[Buffalo, NY] How'd we get to be so S-RANK?
- Thread starter ChaCha
- Start date
BlackandRed
[09] Warrior
Tony, I bet you were as disapointed as I was with this weeks "special" announcement. Some Japanese only merch and...a release date? That's great and all....thanks Capcom....
Rsnake
[09] Warrior
and a collectors edition too >.>
KowtowRobinson
[10] Knight
"I can already hear some voices in the back saying “What about info about new characters?!” To that, I can only say please wait a little while longer."
Voices in the back? Yeah try EVERY FUCKING FAN OF THE GAME. Fuck I hate that game and even I want to know if Dudley made it in, I mean damn.
Voices in the back? Yeah try EVERY FUCKING FAN OF THE GAME. Fuck I hate that game and even I want to know if Dudley made it in, I mean damn.
BlackandRed
[09] Warrior
Ok so now we know how Jug and Tony P think about Okizeme attack and defense.
Here's what I hear you guys are saying -
Jug says - If you know the matchup and can recognize the situation you are in when knocked down, your defensive options boil down to a 50/50.
/\ I pretty much agree with this. I think the key is recognizing the situation, and which are the best choices you can make that defend against the most number of options. This means it’s extremely important to consider okizeme on a matchup basis.
Tony P - The attacker has the advantage because he can disguise the situation so it makes it hard for the guy on the ground to know what is going to happen next. This puts things in the favor of the attacker.
/\
This is also pretty much true. But also think that, if you have to guess, as the defender you can make a really good guess with the above posts by jug.
This is all really Okizeme 101. Pretty much everything Jug and Tony (and hey Tony G too) said is correct, accurate and well thought out. What I’m curious to know is, how do the guys who are relatively new to competitive fighting games think about oki? For example Kyle you mentioned that you want to improve your Oki game. Do you believe your oki is weak because you don't consider your opponents options when they are knocked down, or is it some other reason?
My take on Okizeme in SF4 is this - knockdowns let you set up a generally safe offense.
The reason why this is good is because it gives you free chances for damage, builds meter, limits the options of the opponent, and affects them psychologically in several ways.
The important thing to note here is that the way you do it changes depending on the match up.
Here's an example-
Ryu gets an untechable knockdown on a Honda - If Ryu safe jumps at Honda with j.HP and option select a SRK, there is literally nothing that Honda can do besides chill and react to whatever you are going to do. So Ryu can do that again and again on knockdown since Honda doesn't have a counter. Use the safe jumps to set up tick throws, frame traps, baits, whatever you need to get in damage. Even if Honda rides out the situation, you are still gaining lots of meter.
If you can condition Honda to chill and block high when you knock him down, the big finish is when you empty jump in, low forward EX tatsu xx ultra in the corner for the win. Tony mentioned this - use your Oki to set up a baseline expectation. Then make the change when your opponent least expects it (you have to decide when this is).
Another, much simpler example of setting up a “baseline” would be this- It doesn't matter if your opponent techs five of your throws if you can win the game by punishing his sixth tech attempt.
So tl;dr,
If all this Okizeme theory coming from Jug, Tony, and me doesn't sound like old hat to you talk to us at game nights about how to pressure when you get a knockdown.
Also, if how you think about Okizeme is different from what we have said, post how you think about it. Talk about what you think as someone knocked down and someone who is pressuring after an opponent gets knocked down.
To Jug and Tony, if I missed the point of your posts put up another reply on the thread to correct me, or else we'll talk on Saturday.
Here's what I hear you guys are saying -
Jug says - If you know the matchup and can recognize the situation you are in when knocked down, your defensive options boil down to a 50/50.
/\ I pretty much agree with this. I think the key is recognizing the situation, and which are the best choices you can make that defend against the most number of options. This means it’s extremely important to consider okizeme on a matchup basis.
Tony P - The attacker has the advantage because he can disguise the situation so it makes it hard for the guy on the ground to know what is going to happen next. This puts things in the favor of the attacker.
/\
This is also pretty much true. But also think that, if you have to guess, as the defender you can make a really good guess with the above posts by jug.
This is all really Okizeme 101. Pretty much everything Jug and Tony (and hey Tony G too) said is correct, accurate and well thought out. What I’m curious to know is, how do the guys who are relatively new to competitive fighting games think about oki? For example Kyle you mentioned that you want to improve your Oki game. Do you believe your oki is weak because you don't consider your opponents options when they are knocked down, or is it some other reason?
My take on Okizeme in SF4 is this - knockdowns let you set up a generally safe offense.
The reason why this is good is because it gives you free chances for damage, builds meter, limits the options of the opponent, and affects them psychologically in several ways.
