Attention Cervantes players

[franman]

If you want to reduce damage from iGDR whether on air hit or not or both, how much exactly are we talking here? How much damage are you expecting when the Cervy player does iGDR, iGDR, iGDR combo and 3B into iGDR x 2? iGDR is already hard enough to execute let alone the possibility of input errors and it loses its awesome SC3 tech crouch and tech jump ability.

Also if you want the other move such as 22K, 2A+B, 66B etc. to be punishable what kind of compensation should Cervy get for these certain movesets?

 

[DeathInMyEyes]

FYI, when I say airhit IGDR, I mean the TS look-alike, not the airhit igdr after 3B.

3B igdr b2 does 87 damage without clean hit. I believe that's fine, as long as 3B loses its ability to launch at tip range.

3B igdr igdr is 92 damage without cleanhit, but hard to do and doesn't seem to hit on smaller characters like pyrrha.


Igdr igdr igdr is 97 damage without clean hit.

So reduce the damage on the second igdr and third igdr to whatever floats your boat. Also, it might be a good idea to remove the clean hit completely.

 

[Paranormal_Oreo]

Reduced damage on CH 1A:B.
Make CH 1A:B JF window 1-2 frames smaller.
No launch on tip range 3B.
Smaller launch on 3B in result, making 3B iGDR iGDR relaunch not possible also making 92 damage the most possible meterless damage off of 3B.
Reduced pushback on aB.
Make B+G into iGDR 1 frame window.
Change aB to i12 instead of i11.
Make 4A+B +6 on block, return GB properties from SCIV, make it track 100% to the right, and lower launch allowing only a ground hitting iGDR, or a b2.
Make 6A+B +1 on block.
Make BT B+K -6 on block.
Make CE -17 on JG.
Make 22_88A, A -18 or -19 on block.

Thats my list of changes for Cervy. I am also a Cervy player that thinks he needs to be nefed too.

 

[JustinAkatsuki]

-Reduced damage on CH 1AB
-Reduced damage on an airhit iGDR
-Reduced pushback on aB
-Lose the Clean Hit on iGDR
-Lose the launch on tip range 3B

And there you go, Cervy is fine. I DO play Cervantes, I DON'T favorite him, and my opinion is not biased. He is a good character, but he is not broken. He's in the same boat as Nightmare. Solid B/A tier, but not in need of nerfs or buffs; its other members of the cast that need buffs.

Yeah man I can agree with that, and IGRD isn't all that hard to pull off...I can do 90% of the time atleasts unless im on a bad connection haha

 

[lobo]

+1 for this


Dude head back to Ranked Match, they are missing you there


NOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I'm 36 and 3!

 

[Silent Joel]

-Reduced damage on CH 1AB
-Reduced damage on an airhit iGDR
-Reduced pushback on aB
-Lose the Clean Hit on iGDR
-Lose the launch on tip range 3B

And there you go, Cervy is fine. I DO play Cervantes, I DON'T favorite him, and my opinion is not biased. He is a good character, but he is not broken. He's in the same boat as Nightmare. Solid B/A tier, but not in need of nerfs or buffs; its other members of the cast that need buffs.

Generally agree with this list except, losing clean hit (they should get rid of clean hit all together not just for this move). Also aB should do 30 damage max, and recovery frames 1AB should be better on block (still launchable but not -2400) and bit better on hit. People forget this is the only low he has. I still think they should've kept this move how it was in SC1 (with the added CH JF) plus his old 1K and old 1A/1a. What I'm saying is I want SC1 mixed with SC5 Cervy :-)

Also in terms of balancing a character, when do thing like RO/Wall splat game come into into. I think Cervy's pretty weak in this department since all of his stuff it too situational.

 

[ShenYuan]

Lolo expresses my thoughts very well. Cervy is really good at what he does, but not so good at offense.

Even though his defense is great.... look.

aB -18
ba - 16
3A- -16
66A -11ish -12ish.
22AA -16

So what, are you scared of 6A, AA, 3K. I mean respect them but the things that hurt are very unsafe.

He has lousy punishers for low attacks and unsafe moves that pushout (natsu 66B... and i'd like to say natsu is quite bad for him lol)

And he does need the 4B BE. I cannot see how this move is overpowered...

His lows are terrible... only good thing is 44A and 11K mixup somewhat well... but still.

I STILL think he is top 8 but he is not broken. And I don't think I'm underestimating him. I however thing many people don't know how to fight him.

If you are rush down player, running up and blocking makes him -_-" Especially if your punishment is sharp. If you are defensive it can be a bit tricky, because its easier to land 3B whiff punishes on you, but if you just stand there and .... G its not so easy for cervantes. his guard break shit is all linear.

