Buckling Down: Talim's Matchups

ZeroEffect317

ZeroEffect317

[13] Hero
SC6 Talim Matchup Discussion Thread

General Thread for any and all of Talim's matchups. Maybe there's a better way to do these kinds of things, but I think having individual matchup threads will just clutter everything. There is however a Talim specific Discord server linked in it's own thread so if you NEED that top tier organization, you can sign up and go there for free.

So far I haven't seen a matchup where Talim dominates, just yet, but the common tough ones seem to be the "Zoners". Characters like Ivy, Nightmare, Azwel (not technically a Zoner), and Seong Mina tend to come up more than most. But feel free to duscuss whatever opinions you have.

Some Punishment Guides by FyreNecromancer:
SOPHITIA

VOLDO

ASTAROTH

TAKI

GERALT

SIEGFRIED
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zqe0Xf4TpHc


AZWEL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHavIN4mA1s


SEONG MI-NA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXOBhUZiIf8


YOSHIMITSU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZP0O-Xbf31A


IVY


NIGHTMARE


GROH


KILIK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUsE44IFiZo

XIANGHUA


MAXI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GV9f_Y9FVx4

MITSURUGI


ZASALAMEL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjf3mZMwqDM

RAPHAEL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EN63dFxB3qc


CERVANTES


TIRA


Y2B
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdIlpSPSms4

TALIM
 
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Not really a discussion, but perhaps a useful tidbit...

Astaroths like to punish AABB or B(B) on block with that uh... hades knee or whatever it's called. If you do catch one doing that, if you do AAB(B) into WNF and cancel that into WNC~K, you actually lethal hit the knee. So a useful deterant for greedy Astaroths who won't settle for just a 2K, or whatever option he has to punish it normally.
 
If you’re afraid of the Ivy mixup from 2A+G and 2B+K, you can RE and build meter and get out of stance OR you can GI
 
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Darkmoonlight said:
If you’re afraid of the Ivy mixup from 2A+G and 2B+K, you can RE and build meter and get out of stance OR you can GI
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I wouldn't recommend GI here because, A.) timing issues under real game pressure, and B.) she can cancel it and make you whiff. RE is the safer choice since if nothing happens you can just leap away (or leap towards if you're a real man, lol)
 
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I'm starting to re-think my entire approach to the Mina matchup. I still think the range difference will be a problem no matter what, but I'm seeing just how much of SC4 and SC2 habits I have still regarding anti-Mina. Before, you could opt to block something, and dash in a bunch, and pressure (SC2) or abuse the guard gauge (SC4). Or just punish her moves up close like 3B and 8A+B.

(God I miss when 2B did REAL Guard Damage... rip)

But now it feels like Talim is a lot more of a defensive character than she ever was. Which is not really how she's normally designed, to be fair.

Placing RE against Mina seems like it will be key. Be warned though, as long as Wind Charmer remains unfixed, any RE cancel you attempt runs the risk of getting hit by her 22B. In fact, Wind Charmer is the WORST option to dodge that linear Vert since at least if you get air hit, she gets no followup. Still, finding where to mix RE in with your pressure is super important. Mina has plenty of get off me tools now, (most notably Soul Charge... you have to watch as the matchup gets worse with the push of a button), but forcing her to use them is better than the alternative of trying to play around her mistakes at range like you could in SC2 and SC4.

Just my thoughts.
 
What's the matchup dynamic against Siegfried / Nightmare?

For once, I want to avoid the stage edges like the plague because they can RO you without even trying even if they're the ones with back against the abyss. For ranged characters, they have quite fast horizontals and of course 4AB is damn annoying.

Can you guys discern the moves from their early animations? Some of them seems to blend. Which are the best option selects against their tactics?
 
With nightmare you need to know his move set, play defensive, and throw pokes to mess up his timing. That will slow him down and allow you to handle him a lot better.

I still struggle since his damage and speed is insane, but most people spam the same 5-8 moves and you should know how to react to those.
 
I enjoy the Mina matchup. Truth be told, if I could learn to react to whatever move of hers is the guard break low, I would have very little big problems with the matchup. I mean, I can block it, but that's not what you want to be doing. Minas use that to steal momentum, and I really need to not let that happen. Other than that, it's just a basic walk-block gameplan, which I'm used to.

Of course, I don't know if I've fought any super good Minas or not. Most of them seem to be really bad at defense. Again, if I could just get over that one move, I feel like I could destroy most Minas up-close. Fought some highest ranked ones, but I'm not sure how much that means.

@ZeroEffect317

Calling Talim a more defensive oriented character might well be why I tend to feel right at home with her. My playstyle of choice (and a common 3S playstyle) is to be offensive-defensive: get right up in the opponent's face and then wait for them to fuck up. Which is how I tend to play my Talim. All about that in-fight bobbing and weaving.

