options are varied, for example, you can do 5 hit JF, SE 8B+K (lick), even SE AAA into stomp at certain distances. I believe the 5hit JF is the strongest option.
3B: Same as sc4 WP 66B, except launch instead of stun. Combos into ivy lick. Slightly slower than your average 3B but her hardest hitting close range whiff punisher.
6A: just like sc4 CL 3A
Overall, your up close tools are inferior to the majority of the cast and you’ll probably just want to use the system-level tools to defend yourself and run away. Notable exception where she feels strong is when you can land a GI, since 3B/Summon Suffering is a strong post GI mixup (probably mitigated by jumping opponents though, since neither fit into most GI windows). Note that the post GI window is usually short unless you land a near perfect GI, so no free launch mixups or grabs.
Mid/Long Range:
2/3A+G: Low attack throw, small circle on the ground. 3A+G has more range than 2A+G. Note that since it is a small point on the ground, this attack is EXTREMELY weak to movement. Good damage though, maybe about 55 damage. Does not hit grounded despite being a low. The reason I classified it as a low attack throw is because it cannot be broken. AFAIK you can cancel this move.
6[ B ] 2/8: Same stuff we all know and love
66[A]: This is a mid range step killing mid, with an immediate 2ndhit that is a long, and only long (close/mid deadzone) range hitting hori mid. Lethal hits steppers. It’s very easy to get punished hard by forward dashers for this reason, which also can get you killed by people predicting a long range 3A+G. Overall, expect people to be running in your face all the time.
1A: Same as SC4.
1/2/3B+K: Ground poke stabby thing. Not sure if it hits mid or special mid. Might be useful to hit people trying to duck your 2/3A+G.
4B: Sc4 WP 6B
4b7: Sc4 WP 6bA+B (I think that’s the notation). Spinny thing.
6A: Old CL 6A. Not great.
6[A]: SC5 6[A], decent option to stop people you’re confident will step without committing to the risker 66[A]. Obviously not a true mixup with 2A+G though.
Serpents Embrace:
4A(I think that’s the notation): The old low ankle grab. Notably it’s much faster now. The opponent can’t be asleep at the wheel vs this.
BBB/B : B : B : B : B: Same as sc5 whip series.
AAA: same as sc2 SE A series, but now appears to jail. Nice way to somewhat safely exit stance (careful of RE/GI).
236A236A: Just like sc4 SE A. Unblockable in soul charge.
K/[K]: can exit SE, or stay in.
Soul Charge:
She generally has an improved whiff punish and mixup game which complement each other nicely. Whiff punish with 6BB (big damage), or mixup with 66[K]. The knockback wave often immediately positions the opponent for a 66[A]/2A+B mixup. Her soul charge seems pretty strong overall given how well she synergizes with any form of knock back or spacing advantage.
Critical Edge:
Auto GI. Does not appear to start frame 1 (I got hit out of it several times by pokes). Unsafe on block. Probably one of the weaker CE.
Sorry I didn’t have time to discover more information. I had to share the setups with people at E3 AND leave early so it was difficult. If I remember more info, I’ll add it later. Feel free to ask me any questions you have and I’ll see if I can answer.
Personal Opinion: I got some criticism for saying that this build of Ivy is lackluster, and that’s fine, but I’ll just say that all impressions I give are obviously premature just as are everyone elses opinions and “tier lists”. Of course I know I could be wrong. With that out of the way, I feel that Ivy has lost a lot of what made her solid in the long term. This version of Ivy definitely seems like she could be strong in a b03 due to the sheer number of ways she can mindgame you from different ranges. However, she lacks consistency up close (and you WILL be playing up close due to how nerfed her pushback is and how fast forward movement is in the current sc6 build) unlike her past iterations, and lost several of her whiff punishers and safe pokes. Notable examples of missing moves are 2A, sc5 66A, sword form 3B, 44B(which was a decent whiff punish in sc3), 4B (old fast high poke), 6B has nerfed range, 2A+B has nerfed hit properties, etc. Pushback is nerfed on several moves, etc. But again, it’s just my 2 day impression. As we know Ivy has a history of starting off weak and aging like fine wine as the meta develops and new tech is discovered.
