Alpha Patroklos matchups discussion

Personally, I think it's really nice to use as an alternative to JFO - easier on the fingers. Then again, I'm really, really bad.

Also, is 2364B a viable mixup with 2364B+K if they start crouching?
 
Reidrum said:
Personally, I think it's really nice to use as an alternative to JFO - easier on the fingers. Then again, I'm really, really bad.

Also, is 2364B a viable mixup with 2364B+K if they start crouching?
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2363B would be better than 2364B, though I don't consider a high and a mid a "mixup", as in this case both can be blocked standing, or stepped.
 
b4k4 said:
2363B would be better than 2364B, though I don't consider a high and a mid a "mixup", as in this case both can be blocked standing, or stepped.
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True enough. I just use it occasionally for style if I'm expecting them to duck. Thinking on it though, 236B gives the exact same result for far less effort.
 
Reserving this post to give my own opinions on matchup numbers (no 0.5's. Open to questions, criticism and new tech/experience in matchups:

Aeon -
Algol -
Astaroth -
Cervantes -
Dampierre - 7 - 3
Ezio -
Hilde -
Ivy - 6 - 4
Leixia - 7 - 3
Maxi -
Mitsurugi - 5 - 5
Natsu -
Nightmare - 6 - 4
Patroklos -
Pyrrha - 7 - 3
Pyrrha Omega - 6 - 4
Raphael -
Siegfried -
Tira -
Viola - 4 - 6
Voldo -
Xiba - 6 - 4
Yoshimitsu -
Z.W.E.I -

(Alpha on the left, opposing character on the right)

Based on practical experience and consideration of the following:
Throws
Guard Crush
Damage
RO potential
Punishment
Pressure
Okizeme
Close Range
Mid Range
Long Range
 
Viola 4-6? I think she can make less of her stuff to alpha then on most of characters

Damp 7-3? (know nothing about him but everybody says he is bottom, and alpha is S, so 7-3 looks "good" for Damp xD)

Pyrra looks little to much, but there was already the discussion, no point for doing it again.
 
My opinion :
Aeon - 6-4
Algol - 5-5*
Astaroth - 6-4
Cervantes - 5-5
Dampierre - ?
Ezio - 6-4
Hilde - 6-4
Ivy - 6 - 4
Leixia - 7 - 3
Maxi - 6 - 4
Mitsurugi - 5 - 5
Natsu - 6-4
Nightmare - 6 - 4
Patroklos - 6-4
Pyrrha - 6-4
Pyrrha Omega - 6 - 4
Raphael - 7-3
Siegfried - 7-3
Tira - 6-4
Viola - 5-5*
Voldo - 6-4
Xiba - 6 - 4
Yoshimitsu - 6-4
Z.W.E.I - ?

* = can change IMO. Perhaps 4-6.

I can explain if I need to.
 
Can I get your specific thoughts on the Yoshi matchup Maxou? I probably agree with 6-4 Alpha, but I think he's a really overlooked character and wanted your thoughts?
 
About Yoshi :

Yoshi is a very good character.
What will pose you problems in this MU :
FC 3K + wake up (one of the best low in the game)
Throws (very good throw and good throw range)
CH game and UB traps.
CE, suicide and RO (he can end rounds FAST or make some rounds closer than they should be because of RO pressure or CE).
Zoning and guard break pressure.

This allow Yoshi to deal with most character because he is a very solid character.

Alpha has stuff in this MU that Yoshi doesn't have though :
- He can punish heavily some stuff (FC 3K, 3B, 3AB, etc...)
- throw punishing game (Alpha will punish throws with FC 3A+B, Yoshi will punish throws with 6K... or CE when he can)
- damage output is in Alpha's favor.

You still need to be carefull but I feel like this is a 6-4.
Yoshi can win, with good mind game guesses but a carefull Alpha player will be able to cause problems to most Yoshimitsu.
 
can some explain about leixia? ... I have a lot of difficulty with this matchup... mainly because of alpha's [lack] of tracking ... leixia has a lot of stepping tools ... 22b[?] the step launcher and wr b [also be version]. I find it difficult to step wr b, even on anticipation ... perhaps I'm not timing it correctly -__-; ... I find that those moves often beat my 33b, 66b, bb, and her wr b options just beat nearly all the mids and all the high tracking moves for alpha and even 4k's.

speed, safety, guard crushing, stepping ... -___-
 
Alpha rapes Leixia.