I hope i don't make him sound like he sucks too much, because i still think he's really good. well designed character i feel. Rewards effort.

 

[franman]

If you are rush down player, running up and blocking makes him -_-" Especially if your punishment is sharp.

Oh gawd I remember that horrorible experience one night against a Patrokolos player.

 

[sephalump]

I feel bad for ShenYuan given the fact his well thought out and expressed post is just going to get swamped by more people whining, then discrediting any good post with ad hominem or just straight up not responding and still considering themselves the victor.

 

[Eli123s]

Oh, I was only waiting for your response. =P

I know you were, as my post have such a profound affect on you. Also Lexia does to much guard damages and that need to be nerf, hopefully they'll address that in the next patch by toning it own. =P

If you want to reduce damage from iGDR whether on air hit or not or both, how much exactly are we talking here? How much damage are you expecting when the Cervy player does iGDR, iGDR, iGDR combo and 3B into iGDR x 2? iGDR is already hard enough to execute let alone the possibility of input errors and it loses its awesome SC3 tech crouch and tech jump ability.

First off iGDR is not diffcult to preform. Its just like pyrrha/pat/ ect 236:B. iGDR is sliding quickly 214 which is easy. The only "hard part" is hitting the B on the 4. It can be overcome if you try to hit the B on the 1, and with human reaction you'll press it on the 4. Not saying iGDR super easy, but stop trying to present it as a difficult input or some kind of justification. And if you mess up that your problem, go into training mode and practice.


3B into iGDR*2 is like 90+ damage. And if I block 3B I can only punish with AA. But if you use 3B at max range which still launches and cannot punish with AA because your to far. No meter in this combo, yea balanced!

The thing about 3B is Cery players are only looking at what alpha/omega/pyrrha punishment, if 3B become -15. But I'm trying to see what the majority of the cast can do. If 3B become -15 the majority of the cast can punish with BB, they get 30+ damage/frame advantage and BB has longer range and would hit max range Cery's 3Bit. This would be fairer trade.


Franman: 22K tracks and beat verticals/horizontals/body attacks, and its safe, +on hit, KND on CH/ GI. And you feel this move need to be compensated if something is removed. IMO I feel it should loss it ability to GI body attack, it can be safe and do the other things. That way if I expect it I can keep momentum using body attacks. Right now the ways to beat that are back dash and whiff punish or dash in 50/50 throw. Either way I am giving up my momentum. Even Ivy 214B you can used mid horizontals or low horizontal to stuff it and keep momentum or step and whiff punish.

The thread is becoming a bit more rational, it a good thing. Also franman you suck, the next time we meet all Cery going to do is taste the asphalt as I stomp his face to the ground. OOOOHH

 

[WuHT]

If you are rush down player, running up and blocking makes him -_-" .

I am unclear as to the point of this comment. Are you suggesting that cervantes is in the minority (for being weak against) when fighting against a strategy that involves inching/dashing forward and guarding ?

 

[ShenYuan]

Wuht:

Yes I am saying that this is so. If the opponent runs up to throw in setups or mixups, we have to throw out moves that are scary enough to make people not want to do that. For it to be scary, its gotta hurt. For cervy, the stuff that hurts are are especially unsafe. aB is launch punishable. 3A, bA and all that are -16. All these options are also kind of short so they whiff easily if the person just decides to tango and guard at their fringe...

I shall qualify "especially"

Sieg/NM has AA that does more damage than aB and is + on block...
Pat has 44A/66B
Asta has 4A/44A
.... bla bla bla

I hope people can see how these keepout options hurt also hurt like hell and are much much much much more safer than Cervy's more "delicious" get out of my face moves...... They aren't fun to run up and block against because they are safe and allow set-play from mid-range....

So because of this, I cannot see how his 3B is a problem at ALL. Like Lolo said, it offsets this weakness.

This does not mean that cervy's control is BAD! In fact i'd say that because it is unsafe, and so painful, people really have to run up and block, and FOCUS because the punishing does require some anticipation and attention.... that makes it easier for him to start mindgames.... So yeah its not bad, its just different.

At high level, cervy can't just sit there and throw out painful shit with impunity. has to keep moving.

 

[Age_of_Truth]

I wanted to highlight the aB stuff because this isn't all true:

aB is launch punishable.

Only at point blank range. At mid range it's safe vs a lot of the cast.

NM has AA that does more damage than aB and is + on block...
Pat has 44A/66B
Asta has 4A/44A

Yes, but aB is i11. And you can't step it. And you can't duck it.

