ChaosK
[13] Hero
It GI's all horizontals except kicks.
Siegfried Q&A / General Discussion
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Bastet
[12] Conqueror
66A
It's a high horizontal move (i33) that has an aGI window starting from i6 to i15 but quite ok if you ask me. The moves that it can aGI are horizontals only that are high, mid or low (s-mids and s-lows as well, as they are in between).
You could throw this move in combat but it is quite risky, as many duck it. See it is slow, telegraphed and that Guard crush property rings bells for the opponent. 66A can be used in strings (I've listed some in the punishment list) and it can lead to a range dependent combo (66A~3B).
But to be honest the best aGI that Siegfried has, imho, is in SBH that can lead to a 110 damage combo with half meter, 94 meterless. It aGIs low and mid horizontals, Pyrrhas' 8A+B, Ivy's WR B+K (suprisingly!), Xibas WD A+B, etc... Also it ducks the highs (those exceptions may be aGI-ed by 66A too, I need to test that, but the window being 9 frames can be a pain). As for SBH's window starts at around i7 and it lasts for a couple of seconds (Thanks Slayer!).
(I may move this thread to the Q&A thread, I believe it belongs there)
EDIT: You ninja ChaosK!
Der Lindwurm
Premium Member
I mostly use it when I think the opponent is going to step. Don't know exactly what's going on in their minds but if I guess if they've already decided they're going to take a few steps either way or are anticipating 66B or 66A+B they might still not have time to react when they see crackling lightning and the flash of green.
I haven't had much luck with the base hold, though I ought to be trying it more against Xiba in particular. I guess it's best to hit them with SBH B if they do attack and get impacted?
Solo
[14] Master
The only time I ever use 66A is when I know someone is going to do 2A after I hit with 1K. That is the only time and will always be the only time. I haven't found a use for it besides that.
ChaosK
[13] Hero
I only use it on extremely long range as step killer because the range is the only good thing about that move imo and might catch some people off guard.
Bastet
[12] Conqueror
Yes, if you get the auto impact, you have time for SBH B. So your combos will be like:
SBH B ~ 88BB = 94 damage
SBH B ~ 44(B) ~ SBH K BE = 110 damage
You may want to go for something else, it depends
SBH B ~ 88BB = 94 damage
SBH B ~ 44(B) ~ SBH K BE = 110 damage
You may want to go for something else, it depends
Bastet
[12] Conqueror
~ Double post - but this is to inform you about the SA ~
I've locked all the threads that were very old, just to prevent people bringing them to life. Also I've merged threads that were actually asking one question into this thread, so I would like people to try using this thread for their questions, unless that is highly important/informative. Also take a look at the remaining threads. Threads that are open can be used for new findings that have to do with Siegfried and his gameplay, matchups, combos etc. The combo and tech trap discussions have been merged because the combo thread already had tech trap findings.
We will update, change and retest stuff, as well as make more informative threads, discussions or posts that will help you advance your gameplay with Siegfried. We may need your help too in the future. We are all a team and need each other anyway.
As for this period, the punishment list will be finished soon. Only 4 characters remain after a month and a half of testing and tbh I have Nightmare ready, I just need to copy my findings from my notebook. Yoshi is halfway done and the rest are Maxi and Natsu. I'll do everything I can to finish it before I move out, as I'll need a new PS3 to test stuff. I would appreciate it if you guys would let me know here (by quoting me in this thread) or PMing me about any errors you may find (hopefully not XD) as we may get DLC characters according to some rumors and they'll need to be tested too, so that means that your posts in that thread may be deleted to keep all the characters together.
If you have any questions or disagree with something, let me know. Thanks Siegfriends!
Stryker
[10] Knight
Is there somebody who are using [4]_44K to do whiff punishment? this move would be thought to do that job since SCIII! this move have to include properties like RO! Why the hell you want this move to do wallsplash? SBH B~44K was a sweet RO in SC3/4! The range and the speed are good... maybe I can use it against Nightmare, Asta and Ivy...
Solo
[14] Master
I've gotten the RO with it like once in my life after a SCH B. Too bad it rung me out too and I fell slightly lower than them. Other than that I've seen no point to 44K. For hitting people in the air I prefer iagA or 3B (if it doesn't go through them).