The important thing to note here is that the way you do it changes depending on the match up.
Here's an example-
Ryu gets an untechable knockdown on a Honda - If Ryu safe jumps at Honda with j.HP and option select a SRK, there is literally nothing that Honda can do besides chill and react to whatever you are going to do. So Ryu can do that again and again on knockdown since Honda doesn't have a counter. Use the safe jumps to set up tick throws, frame traps, baits, whatever you need to get in damage. Even if Honda rides out the situation, you are still gaining lots of meter.
If you can condition Honda to chill and block high when you knock him down, the big finish is when you empty jump in, low forward EX tatsu xx ultra in the corner for the win. Tony mentioned this - use your Oki to set up a baseline expectation. Then make the change when your opponent least expects it (you have to decide when this is).
Another, much simpler example of setting up a “baseline” would be this- It doesn't matter if your opponent techs five of your throws if you can win the game by punishing his sixth tech attempt.
So tl;dr,
If all this Okizeme theory coming from Jug, Tony, and me doesn't sound like old hat to you talk to us at game nights about how to pressure when you get a knockdown.
Also, if how you think about Okizeme is different from what we have said, post how you think about it. Talk about what you think as someone knocked down and someone who is pressuring after an opponent gets knocked down.
To Jug and Tony, if I missed the point of your posts put up another reply on the thread to correct me, or else we'll talk on Saturday.
ok so a lot of talk about wakeup or oki situations. i agree with what tony g/p, jug and jeff said and honestly i have nothing much to add to that. instead, here's my thought process about oki's and i hope that you guys can help me really develop that oki pressure.
ok let's start from the beginning when i was first starting out.. first character was ken. whenever i got a knockdown with ken all i did was crossup. as i faced stronger players this obviously didn't work b/c there was no disguise or other option i was going to do. it was a crossup and that was that. if it hit, i did my combo and if it didn't, i tick kara throw'd. obviously against weaker opponents this worked out real well and i got a false sense of having a good offense. i do think that i actually got pretty good at implementing this style of offense through getting better execution, even though it was ridiculously obvious.
as i moved onto ryu for the longest time i played ryu like he was ken [ tried to rushdown, knockdown into crossups ]. so more obvious tick setups but without the advantage of a big range kara throw. however other parts of my offense started to improve as i learned more about the game and started jumping in from the front while mixing in crossup tatsus off knockdowns. again the front jump in + crossup tatsu mixup worked for a bit then it got obvious.. i didn't really develop any other setups sadly [ besides some safe jump stuff towards the end of my ryu days ] and mostly won by trying to play solid and have good execution. this goes back to what jeff discussed about how we like to improve what we do and apply it well, instead of expanding our skill sets.
now i'm @ viper. she's a beast at oki situations and making people guess, however the tendency i have developed through all my characters isn't to really read my opponent and try exploit it; instead it is to just mindlessly apply my offense as best as possible. so what results is a very readable oki offense. the biggest problem i see myself having is doing something that falls into my patterned offense and then second guessing it saying "oh i shoulda done this instead" yet i don't learn from it really.
so here's a situation that i come across a lot as viper..
i got a knockdown and MOST OF THE TIME the only things i think to do is burn kick or jump in with hk. depending on the distance of where viper is to the knocked down body basically tells you where the burn kick is going to land. a few steps away from the body means front flame kick and right up to the body is a crossup. i do not consider neither the options of my opponent or any other oki options i might have learned through other situations where i might have burn kicked on oki, i just blanket all of it with these 2 burn kicks. now maybe something like just walking up and sitting there is a great option; as i might get a punishable reversal, yet i never really seem to do it. i also sometimes hold back what i'm trying to do in fear of reversals b/c i don't recognize the situations where my opponent is trying to be safe or if he's gonna be reckless with a reversal.
my mind is trained to basically apply this pattern over and over on oki and i see this as a big plateau in my fighting game development. i can only get so far doing this style of patterned offense that has consistently followed me as i developed 3 characters so far.
so the questions i have for all of you are these:
what can i do to think of options better?
what signs do you guys look for to tell when you want to be pressuring more or holding the offense back to bait reversals?
what can i do to start conditioning my opponent?
i learned some stuff just by writing this up b/c it made me think a lot about my thought process on oki situations for me, which honestly usually is a blank mind LOL but maybe i'll start trying to see things more.
ok let's start from the beginning when i was first starting out.. first character was ken. whenever i got a knockdown with ken all i did was crossup. as i faced stronger players this obviously didn't work b/c there was no disguise or other option i was going to do. it was a crossup and that was that. if it hit, i did my combo and if it didn't, i tick kara throw'd. obviously against weaker opponents this worked out real well and i got a false sense of having a good offense. i do think that i actually got pretty good at implementing this style of offense through getting better execution, even though it was ridiculously obvious.
