Alpha Patroklos matchups discussion

Maxou

[11] Champion
pyrah 22k > aPat
*cries*
havent touched this game for awhile ._.

Actually, Pyrrha 22K has various weaknesses you can use against it.
I used to whine against this move until I got to training mode (since my pyrrha sparring spartners spammed this move a lot) :
- 4K works against it (can be stepped sometimes, but it's consistent enough). 3A works too.
- backdash works against it (really good).
- Delays works against it.
- It's a high so if you guess it's coming, you know what to do.

Then it's all about conditionning and mind games. Generally speaking, you can put Pyrrha in a guessing game and she will have a negative risk/reward about using 22K.
 

Maxou

[11] Champion
Oh addendum about Ivy :
- 3B, 2A+B, FC 1B can be CE punished. And this is awesome.

CE is a monster in this match up (where isn't it a mosnter?).


Pressure and punish is the key with her. JGing or aGIing her BE is essential. Don't let her push you out. Sidestep at a distance and approach with your 33B ( Whore it out actually) 4K or the 6A_ mind game to cover space (6A, Throw _6A, 1AAA finally 6AA CH combo).

I disagree.
General advices in the Ivy MU :
- Let her push you out (a little). Mid range is where you want to be (you want to be able to make her whiff, and to be able to close in as fast as possible).
- Let her whiff and don't spam 33B (since she can step it, and her 3B is kinda awesome in this MU and will win a lot of rounds for her), but punish and whiff punish her as much as you can.
- Go in when you need damage (throws, 1AAA, 33B/66B) and try to avoid as much as possible 3B situations. Or anticipate her 3B game, step and get your free whiff punish.
- Don't hesitate to step at midrange, her antistep game is kinda bad there (66A = high, 66[A] = very dangerous for her, 3[A] = can be 236~3B punished).
- Close range, she is kinda hard to step, and most of her tools will track a lot. Be carefull
- Try to avoid as much as possible to set up CH situations for her since her CH game is really dangerous (CH 3B, CH 2A+B !!).
- Her CE is awesome but so does ours. Alpha CE deals with her 3B, 2A+B and FC 1B.
- 22A (hitconfirm) A is awesome to prevent her from stepping as much as you can.
 

Woahhzz

[09] Warrior
Actually, Pyrrha 22K has various weaknesses you can use against it.
I used to whine against this move until I got to training mode (since my pyrrha sparring spartners spammed this move a lot) :
- 4K works against it (can be stepped sometimes, but it's consistent enough). 3A works too.
- backdash works against it (really good).
- Delays works against it.
- It's a high so if you guess it's coming, you know what to do.

Then it's all about conditionning and mind games. Generally speaking, you can put Pyrrha in a guessing game and she will have a negative risk/reward about using 22K.

yes i know the above, but even so its a free throw out move that covers many options.

and ive been addicted to rage of bahamut, an iphone app lol
 

GreatOne1939

I Knew It!!!
and ive been addicted to rage of bahamut, an iphone app lol
uploadfromtaptalk1343614965774.jpg
 

Paragon049

[10] Knight
Does anybody have any advice versus Maxi? I used to use Maxi, and I still have a lot of trouble vs him. Also, has anyone noticed that Maxi has a messed up hitbox, and it's really hard to land 2x JFT against him if he left rolls?
 

Dragonfall

[10] Knight
Also, has anyone noticed that Maxi has a messed up hitbox, and it's really hard to land 2x JFT against him if he left rolls?

That's true of everybody, no?

I noticed Maxi has a weird hitbox because sometimes my 66B whiffs even though I'm not out of alignment.
 

Soarel

[08] Mercenary
I absolutely suck with alpha:sc5pat1:.

He's confused the hell out of me since day 1. I was pretty good with :sc4set2: back in SCIV so I don't get this. For some reason, I keep hitting the opponent with the hilt, which is the weakest move ever.

He's epic in looks, and seems promising, but in the name of :sc5nm1:, how do I play him?
 

Steven_a

The Alpha
1. Learn the basics of the game. Punishment, spacing etc.
2. Pick a beginner character and work on those basics
3. When you have basics down, check out the aPat threads such as top 10 moves thread
4. Hit training mode and learn his just frames and twister movement.
5. Watch video of high play of aPat (Woahhzz) and incorporate that in your play style.
6. Punish everything with JFT

I simplify everything but I am a scrub who's ideas seems terrible. aPat is a character that needs constant training especially with his just frames. He is one of the best characters in the game when mastered.
 

dysomnium

[08] Mercenary
I'm a self-taught aPat player, though I've picked up a few tips and tricks from these forums (I'm not stellar, but a lot of online players compliment me, so I'll take that as a reason to be confident). The most important thing to learn with aPat is the two stances and how to apply them: Dawn Haze (214) and Twilight Haze (236). If you remember Setsuka's 66B, that move's input is now either 2G 3aB or 214 3aB. I made the mistake of learning everything out of 2G which is very difficult to combo, not to mention limited, but can't be buffered, either.

