Soul Calibur VI: General discussion

Well, the only ones of the new characters that would even really have real story bits between 1591 and 1607 would be Z.W.E.I. and Viola, simply because the rest of them would be small children who wouldn't be fighting for most of the time. We know next to nothing about Z.W.E.I., but learning his history would be a great opportunity taken to fill the gap between the two games. Same for seeing Amy's turn to Viola, and seeing Viola before she met Z.W.E.I., and just what it is she's doing with her life until she joins Schwarzwind with Z.W.E.I. later. But that's also just new folks, there's room for main character stories too, like Siegfried, Hilde, Raphael, and Kilik, just for starters. SoulCalibur VIII could be the time before and including SoulCalibur V as its own game.

I'm not against giving the second generation characters new styles, by the way, but as has been mentioned, it mostly makes sense for the successors to take on the styles of their predecessors from a narrative point of view, though with their own flavor on the styles to set them apart.
 
DanteSC3 said:
I'm not against giving the second generation characters new styles, by the way, but as has been mentioned, it mostly makes sense for the successors to take on the styles of their predecessors from a narrative point of view, though with their own flavor on the styles to set them apart.
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I feel like this only really applies to Natsu and Pyrrha to be honest.
I don't believe or remember the rest being a "successor" in any literal way?
 
Starringrole said:
I feel like this only really applies to Natsu and Pyrrha to be honest.
I don't believe or remember the rest being a "successor" in any literal way?
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Xiba is literally to be the successor to Kali-Yuga, so it makes sense that he would fight with the staff, in order to be able to use it properly. Leixia is admittedly just filling her mother's role at Xiba's side, so she just fell into the role, more than anything, but it would still make sense that Xianghua teaches her daughter the sword style of the Ling-Sheng Su, to keep the legacy alive. And her Critical Edge opener is "as my mother fought..." alluding to this. Patroklos (Alpha) was trained by Setsuka, so his iaijutsu style is coming from her, meanwhile his sword and shield style was paying tributes to Sophitia, though he cast that aside pretty easily to fall back on Setsuka's teachings during his quest.
 
DanteSC3 said:
Xiba is literally to be the successor to Kali-Yuga, so it makes sense that he would fight with the staff, in order to be able to use it properly. Leixia is admittedly just filling her mother's role at Xiba's side, so she just fell into the role, more than anything, but it would still make sense that Xianghua teaches her daughter the sword style of the Ling-Sheng Su, to keep the legacy alive. And her Critical Edge opener is "as my mother fought..." alluding to this. Patroklos (Alpha) was trained by Setsuka, so his iaijutsu style is coming from her, meanwhile his sword and shield style was paying tributes to Sophitia, though he cast that aside pretty easily to fall back on Setsuka's teachings during his quest.
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Leixa doesn't really have much to stay around style wise, so may as well change her in my eyes, not necessarily weapon entirely but yes something along the lines of Yun Seong/Hwang? That would solve "as my mother fought" since in that nature its similar to Yun Seong.

Xiba the same really goes, its kind of abstract with the usage of a pole thus why Kilik and Mina shared many moves, you could even do the same to Hilde to some degree. I honestly think Xiba could easily fall into the category of using something similar like as previously mentioned but still a different weapon, I doubt he will literally be wielding Kali Yuga any time soon either (going by what the releases of the games may be like narrative speaking in this judging from now.)

I don't really feel like many of the SC5 characters (successors only) have a reason to keep their weapon literally when something slightly alternative yet similar would give them more freedom to branch out into something new whilst still keeping their old/original nature and avoid many of the complaints of "clones".
Leixa/Xiba in particular I'd like to see using something slightly alternative whilst being similar. I really feel the SC5 cast for the most part deserve that much.

Just how I see it it though. No comment on Pat though... I'm just leaving it to Setsuka.
 
Well this falls back on the "we didn't even get more than 1/4 of SoulCalibur V's story to begin with" problem, but there would have been a quest with Maxi, Xiba, Leixia, and Natsu where they journeyed to find Kilik and obtain the Kali-Yuga, so with that party balance in mind, the styles really should cover the bases, much like Kilik, Xianghua, and Maxi were, back in the day. Plus Taki I suppose, though directly helping instead of acting in the shadows.