as i moved onto ryu for the longest time i played ryu like he was ken [ tried to rushdown, knockdown into crossups ]. so more obvious tick setups but without the advantage of a big range kara throw. however other parts of my offense started to improve as i learned more about the game and started jumping in from the front while mixing in crossup tatsus off knockdowns. again the front jump in + crossup tatsu mixup worked for a bit then it got obvious.. i didn't really develop any other setups sadly [ besides some safe jump stuff towards the end of my ryu days ] and mostly won by trying to play solid and have good execution. this goes back to what jeff discussed about how we like to improve what we do and apply it well, instead of expanding our skill sets.
now i'm @ viper. she's a beast at oki situations and making people guess, however the tendency i have developed through all my characters isn't to really read my opponent and try exploit it; instead it is to just mindlessly apply my offense as best as possible. so what results is a very readable oki offense. the biggest problem i see myself having is doing something that falls into my patterned offense and then second guessing it saying "oh i shoulda done this instead" yet i don't learn from it really.
so here's a situation that i come across a lot as viper..
i got a knockdown and MOST OF THE TIME the only things i think to do is burn kick or jump in with hk. depending on the distance of where viper is to the knocked down body basically tells you where the burn kick is going to land. a few steps away from the body means front flame kick and right up to the body is a crossup. i do not consider neither the options of my opponent or any other oki options i might have learned through other situations where i might have burn kicked on oki, i just blanket all of it with these 2 burn kicks. now maybe something like just walking up and sitting there is a great option; as i might get a punishable reversal, yet i never really seem to do it. i also sometimes hold back what i'm trying to do in fear of reversals b/c i don't recognize the situations where my opponent is trying to be safe or if he's gonna be reckless with a reversal.
my mind is trained to basically apply this pattern over and over on oki and i see this as a big plateau in my fighting game development. i can only get so far doing this style of patterned offense that has consistently followed me as i developed 3 characters so far.
so the questions i have for all of you are these:
what can i do to think of options better?
what signs do you guys look for to tell when you want to be pressuring more or holding the offense back to bait reversals?
what can i do to start conditioning my opponent?
i learned some stuff just by writing this up b/c it made me think a lot about my thought process on oki situations for me, which honestly usually is a blank mind LOL but maybe i'll start trying to see things more.
kyo45
[09] Warrior
^what he said. basically thats how i feel about my oki game. i think i get into patterns and i make my stuff too easy to read and therefore i get baited out and lose that advantage i had. i'm trying to improve that part of my gameplay by working on some wake up options in training mode.
also i'm trying to get some work on my footsie game so when we play you might notice i'll be throwing out random s.mp and s. lp, s. lk etc. trying to learn the ranges of abels crappy pokes and how i can apply them better. I think footsies are so important in this game and a lot of the players in our crew don't use them to there full potential. the only players i really see using them a lot and well are jug, tony p, jeff, cha and phill. i was playing online against this really nice chun player that beat me a few times previously, so before i played him again i just sat there and thought " what can i do that i'm not already doing to win this match" what came to mind was useing my pokes, playing a better footsie game and a better oki game and i won. so basically it boils down to basics.
also i'm trying to get some work on my footsie game so when we play you might notice i'll be throwing out random s.mp and s. lp, s. lk etc. trying to learn the ranges of abels crappy pokes and how i can apply them better. I think footsies are so important in this game and a lot of the players in our crew don't use them to there full potential. the only players i really see using them a lot and well are jug, tony p, jeff, cha and phill. i was playing online against this really nice chun player that beat me a few times previously, so before i played him again i just sat there and thought " what can i do that i'm not already doing to win this match" what came to mind was useing my pokes, playing a better footsie game and a better oki game and i won. so basically it boils down to basics.
Well, I'd say gouken would be in a similar position to abel and possibly viper... Yet we've all seen his normals put to some good use I think.
I say gouken is similar because if you compare him to ryu, almost all his normals have slower startup and are active for fewer frames. (Most of his are only active for 2. Only two of ryu's normals are like that.) He does have the benefit of most of his normals generally taking less time total though. So he will generally be more difficult to whiff punish.
I think it's all about getting a feel for a character's capabilities and limitations. But hey, I main ryu. What do I know? :p
I say gouken is similar because if you compare him to ryu, almost all his normals have slower startup and are active for fewer frames. (Most of his are only active for 2. Only two of ryu's normals are like that.) He does have the benefit of most of his normals generally taking less time total though. So he will generally be more difficult to whiff punish.