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fukou_da_man
[12] Conqueror
Thanks for the write up. Did you have fun? You seem to think she's not very good, but everything you posted makes me think to the contrary lol. She's even got a good 3B whiff punisher, now. Seems the lack of a 2A is a point for you, but I don't think a generic 2A is as necessary in SC6 as it was in SCV. Especially when she has moves like old 66(K) and 3(K) plus an unbreakable throw lol. The only move I'd miss personally is 66A, but with a good 3B I think it won't be missed too much.
TheGreenMachine
Viridia
Thank you very much for taking the time to gather all of this info and share it with us! Honestly, anything is better than the SC5 Ivy so I am thankful so many of her old moves have returned.
By chance would you know if God Whisper(the mid/low/mid A+B A) hits for the 3rd time and can stun like in 4? Or just the 2 hits like in 5? Also curious to see if Poison Leaf when held down extends the whip and launches them back, so they can be picked back up by Stinging Souls like in 4. I would also be interested to know if Spiral Punishment will be returning, loved to buffer CS and SS during that haha.
Thank you again!
By chance would you know if God Whisper(the mid/low/mid A+B A) hits for the 3rd time and can stun like in 4? Or just the 2 hits like in 5? Also curious to see if Poison Leaf when held down extends the whip and launches them back, so they can be picked back up by Stinging Souls like in 4. I would also be interested to know if Spiral Punishment will be returning, loved to buffer CS and SS during that haha.
Thank you again!
Nofacekill3r
[11] Champion
I had a ton of fun! The game is really flashy and hype. You could be right - Ivy might be amazing. I think it's just the fact that characters in a fighting game are compared against one another and not on their own merits so much. Ivy does have some good tools - I just think other characters are better right now especially given how strong movement is, and the fact that some of the previously strong close range tools like the ones you mentioned aren't suited to dealing with the new system mechanics (while other characters such as Taki are fully able to deal with them up close). Ivy isn't like Siegfried or Kilik - she has to be more careful when pressing buttons due to how niche most of them are. Looking forward to the impressions of others who end up playing her!
Nofacekill3r
[11] Champion
I'm really bad with move names...sorry. The mid/low/mid is more similar to the sc5 version where it's not a big reward for hitting it like it was in sc2/sc4.
fukou_da_man
[12] Conqueror
I see, thanks for clarifying your viewpoint. I gotta admit that the time between now and oct 19th feels kind of like wasted life lol.
350z
[09] Warrior
@Nofacekill3r A big thanks for your notes. Even though I haven't played the game, I could pretty much see that Ivy didn't have good tools up close. Actually, I thought that she was a liability up close, and I got a little worried that she might not be playable. Nonetheless, I'm hoping for the best. I definitely agree with your assessment of Ivy in your response to @fukou_da_man. She still seems fun to play and has some very specific tools, but at this point, it seems as though she'll need to be played a t high level to be played well. Which is what Ivy players are used to anyway (and older Ivy players are used to being rushed down; it was one of the only ways to deal with Ivy in past games).
At the same time, I hope @fukou_da_man is correct. @fukou_da_man, When I saw that there wasn't a 2A (SW 2A), I was confused--then nervous. I'm like you a little bit. That WP 3A as a punisher is going to be love. But when a character can't even punish with simple combos like AA or BB, or interrupt strings with 2A, then that character is hamstrung a bit. Don't you think? In SC3, Ivy couldn't punish things with simple AA or BB at times; however, she had the best 2A in the game. It was one of her major tools. 2A was a way to stop players from getting off. If her K buttons are good, then there's hope. But how do you think she'll be able to deal with rush down (if she remains similar to her current build)?
At the same time, I hope @fukou_da_man is correct. @fukou_da_man, When I saw that there wasn't a 2A (SW 2A), I was confused--then nervous. I'm like you a little bit. That WP 3A as a punisher is going to be love. But when a character can't even punish with simple combos like AA or BB, or interrupt strings with 2A, then that character is hamstrung a bit. Don't you think? In SC3, Ivy couldn't punish things with simple AA or BB at times; however, she had the best 2A in the game. It was one of her major tools. 2A was a way to stop players from getting off. If her K buttons are good, then there's hope. But how do you think she'll be able to deal with rush down (if she remains similar to her current build)?