By inputting any of your moves with 214 or 236, blocked attacks are much easier to punish, attacks come out faster and you can take advantage of more tech-crouch frames with the beautiful JFT (214 3a:B). I feel that JFT is aPat's backbone. However, first, try to get used to the Dawn Haze Twister input (214 3aB), and then start practicing inputting it in combos by buffering it. For example: (stun), 8A+B B, 214 3aB. This can combo without a Just Frame every time, if you time it correctly, so it's important to make this combo input feel natural. The next step is learning the JFT.

There's an entire thread dedicated to JFT (because it's that awesome) in the aPat arena, so make sure to take your time reading through that, but I would like to submit a couple tips that I've found to help me tremendously (assuming your thumb is used):
1. If you use your thumb, prepare for a mega-callous.
2. The directional input's speed doesn't matter... all that matters is how much time there is between pressing A and B.
3. Don't mash A and B as hard as you can. This greatly slows down your input. "Graze" the buttons just enough that they are definitely inputted, but your thumb keeps momentum.
4. Don't aim to stop your thumb at B. My thumb goes WAY past B - by aiming your thumb further, so to speak, you're going to move from A to B much more quickly. Just don't lose control of your controller or your ability to move your thumb quickly back to wherever it needs to move back to.
5. Try training your thumb to not make contact with A until you've reached the edge of the button closest to B. This actually causes A to input later, therefore closer time-wise to B's input. Most easily done by doing a 'swooping' motion with your thumb.
6. Don't give up after 10 minutes. aPat. Takes. Time. Oh, and patience. Don't forget that. I've heard it's important.

Other Just Frames are important: 1A is a solid low attack, especially when you're hiding behind Astaroth's giant flippin' hammer and telegraphing becomes void. So, learn 1A:A :A. If you don't see aPat's eye sparkle green or white or whatever everyone sees when the second attack starts, the third one won't come out no matter the timing. Also, the second attack must hit for the third one to come out.

Learn how to react to your counter-hits, typically with 6K or 8A+B B, while some even allow a window for 214 3B:B (another Just Frame you should learn!). aPat can dish out some srs damage so long as you react properly and time inputs correctly. 3B on Counter can be followed up with bA for 63 damage, while 3B off Counter can be followed up with JFT for 55 damage, or just Twister for 51.

Beyond this, learn which moves are dangerous and which are safe. I can't count how many times a match I'd get punished for using Twister when I first started playing this game. It was embarrassing. I'd like to post a lot more, but I'm far from being a top tier player, even with aPat as my main. I'm just at the tip of the proverbial iceberg.

Lemme know if any of this helps!

P.S. How do I post 1A:A:A without using :A: or spaces? :(
 

Dragonfall

[10] Knight
3A on Counter can be followed up with bA for 63 damage, while 3A off Counter can be followed up with JFT for 55 damage, or just Twister for 51

3A is +4 on hit and CH, so can't be followed up by anything.

2A on the other hand can be followed up by CE.
 

Dragonfall

[10] Knight
3B > bA is a combo without counter hit. If your opponent doesn't tech then it can be followed up by 2363B.

Sorry I was thinking 33B.
 

HandsomestMale

[08] Mercenary
This has helped me enormously, just picked up this guy for the hell of it (I like to be flashy and cocky), and the clarification on which parts of the JF count has improved my inputs. One piece of advice, if you want to get hang of the JF's, try Yoshimitsu. His iMCF has the same input and allows you get get the input down before you start including the directional buttons as well.

I'm unfortunately having problems with the 1A : A : A, since it's not as simple as rolling your thumb across the controller, any advice on the timing?
 

JDub

Mmm. Pie.
This has helped me enormously, just picked up this guy for the hell of it (I like to be flashy and cocky), and the clarification on which parts of the JF count has improved my inputs. One piece of advice, if you want to get hang of the JF's, try Yoshimitsu. His iMCF has the same input and allows you get get the input down before you start including the directional buttons as well.

I'm unfortunately having problems with the 1A : A : A, since it's not as simple as rolling your thumb across the controller, any advice on the timing?
I think Paragon gave me advice in another aPat thread and it helped. Instead of focusing on timing per-say, focus on the visual. Watch aPat and look for where he is in his attack for the JF to work.
 

HandsomestMale

[08] Mercenary
I think Paragon gave me advice in another aPat thread and it helped. Instead of focusing on timing per-say, focus on the visual. Watch aPat and look for where he is in his attack for the JF to work.
That was what I worked on to being with (and it did help), though during battles it's not been as easy to keep track of that. Will hit the training in a bit and roll with it. Thanks :)
 

Paragon049

[10] Knight
For 1A:A:A, you want to hit the second A right as aPat's sword connects with them, and then the third just as aPat's sword hits them again. 1A:A:A is mostly just muscle memory, though.
 

dysomnium

[08] Mercenary
:1::A:::A:::A: is indeed muscle memory. I've gotten pretty good at it, but I still have days I just can't hit it. First, if you don't see the green/white flash in aPat's eye when the first attack hits, the third attack won't come out. The timing on the second :A: is the most crucial because of this. The third :A: input also comes a little faster than the second, too.

I personally didn't learn this one with visual ques. I'm kinda blind, ya'know. I counted to three as I tapped :A:, and hearing the timing of my own voice lining up with successfully performing this move is how I learned it. I also learned :1::B:::B: with audio ques, sliding my thumb off of :B: rather than tapping it, creating a tempo of sorts.