Attacks you may not be using enough

Millionz

[09] Warrior
I stole this thread idea from the Johnny Blaze aka Hot Nikkelz in the Maxi forum. I think there are quite a few moves that Raph players aren't abusing that are worth consideration. Here are the moves and my reasons for them

SEA A- A lot of people seem to hate on this move but I like it for a few reasons
-it tracks to one side (Raph's right) fairly well which is the side that SEA B does not track
- it's +0 on block so depending on the character you're going against you can still pressure with it after it's blocked or do a GI/retreating move/step etc
- The juice: SEA A on HIT leads to some very interesting shenanigans. For starters its on hit it forces your opponent to be backturned and Raph is at a whopping +10. Yes folks...+10. What does this mean? 2 things.
1. Raph has quite a few options that are uninterruptible such as BB,3B, 6K,236B (yes 236B) etc.
2. Because they are BT'ed and are at a such frame disadvantage, after getting hit with SEA A the oppoponent HAS TO BLOCK 3B.

The opponent cannot interrupt 3B, they cannot guard and sidestep 3B, it must be blocked. So post SEA A pretty much equals a free prep mixups for you/soul gauge damage. Also, the opponent cannot interrupt 236B after getting hit with SEA A but they can step it (this is VERY hard with certain characters) so another option you have is just to do 236B for the broken soul gauge damage.

VE K- This move is freaking awesome. A lot of people tend to stick to VE A/throw mixup but the problem with that is if your VE A is blocked you're gonna eat launched (duck the 2nd hit) and if the VE grab is ducked you're gonna get launched. VE K is mid and it tracks. It is unsafe but because of the sidestep Raph takes when he enters VE and because of the blockstun the move, a surprising amount of the time when your opponent blocks it they will probably be off axis which means they can't punish. A lot of times your opponent will end up doing an AA/BB punish off axis (I've even had sophie 236B go the opposite direction because of the way it was blocked)

66A- I mentioned this in an old thread. Although it's high and kinda slow at tip range this tracks very well...and to be frank it's Raph's only means of stopping step outside of 44AB range. It's also got some pretty beefy frames on normal hit too.

AB- Can the 2nd hit of this move be GI'ed? I can't do it and I've never seen it done. This is SUCH an annoying poke. A *pause* AB, A*pause* BB, AB, AB. This move is also only -12 on block!!! Which means with the exception of Amy (because she is a dirty ho) even if your opponent blocks they aren't gonna punish you for it.

I'll add some more later, feel free to add your own


Edit: A while ago I tested the SEA A---236B thing and I was positive that you could step it...but now I am having a super hard time recreating it. From my testing just now, Sophie/Amy cannot step it, unless my timing just sucks
 
Notes -

VE K will ring out, one of few moves that Raph has...

AB is solid, definitely agree it maynot be used enough by some...sucks that it is i16, but will hit more than it should

Also - I would add 6K to this list along with K

K (block) 44B is a sweet setup
 
I was thinking about listing 6K but I think everyone and their mother at this point knows how good that move is.
 
I was thinking about listing 6K but I think everyone and their mother at this point knows how good that move is.

3K is faster, and has better frames on block and hit, making it completely safe. Is there something special about 6K that I've been missing out on?
 
I am wondering ,after get hit by SEα A ,can I just post GI and smash A_B for breaking throw ? specially the chars like Amy(B+K) Sop(A+B) ,even Set(A+B) have auto-GI move.

and yeah, I like 6K ~~ 44K as well.
 
Chi- The thing is after SEA A on hit, the opponent is BT and by the time they press G to turn around and block 3B is already hitting them. I am 90% it cannot be GI'ed, or auto GI'ed by Amy B+K, sophie A+B, etc.
 
Ill be sure to consider these moves more.
Im not sure about what the notation is but there is this kick that's good on a CH. If it lands on a CH you can get yourself some 3B going. I tend to use it while sidestepping.

I think its, 7k? Please correct me if Im wrong, I still don't have all this terminology down yet.
 