More I play Talim, the more I feel she is just a solid character. She's got some really solid oki options from most launchers that end with 4B(A), so you can just rinse repeat a lot of her oki. Sort of a vortex character in her own way once she gets a launcher in.

--

I think as the game progresses the hardest match-ups for Talim will be Ivy and Sophie. I played like crap during it, but Moneymuffins so far is the person who has beaten me the worst out of everybody. He opted for the strategy you should use against Talim -- that secret fighting game tech no one ever likes to do: block. Secret strat, but she does in-fact lose to blocking. In a turn based battle of punishes, she will lose.
 
is there anything you can do after Xiang gi's you and uses her uncharged A+B? I don't seem to be able to re GI and it's always a lethal hit with decent damage and in some cases a really fast ring out.
 
ZeroEffect317 said:
Pretty sure that move is duckable.
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there is a sped up version though A+B6 that causes the move to no longer be a guard break but come out faster, it seems to come out in the animation of your character being gi'd I may not be giing at the appropriate time perhaps?
 
Here are some general tips for learning to play this game and Talim.

1) If you are new, make sure you know all her moves and you can input them correctly. Learn some basic combos, don’t get too fancy.

2) Learn timing and when to use the moves. E.g, Use 3B to punish people who stay on the floor, 4BK to stop steppers, etc.

3) Learn how to use RE. Love it or hate it, it’s part of the game and you need to learn how to use it effectively.

These steps takes a while, but practicing against the computer can be helpful. Don’t even think about the Aa glitch until you have these aspects down. These alone will get you far.

Now that you have the fundamentals down, you can dig a little deeper.

4) Now that your move list is on autopilot, start paying attention to your opponent more during matches and react accordingly.

Are they stepping a lot?
How are they reacting on oki?
What move do they to use to use to close distance?
Are they using GI or are a lot?
Do they have a repeatable flow (this is when they continually use moves ina certain order).
Are they using (breaking) a specific throw or switching it up.

5) Learn advanced mechanics such as GI, sidestepping, tech traps, and advanced combos.

6) Learn player move lists and specific match ups.

Between RE, instant/invincible CE, and Soul charges, people can get away with spamming 5-6 moves strong moves and have a fairly decent win rate, esp. agaisnt talim. As a result, you really have to pay attention to know what the person is throwing and how you are reacting. You can’t play sloppy and repeat the same mistakes. Simultaneously, you need to be consistently punishing whenever possible and maximizing that.
 
what is talim's fastest mid? I find that when I'm trying to get in I'm using aa but against characters that have strong TC in their kits I find myself getting stomped because that's my inherent go to. What should I be using instead?
 
Oozz said:
With nightmare you need to know his move set, play defensive, and throw pokes to mess up his timing. That will slow him down and allow you to handle him a lot better.

I still struggle since his damage and speed is insane, but most people spam the same 5-8 moves and you should know how to react to those.
Click to expand...

I actually don’t think this is the case. There is a guy on twitch, he’s the no. 1 talim player and he’s all very offensive, so I think I’m just not playing right
 
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Fuzzieviking said:
is there anything you can do after Xiang gi's you and uses her uncharged A+B? I don't seem to be able to re GI and it's always a lethal hit with decent damage and in some cases a really fast ring out.
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I see what you mean now. You can RE the uncharged version and react with a WNC cancel for the GB version. There's no hidden middle timing. She either goes for the fast one or the GB.

Or if you get a medium or heavy GI, you should be able to just duck in time.
 
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Fuzzieviking said:
what is talim's fastest mid? I find that when I'm trying to get in I'm using aa but against characters that have strong TC in their kits I find myself getting stomped because that's my inherent go to. What should I be using instead?
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Fastest move to stop TC buttons is 2A
Fastest pure mids would be BB, 4B, & 3K
 
I just need Ivy and Azwel to burn in fires. I can deal with mina, but they have tools for everything and they all work even when it seems like they shouldn't. meanwhile WNC cant get a side step...

And when you get in, specially on ivy, RE, SC, CE, + a plethora of good upclose options reset the range and you have to start from 0 again. Why do these people get so many tools??
 
I hear ya. Azwel is tough. I really have no answer but to just brute force my way in and take the hits and shrug them off. I figure that I should focus on improving what I do when I get in first then getting in that obstacle course.
 
Every now and again WNC serves to be more evasive than a step.. sometimes, for reasons which perplex me. I do wish I could see the hurtbox on it, because it's very weird.

But anyway, useful to know information for the Sophie match-up: you can WNC to Sophie's left after a blocked TAS A to avoid both the A and B follow-ups, getting yourself a clean WNC B(B) combo afterwards. Slightly less than the hard read counterparts to those follow-ups, but still a very solid 72~75 damage with no reactions required.

She can choose to stop at the TAS A which can punish the WNC, but still, that's an added layer of hesitation much worth having in a match-up I consider one of the Talim's hardest.
 
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