To everyone: What are your thoughts about 22k(A). I'm thinking it may be a good whiff punish tool due to it being his quickest move from step and that it combos into SCH kBE, iagA for 80 damage. Not to mention SCH B will always be a force block on hit no matter where you hit with it. I'm trying to implement this into my game. I need to practice 22_885B+K too. Time that right and you'll catch people's step killers with SBH.
ChaosK
[13] Hero
Its a good tool in theory imo but its extremely short range (if you want the combo) and its rather high tendency to whiff the SCH B hurt it on the long run.
Solo
[14] Master
I'm just trying to be optimistic. :D
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Heaton
A Soul in the Purgatory
Recently, I began spamming the shit out of 22k(A) and 22kA2A. This shit gets very annoying, very fast. Frame wise, 22k(A) is the third best entrance into SCH on block - behind 66k(BE) and 3(B)/WR (B) - and is the only one that has canned strings after it. It's also the only horizontal, and the range isn't THAT bad. You should have more than enough time to re-align if you somehow become misaligned (it happens every now and again) after it's blocked, since they should be thinking about the strings you're going to do instead of being in SCH - at least, if you're training them to look for the strings and not for the stance entrance. If you happen to be close range, which isn't my recommendation, you can get a pretty good combo in SCH k(BE), or just get a bit of damage and push back if you can't - or don't want to - spend the meter.
On the other side of things, 22kA2A is amazing, and offends Pyrrha Ω players. The frames on 22kA2A are stupid good. +2 on hit, KND on CH, and -7 on block is amazing, and you still can complete the string if you think your yomi is up to snuff. Assuming you get a counter hit, 3(B) will combo at all but tip range, and there's probably other stuff that combos that I haven't tested. People who want to jump are highly discouraged by your other options; 22kA(A) is a bit annoying, and 22k(A) ~ SCH k(BE) is hilariously fatal. It's probably one of his best pokes.
EDIT: Hey, you want to know a secret about 22kA2A? It's -13 on Just Guard. That makes me feel good inside, since A) that's safe against roughly half of the cast, B) your opponent has to be on the ball and have meter to punish with the other half of the cast, and C) only α Patroklos can punish you hard meterless for it. So yeah, throw this out with the intention of your opponent doing Just Guard, and then launch them when you block their stupid bullshit, broken, needs-to-be-nerfed-harder i14 stab punisher. What a great secret, huh? Just don't tell Pyrrha Ω players. :) I FORGOT STABS ARE i13 FROM FC FUCK THIS GAME FUCK THIS CHARACTER I'M QUITTING SCV FOR HANDBALL
22kAA is also a thing, but used much less since generally people are going to be ducking, and it's high-high. 22kA(A) has essentially lost all of its use because SSH A+B is gone, and after blocking / ducking the second hit, they're most likely going to step in anticipation. That's good for going into a stance that you know they'll block the entrance to, and you know they'll respect the options in that stance - however, that applies to SCH and not SSH. You might get some mileage out of it (if you do, please tell me, because I have no idea how you'd get anything out of this move), but the high risk / low reward on 22kAA means it isn't worth using in most scenarios. Also, don't forget that 22kA(A) ~ SSH K is a combo near the wall / edge. And by that I mean it can only combo near the wall / edge, but why would you use it anywhere else?
I have hit {an anonymous benefactor} with 22kAAB once. It was a very bad night for {an anonymous benefactor}, and I'll probably never manage to do that again. {an anonymous benefactor} is the only person I have hit with this move since the release of SCIV. If you find some magical use for it, I am all ears.
So yeah, those are great. One quick note: the 22K versions are vastly inferior, and will probably get you stabbed really quickly. So don't fuck up your inputs. These are really easy on Hitbox, and I have no idea how hard they are for other people, but it shouldn't be too difficult on arcade stick, and pad can make use any shoulder button that has "A" in it - "A+B", "A+G", "A+B+K", and "A+K" should all work fine.
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In other news, I'd like all of you to say a prayer for ShenYuan, who has left Siegfried for Leixia.
On the other side of things, 22kA2A is amazing, and offends Pyrrha Ω players. The frames on 22kA2A are stupid good. +2 on hit, KND on CH, and -7 on block is amazing, and you still can complete the string if you think your yomi is up to snuff. Assuming you get a counter hit, 3(B) will combo at all but tip range, and there's probably other stuff that combos that I haven't tested. People who want to jump are highly discouraged by your other options; 22kA(A) is a bit annoying, and 22k(A) ~ SCH k(BE) is hilariously fatal. It's probably one of his best pokes.