As much as I don't like Xiba, though, he definitely fights quite a bit differently than both Kilik and Mi-na, as-is, with no changes made to his moveset. His quirky mannerisms and Monkey King ripped moves are unique in their own right, so he's suitable to fight with the staff as he is. Leixia... not so much. Less fanciful Xianghua with Hwang's kicks... is just not very good, she really does need a bit more of things to call her own.
 
DanteSC3 said:
Well this falls back on the "we didn't even get more than 1/4 of SoulCalibur V's story to begin with" problem, but there would have been a quest with Maxi, Xiba, Leixia, and Natsu where they journeyed to find Kilik and obtain the Kali-Yuga, so with that party balance in mind, the styles really should cover the bases, much like Kilik, Xianghua, and Maxi were, back in the day. Plus Taki I suppose, though directly helping instead of acting in the shadows.
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I believe you forgot a "I think" before that "there would have been..." I really don't think there was as little content for the story mode as you suggest here--although I'll grant you, this is a common assertion; I just happen to think it is highly exagerrated regardless. For a certainty, four times as much is expected a bit much of a Soulcalibur fighter of that time. The story mode contains twenty-something chapters, each with at least one battle and one staged in-game-engine scene, as well as interstitial story elements. That's actually quite a lot of content relative to most previous titles, each of which had a few tiny little generic exchanges of dialogue in-engine and an amount of text dialogue that varied from "blink and you'll miss it" to "oh jesus make the (so over the top, but embarrassingly earnest) lore stop".

At a minimum, the amount of time invested in production value for SCV was a huge leap up over anything up until the present game. And even then, I'd take the quality of SCV's presentation (which should not be taken for a general endorsement of the plot itself) over the quantity of SCVI any day. So I don't think there was four times as much planned had the game not been so under budget: I'd like to think that resources would have been spent on filling out areas that were truly lackluster: the roster and extra balancing, to begin with. This is back before the current (and to my mind, very counter-intuitive and kind of even entitled) presumption that all games should have to cater equally to a hardcore crowd, even in genres and franchises traditional defined by multiplayer features and a focus on fundamental mechanics: as such, they had their priorities a little more straight back then and I'd hope no group of senior developers would have been dimwitted enough to greenlight sixty more chapters, when that kind of money (had the budget been bigger) could have gone to so many more important areas.

Today, of course, there is a different balance. The hardcore priorities somewhat lost the battle for popular support, at least at the level they used to have. So 80 story missions and a very long map-crawl mode don't seem too excessive these days. But even then, I'd argue that unending hours of visual novel talking heads spouting weaksauce dialogue delivered through voice acting that runs the gambit from pretty hammy to super-camp is not exactly a step in the right direction for story presentation. SCV wasn't exactly a radical departure, but I'd argue its closing chapters present the closest the series has ever gotten to genuine pathos, rather than projecting the most wild-ass, convoluted story possible, with pretty liberal applications of express silliness.
 
Nah, the 1/4 of story was in one of the interviews, so there's fact in the assertion. And "I think" was practically confirmed by New Legends of Project Soul giving the characters biographical information and introductory backstory, taken alongside the cues from within the game itself, considering that when you encounter Xiba, Leixia, and Natsu, they're all using their upgraded weapons, the implication is clear that they're well into their journey, with Xiba already having claimed Kali-Yuga. What they were going to do with it is anyone's guess, but it didn't seem like the plan was to give it to Patroklos at all. Context would have been nice, but we didn't get it at all if it didn't directly correlate to Patroklos or Pyrrha. To hell with everyone else.

The biggest problem with SoulCalibur V's story was a lack of cohesion and context, as well as the production values being very... bad, outside of the few actually fully-rendered cutscenes. The visual-novel style is a lot better than those god-awful sepia stills. So I don't agree with you at all that SoulCalibur V had the better production values over SoulCalibur VI. SoulCalibur VI had a lot better quality and quantity both. If they had delivered the full story and there were far more animated scenes, they would have likely set a new standard that would have been hard to follow up on for story modes, more on the level of what Netherrealm Studios brings to Mortal Kombat, but for a Japanese fighter instead. I thought, aside from Guard Impact costing meter, the mechanics of SoulCalibur V were relatively solid, and I still hold that it was better than SoulCalibur VI overall, purely from a gameplay standpoint. But I don't want another twenty-page argument about it, so I'll get back to the main point.

