Alpha Patroklos matchups discussion

b4k4

[10] Knight
3B on Counter can be followed up with bA for 63 damage, while 3B off Counter can be followed up with JFT for 55 damage, or just Twister for 51.
CH 3B, ag:B, 2A BE, JFT

CH 3B is secretly one of my favourite Alpha moves. Ok, I guess not so secret since I'm talking about it...
 

dysomnium

[08] Mercenary
CH 3B is secretly one of my favourite Alpha moves. Ok, I guess not so secret since I'm talking about it...

I'm falling in love with 3B, CH or not.

3B sans CH~2A BE~8A+B,B~JFT = 94 damage, no clean hits. I mean, seriously? Not even on counter.

Also whenever playing a male character I've fallen in love with his A grab.
A+G~8A+B,B~2A BE~JFT = 91 damage.

I'm also falling in love with agB because of the TC frames.
agB~2A BE~8A+B,B~JFT = 116 damage.
If I could get ag:B consistently, I'd love it even more. I believe ag:B~ag:B can be followed by 2A BE, but I'm too inconsistent to really practice it, let alone rely on it.

Apparently I love 2A BE, too. I'm starting to think it's one of the best Brave Edge attacks in the game. It allows so many follow ups and does significant damage itself.
 

b4k4

[10] Knight
3B sans CH~2A BE~8A+B,B~JFT = 94 damage, no clean hits. I mean, seriously? Not even on counter.

agB~2A BE~8A+B,B~JFT = 116 damage.
You should set your opponent to left ukemi off of the ground in training mode. I'm 100% sure 8A+BB can be teched to the left in the first combo you listed after the 2A BE, and 99% sure it can be teched in the second instance.

After 2A BE in those specfic knocdown situations (I'll talk about other situations in a second), your best options are JFT for damage, or 2362BA for wallsplats or ROs. 8A+BB is either wholly avoidable by a proper tech, or at the very least won't launch a rolling opponent, which will negate your relaunch to JFT option. Your optimal (guaranteed) combos off of those launchers are therefore:

3B, 2A BE:
-JFT
-2362BA -> RO/Wallsplat continuation
-8A+BB (will only relaunch if opponent does not ukemi. It can still hit an ukemi, but for sub-optimal damage, where JFT should be used instead)

These are your only options because, in this instance, the 2A BE is going to knock your opponent back and give you a feet toward knockdown. The distance between you and your opponent limits you to having only these as viable options. Think about it, if 8A+BB were always guaranteed, then this would have to be a combo...:

A+G, 8A+BB, 2A BE, 8A+BB, 2A BE, 8A+BB, 2A BE, 8A+BB, 2A BE, 8A+BB, JFT

You can certainly hit unaware opponents with strings like this, but ones in the know will roll out long before you get the chance.

(Note: A+G, 2362BA is possible vs. the entire cast for ringouts and wallsplats. Fun times)

agB or ag:B, ag:B, 2A BE:
-JFT (highest guaranteed damage)
-1B:B (tech trap all directions to full 1B:B combo)
-B+K series (catches left tech)
-2143A+B (catches right tech for a full FC 3A+B combo)
-8A+BB (relaunches if they stay grounded, but can be teched)

This situations gives you a bunch of different options. First, note that agB or ag:B should always be followed by another ag:B (the first one doesn't have to be a JF, but the second does). You should practice this until you're consistent at it, because the subsequent 2A BE in this scenario will give you a head toward knockdown (as opposed to the feet toward scenario above), and yields far more options for an Alpha player. 2A BE to head toward knockdowns are the scariest situation for Alpha's opponents to be in, and is his single best opportunity to force a safe mixup for huge damage. Another examples of a situation that creates a head toward knockdown state after 2A BE is:

66B, backstep, 8A+BB, 2A BE...
 

dysomnium

[08] Mercenary
"First, note that agB or ag:B should always be followed by another ag:B (the first one doesn't have to be a JF, but the second does). You should practice this until you're consistent at it..."

I play on 360 with a regular controller, default controls, and with ag:B, I press ag with my thumb (I roll it across X and Y instead of sliding it) and for B I press Right Trigger. I seem to have pretty consistent timing between g and b, but from my experience I know it doesn't just have to be inputted quickly, but smoothly, too, and I can't seem to get that part down. Any pointers?
 

b4k4

[10] Knight
I play on 360 with a regular controller, default controls, and with ag:B, I press ag with my thumb (I roll it across X and Y instead of sliding it) and for B I press Right Trigger. I seem to have pretty consistent timing between g and b, but from my experience I know it doesn't just have to be inputted quickly, but smoothly, too, and I can't seem to get that part down. Any pointers?
I wish I had a good tip for you, but I play stick and use a custom button config to help with ag:B inputs (I have A G and B all in a line on the bottom row where buttons are normally unassigned, and just slide across all 3). I'm going to take a quick look to see if I can find an old vid, I think it was from docvizzo, that showed him doing ag:Bs on a 360 controller.