S0Mi
[07] Duelist
So far so good - thank you @Nofacekill3r :)
To me it sounds like this Ivy will be a very clear case of damn hard to master xD
Close Range was always meh with Ivy, so most Ivy players are used to it.
There are still 4 months for us to wait, maybe she will get some adjustments.
To me it sounds like this Ivy will be a very clear case of damn hard to master xD
Close Range was always meh with Ivy, so most Ivy players are used to it.
There are still 4 months for us to wait, maybe she will get some adjustments.
Mage
I'll make you submit!
Thanks a lot NFK! Despite the removal of some previously great tools (e.g. a sword state 2A, 3B and jump B poke) it seems she is still great fun to play and with time could end up being great once the dust settles. Really appreciate the time you took to check Ivy out. Btw I didn't see you mention CS, is the input similar to SCV or is it back to the older inputs?
PlainCrane03
[04] Fighter
Thank you for the great write up, Nofacekill3r!
Did you ever get experiment with her new long ranged command grab?
Did you ever get experiment with her new long ranged command grab?
fukou_da_man
[12] Conqueror
With good movement and strong defensive options like RE or GI, it's of my opinion that a good 2A just isn't as necessary but like NFK said, we'll see as the game evolves.
AmyIntwined
[08] Mercenary
Thank you very much for sharing my Video... As I’ve stated in the Description, it is a very basic Analysis due to appealing to the Casual Audience as well. Have I had it upto me, I’d go much more in depth, but I had constraint the time in order to avoid overwhelmness to newcomers as well as keep it short & sweet. As well as not have been able to play the build at any point in time. I have been reading this info given by those whom have played the build and I am Very intrigued how different she is becoming. I’ve put the link of this thread in my Video’s description in order to raise much more awareness about this very informative thread, and to give newcomers/returning players a reliable source to follow. I wanted to say I appreciate the effort put into this thread of SCVI’s Ivy Moves in the latest build. And I cannot wait to play her upon release, am considerate things can change.
MuffinMan123
[10] Knight
Is this version of Ivy more similar to her 5 counterpart with only stance being the serpent's embrace? I didn't notice any stance transitions other than serpent's embrace. I was hoping they'd give her 3 moveset back since that's fairly versatile and not too complex.
Wait, you can block her iconic high throw now? Not only can you duck it, you can block it too? What's the point of using this then?
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dittO
[09] Warrior
thx @Nofacekill3r for your time to provide us with all this info
A couple of questions If you seem to remember:
1. can she do sc4 wp 1_2_3 b+k without SE (or only on SE)?
2. does she have sc4 wp 6 a+b (with UB)?
3. what about sc4 wp 1b?
4. CS range?
5. sc4 sw 22_88k or 2a+k (sweep)?
6. any other fast interrupt moves like sc4 sw 1a, or sc4 sw 1k (knee)?
thx again :)
A couple of questions If you seem to remember:
1. can she do sc4 wp 1_2_3 b+k without SE (or only on SE)?
2. does she have sc4 wp 6 a+b (with UB)?
3. what about sc4 wp 1b?
4. CS range?
5. sc4 sw 22_88k or 2a+k (sweep)?
6. any other fast interrupt moves like sc4 sw 1a, or sc4 sw 1k (knee)?
thx again :)
Constantius_II
[08] Mercenary
I’m sorry if i missed this anywhere, but does Ivy still have 6B8K?
Nofacekill3r
[11] Champion
It's still a throw, so no you can't block it. Summon suffering is simply an unblock-able high attack throw. The point of using it is that it appears the buffer window is longer (need somebody to confirm this).
1. Yes, the inputs are 7/8/9 B+K
2. Not sure
3. Yes
4. More than a regular throw
5. Yes, its 22K again.
6. Nope. I even believe the knee is slower now. Your best bet for an interrupt is single A.
Niwona
Let The Rhythm Hit 'Em
Remember! Pre-release is all about downplaying your character!
S0Mi
[07] Duelist
It looks like she uses this while rising - similar to Cervantes o.ô
@Nofacekill3r do you know the input for this move?
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