I feel like the balance to keep everyone happy is practically impossible, and they've done a really good job with SoulCalibur VI, for the most part. They've set up a stage that can potentially bring us back to the glory days of SoulCalibur III and before, and I'm really hoping that they use it. The current model can more than bring us all the relevant story bits to contextualize every character in a cohesive narrative that keeps the lorehounds happy as well as giving the ones who only care about the gameplay a fun and engaging experience, all the while being a pretty fun game to watch play, which helps the tournament scene gather an audience, which in turn allows popularity to soar, which, all things considered, is what we need the most, to keep getting bigger and better.
 
As someone who played the ever loving fuck out of SCV, I would really appreciate seeing Natsu reappear.

Sure, Taki is still fun and I realky enjoy playibg her, but it doesnt quite feel the same. I didnt really play SCIV enough to get attacged to the characters in it as much as other fans, so the change didnt really hit me that badly. I'll say it really hurts to lose a character you've been playing for a long time, I do know the feeling, from when I played tekken. That and SF has a habit of removing my mains.

I'd be over tge moon if Natsu was reintroduced later, like talim, as Taki's apprentice or partner. If they wanted to diversify Natsu you could shift her into a slightly slower but harder hitting version of herself, with more arahabaki moves. You could also make her SC a transformation. As a gimmick you could also have ger start off with fairly average damage, that increases in yellow health to slightly above average damage.

I think other people should get their mains back first, Like Hwang, Setsuka and Lizzy fans. Even rock fans. I'd feel like scum if we got natsu but lizzy got shafted.

Maybe if a season four is a thing, we might be able to get her, since okubo said he wanted the game to last long. But other people should get their mains back first.
 
SSfox said:
We should do a poll as who was the best newcomer in SCV, my vote would go to Z.W.E.I.
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Yoshimitsu the 2nd. XD

I jest but when you really think about it the only true new characters when it comes to both their design and moveset are Z.W.E.I. and Patroklos. All the new faces are Frankensteined from past characters and some of the golden era characters have new movesets like Viola and Aeon. In the end Z.W.E.I. only wins because of a technicality.
 
Silver-wind said:
I think some SCV characters may be given completely new move-sets. Project Soul has done a great job (my opinion) making each character (including those who share a weapon) different. But, I have to admit, it would be slightly odd having four shield and sword users on the roster. There has to be a limit, right?

Also, I think what sparked my original question was the big time period between SCIV and SCV. I’m not sure how Project Soul will handle that period. I assume they won’t rush towards it. But, then, this means we really won’t see SCV characters for a long time.

Edit: Unless there is a rewrite/ move set transfer
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Tbh i think that reintroducing Pat's move is not a bad idea, he felt really different compared to Sophi and Cas, all tho they definitely wont introduce Pat back bcus of lore/time issues and most of the community hated the character (not the move set that he provided) it would be a waste if they erased his move set.

I dont know how Tekken manages time passing in their world, but i think SC shouod apply the same concept in order to not erase/kill characters we dont want SC5 happening all over again.
 
genghis_chan said:
Tbh i think that reintroducing Pat's move is not a bad idea, he felt really different compared to Sophi and Cas, all tho they definitely wont introduce Pat back bcus of lore/time issues and most of the community hated the character (not the move set that he provided) it would be a waste if they erased his move set.

I dont know how Tekken manages time passing in their world, but i think SC shouod apply the same concept in order to not erase/kill characters we dont want SC5 happening all over again.
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They could always take Pat’s character and rewrite him for one of the future games. Perhaps a fresh take on him with a revamped personality.
 