I hope people can see how these keepout options hurt also hurt like hell and are much much much much more safer than Cervy's more "delicious" get out of my face moves...... They aren't fun to run up and block against because they are safe and allow set-play from mid-range....
At high level, cervy can't just sit there and throw out painful shit with impunity. has to keep moving.

Cervy can throw out aB as much as he wants at mid range vs many characters. If you can't punish it, then believe me, trying to run up and block is not fun at all. It's so fast it will often interrupt any attempts to run up and block unless you are incrementally shifting forwards. But against this kind of play he's got backstep, kB, and throws.

I've said before that aB is the only move that I feel is really dumb. Just less damage, or less pushback, or -19 (so everyone can actually punish it) and it'd be fine. Maybe the combo damage after 4B BE is a bit much too, especially after how good this move is following the backstep nerf.

 

[ShenYuan]

Only at point blank range. At mid range it's safe vs a lot of the cast.

True. At mid-range its not -18 any longer. but if you are at that range, only the B hits, so imo, the right response is a box step at that range to lure out the B. doesn't deal full 40 either.

Yes, but aB is i11. And you can't step it. And you can't duck it

Yes the speed is an issue, which is why i suggested a nerf to that in belial's thread. i do not disagree with you, however those examples were raised to explain how walking up to block is relatively higher risk for cervy. No dsiagreement about its mad speed.

Cervy can throw out aB as much as he wants at mid range vs many characters. If you can't punish it, then believe me, trying to run up and block is not fun at all. It's so fast it will often interrupt any attempts to run up and block unless you are incrementally shifting forwards. But against this kind of play he's got backstep, kB, and throws.

At mid-range its quite possible to box step the B ender because the A is short IMO. When i mean run up and guard, i don't mean to do it all the time. Its part of a general strategy where you swap between throwing out shit or going for setups etc, so his "backstep, kB and throws" isn't always free. Im just suggesting that being conscious about how punishable his keep out is really will keep cervy players on their toes. the last thing you want is a cervy who knows you CANT punish and aB over and over until you dies.

 

[Therenovator]

True. At mid-range its not -18 any longer. but if you are at that range, only the B hits, so imo, the right response is a box step at that range to lure out the B. doesn't deal full 40 either.




Yes the speed is an issue, which is why i suggested a nerf to that in belial's thread. i do not disagree with you, however those examples were raised to explain how walking up to block is relatively higher risk for cervy. No dsiagreement about its mad speed.



At mid-range its quite possible to box step the B ender because the A is short IMO. When i mean run up and guard, i don't mean to do it all the time. Its part of a general strategy where you swap between throwing out shit or going for setups etc, so his "backstep, kB and throws" isn't always free. Im just suggesting that being conscious about how punishable his keep out is really will keep cervy players on their toes. the last thing you want is a cervy who knows you CANT punish and aB over and over until you dies.

im sorry dude but your totally clueless your so biased its un real
your arguments are flawed,cervantes is pretty OP right now.
i just dont understand why so many players that comment here are so biased.

anyone who tells me oh 1ab is unsafe its high risk /high reward is stupid.
that move never ever gest blocked unless your spamming it it could be -60
it will still be low risk high reward because no one can react to it.
besides if you try and duck stupidly your going to eat a 3b into ridiculous damage for an easy combo.
not even to mention it has range and kills step for huge damage.
this move needs to be made like mitsu 2kb -16 on hit, because right now its pretty broken.
AB is another move that needs adjusting, the push back is insane its not punishable by most of the cast.


why do people even waste their time commenting on balance threads.
PS have their own opinion while they may take certain aspects into account.
they make their own decisions,
im not sure why people haven't noticed that ,the guys making the decisions will never see your posts.
the only time they will listen is if there a glich or game breaking bugs.
the fact that so many of you waste your time posting wishlist, is just plain comical.
patch 1.02 should have shown you all that namco make thier own decisions.
examples of this are ralph,leixia nerfs and viola buffs.

 

[Maxou]

Wuht:

Yes I am saying that this is so. If the opponent runs up to throw in setups or mixups, we have to throw out moves that are scary enough to make people not want to do that. For it to be scary, its gotta hurt. For cervy, the stuff that hurts are are especially unsafe. aB is launch punishable. 3A, bA and all that are -16. All these options are also kind of short so they whiff easily if the person just decides to tango and guard at their fringe...

And I'll adress this since it's kinda untrue.
If the opponents runs up to throw in setups or mix ups, you have tons of fast unterrupters moves with Cervantes. And most of them are safe. No need to be scary, they only need to KD or be + on hit.
If they decides to dash up/guard, they give up the mix up opportunity they had, and they can get thrown with Cervantes imba throws.