I spam AB soooo much. Just stay right in its range, AB, step back, step/8wr around, A/AB again, etc. I think it can be GIed and jumped, but in both cases I guess AA and pausing would work.

Someone mentioned that SEA A TCs all the way through, which nicely complements the frames and tracking. Maybe I should work it in some more instead of SEA 2 2 etc heh.

Most of the time I only use 66A as a round opener, and I'm somewhat leaning toward 22_88AA for mid-range tracking. Guess it just depends on whether you want to edge forward from your current position or not. And I sparingly try 22_88AB for more linear poking goodness.

22_88K would be the roundhouse kick from step/8wr that gets you the Prep combo on CH. I guess you just have to buffer it in if you expect your opponent to step. But at i20 or so it's quite slow for a high move.
 
Good list Millionz.

SEA is basically like the 2nd hit of VE A I suppose.

VE K I'll definately start throwing it in ...especially against those that duck at range by reaction against VE
 
SEA also ducks all highs, whereas SEA B will not beat AA unless delayed to some extent
in my experience +10 and opp BT equals sidethrows.

but 3B is far from free mixups, after they blocked they can step and they can interrups. prep is cool when set up correctly if your opp anticipates it you will want to use it sparringly.
 
Moves like AB or 22AB, if you've conditioned them to expect the low, it's always nice to just throw out the first hit just to watch the opponant duck , as now you're free to space them out
 
8A+B too!! Talim/Maxi/Taki range anti pitbull, decent aGI as well, when you don't think they'll TC. Also a great anti-Yoshimitsu weapon for his dragonfly garbage.

I use ALL those moves Trolt, Thanks for getting more awareness out there for it, As I was going to put it in the Prep guide as well. SEA A should ALWAYS be mixed in a few with the SEA B's, because they'll block it regardless in fear of SEA B. After playing KrazyCD and some other good players, I realized VE Throw/A wasn't going to cut it. VE K is one of the SAFEST UNSAFE moves out there. Another Raphael gimmick.

Ruiner
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I want to hear about SEB use.

SEB K is just garbage there's no logical reason to do it that I can possibly think of. So we're left with SEB A and B

SEB A - Mid range, step cutting, +1 on block.

SEB B - Mid range, Raph Master Combo on CH, Great SC damage on block.

However, this is SEB B we're talking about. WE have to go into prep, then go into SEA, AND THEN go into SEB......so how often are you guys throwing it out? does it get hit often? I usually do it once or twice a match, but it's scary slow to setup, I'm scared most people wont take that much Raphael pimpage before slapping the shit outta me.

Ruiner
 
A lot of people will keep blocking throughout SEA/SEB transitions in fear of being frametrapped, and many more will try to interrupt SEB attacks and end up getting interrupted themselves. The TC on SEA and SEB will save Raph from many of the moves that people may try to use to interrupt the stances. Watch out for Astaroth, Xianghua, Cassandra, and Rock, however, because they can crouch grab you out of the two stances. BTW, what is SEB B on block? Also, SEB B will stun even on regular hit.
 
I enter SEB once I train the opponent to block a few SEA B's off 3B hit, generally happens at least once a match.
 
but 3B is far from free mixups, after they blocked they can step and they can interrups. prep is cool when set up correctly if your opp anticipates it you will want to use it sparringly.


I said mixup in the sense you have the opportunity do a Prep Entering move for no risk. Outside of punishment, any other time you do a prep entering move (3B, 4B, 6B, etc) you run the risk of your attack getting ducked/tech crouched, sidestepped, or GI'ed. This isn't the case after SEA A since they have to block it. Of course they can step, interrupt, after a blocked 3B but Raph has options to deal with those. Even if your opponent anticipates prep you could just do 3B with no prep transition and work from there

edit:

SEB is also pretty good GI whiff punisher. if your opponent tries to get cute and GI'ing SEA B consistently mix in a few SEB B's to throw their timing off
 
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