DanteSC3 said:
Nah, the 1/4 of story was in one of the interviews, so there's fact in the assertion.
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Ah, ok, fair enough. Though I do think, particularly with the fandom of this series, innucous little comments by this or that developer often get exaggerated, mistranslated, taken out of context and just generally distorted by the game of telephone-repeat as this information gets passed through the community. So I take all of that with a grain of salt, until I read the interview myself in the original language.
DanteSC3 said:
And "I think" was practically confirmed by New Legends of Project Soul giving the characters biographical information and introductory backstory, taken alongside the cues from within the game itself, considering that when you encounter Xiba, Leixia, and Natsu, they're all using their upgraded weapons, the implication is clear that they're well into their journey, with Xiba already having claimed Kali-Yuga.
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Sure, but that doesn't mean claiming those weapons is necessarily critical to the plot for this new generation: if anything, a smart writer would realize such narratives would be repetitive and uninspired and would thus arguably choose to have the plot pick up after the point where these characters are tested fighters, regardless. I'm just not convinced all of the newbies were meant to have significant arcs, but for the low budget/short production time.
DanteSC3 said:
What they were going to do with it is anyone's guess, but it didn't seem like the plan was to give it to Patroklos at all. Context would have been nice, but we didn't get it at all if it didn't directly correlate to Patroklos or Pyrrha. To hell with everyone else.
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Well, but maybe that's a smarter way of telling a story. I mean, I agree that Alexandria brats are not the most compelling protagonists in gaming history, but in principle, if you want to up your game on the story telling in a fighter, trying to give equal screen time to every character is probably not the way to go: it might make sense in terms of paying lipservice to every fan's favourite (which is why most games in this genre do exactly that), but it won't give you much in terms of an elevated story if you are approaching things through that kind of cookie-cutter dynamic.
DanteSC3 said:
The biggest problem with SoulCalibur V's story was a lack of cohesion and context, as well as the production values being very... bad, outside of the few actually fully-rendered cutscenes. The visual-novel style is a lot better than those god-awful sepia stills. So I don't agree with you at all that SoulCalibur V had the better production values over SoulCalibur VI. SoulCalibur VI had a lot better quality and quantity both. If they had delivered the full story and there were far more animated scenes, they would have likely set a new standard that would have been hard to follow up on for story modes, more on the level of what Netherrealm Studios brings to Mortal Kombat, but for a Japanese fighter instead.
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Well, mind you, it's been seven or eight years since I last played through the story mode (though i did recently replay the last few chapters), but my memory was that the game actually did have significantly more animated and in-engine/mechanima scenes, which is what I was referencing in terms of raised production value.

For a certainty, those segments which were there were actual scenes, as opposed to the previous standard of "[Cervantes, turning around]: 'I shall feat upon your soul!!!' [Sophitia, raises her shield]: Are...you some kind of Monster!?!'"

Indeed, the last few chapters verge on the cinematic, and do something no previous Soulcalibur really ever managed: they give a sense that something fundamental has changed in the fictional world, rather than just setting up a revert to the status quo ante for another retread of basically the exact same plot. and that resolution makes the actual suffering of the principle characters seem more real, earned, and significant. I mean, its not King Lear by any means, but it was something more than I was used to seeing from this franchise.
DanteSC3 said:
I thought, aside from Guard Impact costing meter, the mechanics of SoulCalibur V were relatively solid, and I still hold that it was better than SoulCalibur VI overall, purely from a gameplay standpoint. But I don't want another twenty-page argument about it, so I'll get back to the main point.
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I can't help but agree with all of that. I think SCVI may end up being the better game on a mechanical level once they are finished with it and have drawn back a bit on the things they initially went overboard on (mehciancs added forplayfield leveling/newbie accessibility in particular), but at present, I think, other than how meter was handled and a few other nitpicks, SCV is actually the tighter fighter, albeit one with far less variety.
DanteSC3 said:
I feel like the balance to keep everyone happy is practically impossible, and they've done a really good job with SoulCalibur VI, for the most part. They've set up a stage that can potentially bring us back to the glory days of SoulCalibur III and before, and I'm really hoping that they use it. The current model can more than bring us all the relevant story bits to contextualize every character in a cohesive narrative that keeps the lorehounds happy as well as giving the ones who only care about the gameplay a fun and engaging experience, all the while being a pretty fun game to watch play, which helps the tournament scene gather an audience, which in turn allows popularity to soar, which, all things considered, is what we need the most, to keep getting bigger and better.
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My own hope is that the revival of the tournament scene will push the design of the next game a little bit more back towards the hardcore. I recognize that the devs/publisher are subject to the whims of the consumer base, and that story is unlikely to be paired back to where it was in the classic era, but for me the balance is a little off in this game. Of course, with the continuing support / multiple season pass sales model, they don't have to choose between the two as much anymore: they can simply sell (over multiple installments) a more expensive product that caters more completely to everyone.