Edit: Not the vid doc did, but look at 2:30 into this video:


Also, I need to make some quick corrections to the above post. I was working from memory and missed a few points, but not regarding 2x ag:B combos.

One other thing: try setting your opponent to right ukemi. Then try the 3B, 2A BE, 8A+BB string and you'll see why it doesn't work.
 

dom

[08] Mercenary
I DO NOT pretend to be the foremost authority on Alpha. I put this guide together to help the noobs and those who want to learn afew things they may not have known.

I want to give a shout out to the best Alpha in the World, Maxou and the French forum for his help and answers when I first started with Alpha. I also want to say thanks to Seyfer for all those long talks on the little areas of the game that now make sense. My Boy, Seditious explained the joys of frames to me in detail. Thanks Bro.
Finally, thanks Cheese of the day for putting up with my crazy PM rants and questions.

I hope these Documents help everyone.

If you find mistakes feel free to correct or disregard totally. lol!



I broke the guide down in simplistic ways to help all.

An exhaustive list of Frame and Tech traps as well as Combos for all to learn is at the End.

Have a great day.
 

Attachments

  • Alpha-Patroklos Wall Combo Sheet.pdf
    1.4 MB · Views: 364
  • The Alpha Patroklos Strategy Guide.pdf
    1.8 MB · Views: 3,441

JDub

Mmm. Pie.
Wow...comprehensive to say the least. Thx for the effort! It's going to be a while before I get all this contemplated.
 

dom

[08] Mercenary
For your further entertainment, here's an excel file with his combos and juggles simplified, courtesy of my boy Seyfer.

Have a great day.
 

Attachments

  • Alpha-Patroklos Combos.zip
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Foxbot

[09] Warrior
Anyone has any idea how to fight Cervy? He is so hard to chase, and I feel that no one can JFT all the 3B/66A/wsB/1BB ...
 

Syn_SC

[10] Knight
I'm feeling adventurous today so I'm going to work through all my knowledge of the Voldo and Algol matchups tonight.
I'll post up my thoughts and so forth as they come. I have 3 cans of monster, a full fridge and a lot of cigarettes to hand so this should be pretty thorough.

:)
 

Syn_SC

[10] Knight
Update:
My stick has broken today. Until I get another my Alpha is completely out of commission, I could barely even play Mitsurugi on pad for fuck sake, lol. As such I will have to add up my matchup stuff when I can re-test things. I expect to have a new stick in late january-february.
 

Spartan_Rambo

[08] Mercenary
Ok, Im going to post it here because im not sure where to do.
My brother uses Astaroth, and I use Alpha, I lost a lot because of his 66K(BE), especially after knockdown.
I know that I can guard the first and do JG to the second and then double twister, the problem is that he do random 66K(BE) and that lock me down a lot.
If i try to throw, that attack does TC so it misses.
If I do 66B, 33B or B+K it absorbs the damage and i get launched.
If I try to poke with FC 3B:B there is the posibility of he doesn't do the attack and I get sidesteped in the second and get punished.
1B:B is too risky to use, and even if it connects I don't do combo.
1AAA is too slow to use so i get the double hit and lost momentum and get okizeme.
I know I can poke him with 2K or BB but if I do that the damage I deal is a lol
in the end I lose many times because i have to poke with crappy damage while I get thrown and my guard gauge is red, the only times I manage to win is when I'm very agressive, but still, one 66B missplaced and I get 66K (BE) 22B (BE) 66B (or even a wall or ring out).
So any ideas how to deal with it.
 

Syn_SC

[10] Knight
JG the second hit and its a death sentence. 33B kills him, as does almost everything you listed as useless. Also why are you ever using 2K or BB with Alpha? They are both completely obselete.

You're getting thrown to death? Midscreen your throws are bettesr and youshould be spending a lot of time in FC anyway. You can't win at range? You don't think the mids are good enough? Then there is no hope for you as an Alpha player.
 

Spartan_Rambo

[08] Mercenary
JG the second hit and its a death sentence. 33B kills him, as does almost everything you listed as useless. Also why are you ever using 2K or BB with Alpha? They are both completely obselete.
If I try to fish CH with 33B I can get launched with 66K BE, every launcher of Alpha loses against that attack except FC 3 B:B wich is pretty damn risky to use, so I can't pressure him with anything "big", so I have to poke with B or 2K while he applies 50/50 throw mixups.
Other attacks that can beat his 66K BE are twister and bA but both of them blocked allow Astaroth to get a free throw.
EDIT: I don't have trouble breaking throws or punishing them, the problem isn't that, the problem is that I can't apply almost any pressure because of that attack.
 

Syn_SC

[10] Knight
Almost like every other character who can't apply pressure beacuse of JF Twister, no?
So Asta gets one reversal tool, big deal, he dies if its blocked and its easily baited.