In this match, Alpha is stronger at all ranges, but paticularly at mid and long range. For the threat of bA and 33B whiff punishment, Leixia is basically limited to 66A and 66B to move in, both of which are risky as hell against Alpha: vs 66AA jg the second hit and launch her, 66BB step right in between hits and launch her, if she tries to get tricky and do 66B on block into anything, bA will kill her for pushing buttons (excluding G).

Notable block punishment:
3B is launch punishable
33B is launch punishable
33BB is launch punishable
6KK is launch punishable
44B and 44B4 are launch punishable
WS B is launch punishable
Quake stun is launch punishable

Leixia has evades at close range, but the risk/reward is horrible for her on anything that isn't WS B BE and even with her meter build she doesn't have an endless supply.
Since her bullshit CE glitch got removed she has lost most of her comeback potential.
When you have CE, your 2A is a serious problem for this character, she has no offence whatsoever which is already coupled with no damage.
The main issue here is GC - she WILL GC you, but because she lost her Algol combo, it really doesn't matter, just side tech if you see WS B BE after BT B+K in the GC combo, stay down otherwise.
8A+BB picks up crybaby, JF twister punishes it on hit.

Long story short: Leixia has to take much more serious risks than you to compete and in greater numbers. She can GC turtles, but this won't give her 3 rounds and it really makes her struggle. Assuming the Alpha player is content to not rush her down, Lexia gets nothing but problems in this matchup - winnable, but bloody difficult.
3 - 7 Alpha
 
hm what do you mean by launch punishable? haha ... 3b is i19, 66b is i19 ... I'm assuming you mean jf t, jf t?

I know her 3b frames got worse on block, but I'm not sure how bad it is now? ... iirc, it was -12 prepatch ?
 
ive got to say i had to laugh when i saw alpha rapes leixia no way lol that is not a 7 3 match up at all theres a reason many alpha pat players are having problems with her all i have to say i that instant wr b be kills most of alphas options i second alpha and that is one of his hardest match ups shes faster than except for twister but try twister randomly and you eat a free launcher alpha synrai im believing to think your clueless lol 33bb launch punishable ok i ve heard it all there is no way your punishing a -13 move with twister its not happening the best you can hope for is punish on a -15 even - 14 is pretty difficult to punish with twister alpha pat is very linear and has limited step killers there is no way he is better than leixia in close he has to play a zoning game and whiff punish game to win this match up. she has much better movement than alpha has better frames he isnt frame traping her at all i know leixia is quite bad now but not much has changed in this match up. the vid below is proof that this match up is not in alphas favour
 
Lol, yeah but I disagree to an extent: Leixia I feel suffers more as she will spend a lot more time in 2A range than a lot of characters in this matchup. =/
 
Therenovator said:
synrai im believing to think your clueless lol
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This is like talking to new generation SRK posters, lol.
I wonder if you think the same about the best Alpha player in the world who incidentally also believes its a 7 - 3 sugar? =)

I'm wondering why I should even listen to you at all? Be a dear and run off your tournament/high level experience for me, as what you posted makes you sound like a newbie who thinks he knows what he's talking about. You haven't considered risk/reward and SERIOUSLY underestimate this character if you think he's only got JF Twister, tip of the iceberg, pal. I don't want to think you're a scrub, so please help me out.

Here's the experience I have offline vs. Leixia so far in SCV:
FT3 at impact and casuals at WGCCannes with Kayane and a discussion on the matchup.
Casuals at WGCCannes with a couple of European Leixia's and a discussion of the matchup.
About 50 games at WGCCannes with my hotel roommate, Hyrul and a discussion of the matchup.
Over 600 casual games with my partner (Kalas) and a LOT of discussions over the matchup.
Every tournament Leixia player I have ever talked to considers it a 4-6 or 3-7 to Alpha and that was BEFORE she lost her double CE.

But hey, I'm just a scrub who evidently doesn't know a thing about Leixia so maybe you're right. =)
 
Why bother with 2A against Leixa? CE punish nearly all her move for 55 free damage.
66K, 66AA, 33BB, 22B, 3B+K, 44B, etc...
 
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