And while I would be happier with a cheaper product that emphasizes core content assets and de-emphasizes lore and long, drawn out story modes, I recognize we are all in this together as fans and I'm happy to pay $100-$120 per platform for the complete game, provided the roster returns to being consistently large and composed of well-balanced characters, and other core assets (stages, hardcore modes, matchmaking/netcode, CaS, ect.) are all done right. That said, I do wonder how many fans are as eagerly along for that price tag as I am. But we shall see: clearly Namco (like its genre competitors) is trying to finally break open that game consumer reticence to pay more than $60 for a fighter, and I do think the time has come, and support their moving in that direction. But I still hear a lot of bitchy, whiny, entitled moaning from a lot of players.
Ukkesh said:
As someone who played the ever loving fuck out of SCV, I would really appreciate seeing Natsu reappear.

Sure, Taki is still fun and I realky enjoy playibg her, but it doesnt quite feel the same. I didnt really play SCIV enough to get attacged to the characters in it as much as other fans, so the change didnt really hit me that badly. I'll say it really hurts to lose a character you've been playing for a long time, I do know the feeling, from when I played tekken. That and SF has a habit of removing my mains.

I'd be over tge moon if Natsu was reintroduced later, like talim, as Taki's apprentice or partner. If they wanted to diversify Natsu you could shift her into a slightly slower but harder hitting version of herself, with more arahabaki moves. You could also make her SC a transformation. As a gimmick you could also have ger start off with fairly average damage, that increases in yellow health to slightly above average damage.
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I couldn't agree more as to Natsu's value. Of all the 'near-beer' styles (as I call the SCV semi-clones), Natsu was undoubtedly the biggest success in translating the basic core of the original character's style while also allowing for variance that makes the general style feel refreshing, rather than a disappointing knock-off. There is just something so rewarding about her ability to lure out and manipulate the opponent if you play cannily with her: I really hope she makes a return at some point, hopefully just a tad bit more differentiated from Taki so they can co-exist without issue.
Ukkesh said:
I think other people should get their mains back first, Like Hwang, Setsuka and Lizzy fans. Even rock fans. I'd feel like scum if we got natsu but lizzy got shafted.

Maybe if a season four is a thing, we might be able to get her, since okubo said he wanted the game to last long. But other people should get their mains back first.
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Yeah, much as it pains me to say it, i think a fourth season is a bridge too far: I just don't think they will push this multiple season pass experiment that far this generation, more's the pity. I think its highly likely we will get a third season, but only a third season. And yeah, there's just too many remaining classic characters to allow for her in Season Three. If any Soulcalibur V character gets in, it would likely be Viola, and even that is unlikely in my estimation--again, unfortunately, as Viola is a great style: one of the few hocus-pocus characters I can really get behind.
 
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sytus said:
Yoshimitsu the 2nd. XD

I jest but when you really think about it the only true new characters when it comes to both their design and moveset are Z.W.E.I. and Patroklos. All the new faces are Frankensteined from past characters and some of the golden era characters have new movesets like Viola and Aeon. In the end Z.W.E.I. only wins because of a technicality.
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You mean you don't consider Viola as brand new in SCV? I mean i'm not super fan of the character but she felt super new to me in everyway.
 
SSfox said:
You mean you don't consider Viola as brand new in SCV? I mean i'm not super fan of the character but she felt super new to me in everyway.
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I think he's defining "new" as being someone who never before featured in the plot and someone whose style was completely novel. I tend to agree though that this is a somewhat convoluted way to judge newness, as it entangles two different standards. For that matter, its only relatively recently that we got confirmation that Viola is Amy: for all intents and purposes in that game, she is a new character. Certainly she absolutely is as a gameplay matter--which, for my money, is really the only (or at the least the overwhelmingly most important) way we should be concerned with judging such things when we consider the variety of a roster.

Edit: Nevermind, I re-read sytus' original comment. He says "design and moveset" not "story and moveset". In that respect, I'd say Viola is a new design, although the allusions to Amy in the smaller details are pretty obvious.
 
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SSfox said:
You mean you don't consider Viola as brand new in SCV? I mean i'm not super fan of the character but she felt super new to me in everyway.
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Not anymore because we now know she's adult Amy. This is why I say Z.W.E.I. wins the best new character position as a technicality because him and Patroklos are the only true brand new characters.
 
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