Oh btw, the weakness of 3B is kinda fun : "it can be stepped". Sick weakness. When you have one of the best antistep game in the whole game.

 

[docvizzo]

And I'll adress this since it's kinda untrue.
If the opponents runs up to throw in setups or mix ups, you have tons of fast unterrupters moves with Cervantes. And most of them are safe.

Tons of safe interrupters? Which one? AA, 6A, 3K? What are the other tons? Which one gives KND? Specific moves please, no general bullshit.

 

[Maxou]

Tons of safe interrupters? Which one? AA, 6A, 3K? What are the other tons? Which one gives KND? Specific moves please, no general bullshit.

*Sigh* Check frame data / move list, I have no need to teach you your own character. I counted around 10 (I probably forgot some) moves that are safe and =<i16, not counting the tons of evade moves he has (TJ, TC, Tech step).
Have fun in your general bullshit where Cervantes is a really slow, and really unsafe character. And he has defensive problems. Or offensive ones. Poor Cervantes :(

 

[franman]

First off iGDR is not diffcult to preform. Its just like pyrrha/pat/ ect 236:B. iGDR is sliding quickly 214 which is easy. The only "hard part" is hitting the B on the 4. It can be overcome if you try to hit the B on the 1, and with human reaction you'll press it on the 4. Not saying iGDR super easy, but stop trying to present it as a difficult input or some kind of justification. And if you mess up that your problem, go into training mode and practice.

but sir Eli I've already practice enough to be confident at the level I execute iGDR. The thing about iGDR is that in heated battles it's common to mess up iGDR even if your level of execution is on par. And when opponents throw out moves that can be punishable by iGDR on block it can be extremely difficult in such situations to execute it because the timing maybe off besides input errors.

It's more than just iGDR being difficult to pull off or just not as super easy it's the precision it takes to punish a punishable move on block.

I can only tolerate iGDR dmg nerf but if it comes to a point where iGDR x 3 combo is less than 90 then I think that's retarded but I can deal with it.

3B into iGDR*2 is like 90+ damage. And if I block 3B I can only punish with AA. But if you use 3B at max range which still launches and cannot punish with AA because your to far. No meter in this combo, yea balanced!

The thing about 3B is Cery players are only looking at what alpha/omega/pyrrha punishment, if 3B become -15. But I'm trying to see what the majority of the cast can do. If 3B become -15 the majority of the cast can punish with BB, they get 30+ damage/frame advantage and BB has longer range and would hit max range Cery's 3Bit. This would be fairer trade.

Umm I have nothing against it infact I think me and docvizzo as well as others agree on this base on 3B on tip range. JESUS CHRIST ELI READ MY PREVIOUS PREVIOUS POST!

22K tracks and beat verticals/horizontals/body attacks, and its safe, +on hit, KND on CH/ GI. And you feel this move need to be compensated if something is removed. IMO I feel it should loss it ability to GI body attack, it can be safe and do the other things. That way if I expect it I can keep momentum using body attacks. Right now the ways to beat that are back dash and whiff punish or dash in 50/50 throw. Either way I am giving up my momentum. Even Ivy 214B you can used mid horizontals or low horizontal to stuff it and keep momentum or step and whiff punish.

Correction 22K beats horizontals and kicks that move horizontally except lows. You're referring more to his 33_99A and DC A but that move ain't much plus it's a high attack. But NEwayz I put these safes up to see the reason behind this and see if we can come up with a negeotiation.

The thread is becoming a bit more rational, it a good thing. Also franman you suck, the next time we meet all Cery going to do is taste the asphalt as I stomp his face to the ground. OOOOHH

Ya thanx to me since you keep calling me out.

 

[docvizzo]

*Sigh* Check frame data / move list, I have no need to teach you your own character. I counted around 10 (I probably forgot some) moves that are safe and =<i16, not counting the tons of evade moves he has (TJ, TC, Tech step).
Have fun in your general bullshit where Cervantes is a really slow, and really unsafe character. And he has defensive problems. Or offensive ones. Poor Cervantes :(

Nobody seriously ever said he is a weak character, at least not me. But when people start whining about 22K of Cervantes or bA and trying to nerf 3B with it somehow gets ridiculous. Same people who defended SC4 Ivy as being legit since she has to "work hard", lol. Thats the reason the discussion started. Maybe it way my fault to ever even answer to this scrubwhining. I just wanted to defend those retarded claims.

Everybody agreed about the discussed changes about 1AB and ab, Rest is just scrubby whining. Now you people come here and act as we started whining about him in the first place. We just reacted at some laughable complains about some random 25 Damaging moves.