EDIT: Hey, you want to know a secret about 22kA2A? It's -13 on Just Guard. That makes me feel good inside, since A) that's safe against roughly half of the cast, B) your opponent has to be on the ball and have meter to punish with the other half of the cast, and C) o
22kAA is also a thing, but used much less since generally people are going to be ducking, and it's high-high. 22kA(A) has essentially lost all of its use because SSH A+B is gone, and after blocking / ducking the second hit, they're most likely going to step in anticipation. That's good for going into a stance that you know they'll block the entrance to, and you know they'll respect the options in that stance - however, that applies to SCH and not SSH. You might get some mileage out of it (if you do, please tell me, because I have no idea how you'd get anything out of this move), but the high risk / low reward on 22kAA means it isn't worth using in most scenarios. Also, don't forget that 22kA(A) ~ SSH K is a combo near the wall / edge. And by that I mean it can only combo near the wall / edge, but why would you use it anywhere else?
I have hit {an anonymous benefactor} with 22kAAB once. It was a very bad night for {an anonymous benefactor}, and I'll probably never manage to do that again. {an anonymous benefactor} is the only person I have hit with this move since the release of SCIV. If you find some magical use for it, I am all ears.
So yeah, those are great. One quick note: the 22K versions are vastly inferior, and will probably get you stabbed really quickly. So don't fuck up your inputs. These are really easy on Hitbox, and I have no idea how hard they are for other people, but it shouldn't be too difficult on arcade stick, and pad can make use any shoulder button that has "A" in it - "A+B", "A+G", "A+B+K", and "A+K" should all work fine.
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In other news, I'd like all of you to say a prayer for ShenYuan, who has left Siegfried for Leixia.
ChaosK
[13] Hero
All true but his question was, will it blend is it a good whiffpunisher? 22k(A)'s range is not bad i agree but in order to combo into SCH K BE you have to be very close.
I love when people start ducking after 22k(A) and get hit by SCH B lol
I love when people start ducking after 22k(A) and get hit by SCH B lol
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Heaton
A Soul in the Purgatory
The thing about Siegfried is that he's a great side step whiff punisher on paper, and a tragically poor one in practice. 22A whiffs every now and again depending on if the move you're punishing recovers with TC. 22BB whiffs often after you've sidestepped someone with a lot of forward momentum. 22k(A) is high and suffers same problems 22A does but worse, and if they're moving forward after you've stepped you may end up out of range for the SCH k(BE) follow-up. Essentially it has the problems of both 22A and 22BB when used for whiff punishing. Personally, I just go for side throws, or if I know they'll recover in time to duck, 33*99(B).
No it will not blend what are you crazy the only one that can blend in this game is Yoshimitsu and he blends you for half life
ChaosK
[13] Hero
I like using throws as well. Theoretically 33_99 K BE could work?
Btw has any player learned how to get consistent with the 66K BE~2_8~SCH B~1K timing?
Btw has any player learned how to get consistent with the 66K BE~2_8~SCH B~1K timing?
Bastet
[12] Conqueror
That is a tech trap and I get it all the time, I never had any problem with the timing. The 1K can be blocked, but if the opponent teches back he can make you whiff. Perhaps that's what happens to you Chaos?
ChaosK
[13] Hero
There's a specific timing, that when you hit it, the following 1K is guaranteed for 70ish dmg (not that hard) and also catches all techs including back tech for 80ish dmg (very hard).
Bastet
[12] Conqueror
Oh I didnt know it could be a combo.
I did it like 5 times now... It seems the SCH B must hit the opponent once he knees and is about to fall.
Also I can get it more times when I do a good step... Perhaps it's the step
Edit: I used 66K BE ~ 2 ~ SCH B ~ 1K
Edit: The step must not be that big, but not that small as well
I did it like 5 times now... It seems the SCH B must hit the opponent once he knees and is about to fall.
Also I can get it more times when I do a good step... Perhaps it's the step
Edit: I used 66K BE ~ 2 ~ SCH B ~ 1K
Edit: The step must not be that big, but not that small as well
ChaosK
[13] Hero
Yes sry i forgot to mention, you have to use 2 on 1P side and 8 on 2P.
Slade
[14] Master
Voldo A+G and BS 66A+G against females. Also BS 6B6B.
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