I think it's all about getting a feel for a character's capabilities and limitations. But hey, I main ryu. What do I know? :p
haha dude phil don't put yourself down like that. you know a lot and your ryu is getting pretty damn beast. so beast to the point where i hate playing your ryu, which basically tells me that you're getting real good. just like i hate playing all of jug's characters, i hate playing jeff's honda, etc etc etc. lol
edit: i don't really hate playing against what i listed but you know what i mean haha.
Guyofkaillera
[09] Warrior
Joe -
remember when I was tellin you about the 4 points of attack? Front overhead, front low, back overhead (cross-up) back low. basically you find a way to make it look like your gonna attack a certain point and
catch them off guard when you attack another. for example: you get a knock down, you jump toward me.
it looks like your gonna go for a meaty air normal (an overhead attack from the front) which most people expect because this is what most players do. But instead of going for that, land and do C.MK or some kinda low attack. you make em guess wrong, you land a hit, make it combo; mind fuck! for players on my level, I seen this done before, so I expect it
myself, thats why I have wake up options that will cover me on situations like that in case it happens
as far as looking for signs, If I'm mixing my oki or whatever mix ups in the fight, and I get HIT out of shit,
thats when I fall back and try to bait stuff. At the same time your conditioning your opponent to do a certain
action after you do w/e it was u did 2 or 3 times to draw that action from him. Not to say, your jumping in at
him just to get hit on purpose, but your listening to the match enough to notice this is happening: Example: I knock you down and I go for a meaty jump in attack. after it connects, u immediately u do a reversal shoryu to get me off of you. This happens another 2 times. If your paying attention to the match, you could use this conditioned habit to your advantage. switch it up, jump in, do the meaty. block the reversal, and then punish.
now this is an established mind game, because the next time this situation arises again during a match,
he'll consider blocking or going for a throw since your standing there. For most players, it could take 1 or even 3 or 4 times for them to realize that your gonna block their shoryu after you jump in. If you land a big combo off of it, they more than likely will get the hint faster and just block. Once you see this happening, they're on defense, and you can continue your tick throw, er w/e mixups and block strings you have under your sleeve
remember when I was tellin you about the 4 points of attack? Front overhead, front low, back overhead (cross-up) back low. basically you find a way to make it look like your gonna attack a certain point and
catch them off guard when you attack another. for example: you get a knock down, you jump toward me.
it looks like your gonna go for a meaty air normal (an overhead attack from the front) which most people expect because this is what most players do. But instead of going for that, land and do C.MK or some kinda low attack. you make em guess wrong, you land a hit, make it combo; mind fuck! for players on my level, I seen this done before, so I expect it
myself, thats why I have wake up options that will cover me on situations like that in case it happens
as far as looking for signs, If I'm mixing my oki or whatever mix ups in the fight, and I get HIT out of shit,
thats when I fall back and try to bait stuff. At the same time your conditioning your opponent to do a certain
action after you do w/e it was u did 2 or 3 times to draw that action from him. Not to say, your jumping in at
him just to get hit on purpose, but your listening to the match enough to notice this is happening: Example: I knock you down and I go for a meaty jump in attack. after it connects, u immediately u do a reversal shoryu to get me off of you. This happens another 2 times. If your paying attention to the match, you could use this conditioned habit to your advantage. switch it up, jump in, do the meaty. block the reversal, and then punish.
now this is an established mind game, because the next time this situation arises again during a match,
he'll consider blocking or going for a throw since your standing there. For most players, it could take 1 or even 3 or 4 times for them to realize that your gonna block their shoryu after you jump in. If you land a big combo off of it, they more than likely will get the hint faster and just block. Once you see this happening, they're on defense, and you can continue your tick throw, er w/e mixups and block strings you have under your sleeve
To be honest, I don't think you can really 'practice' what we've been talking about. It is all about knowledge of the game and being able to understand your opponent...which only comes with time.
When I was at smash club last week playing with all my Melee friends, I realized that even when I was very good at Melee, I never thought about the game. I would go on autopilot, not consider what my opponent could do and when, not space attacks properly, and basically try to rush that shit down before I could let you react to what was going on. I was good at melee, damn good...used to place top 5 in almost every local tournament I went to. The game was so fun to me (and still is) because despite the fact I had a very limited knowledge of the game (never considered that until now), it had those OH MY GOD HOW DID I DO THAT moments that SF lacks to me. Being that good while not understanding mechanics of the game is pretty interesting, in retrospect, but has helped me analyze my street fighter play in much greater detail.
I do autopilot SF4, I am not going to lie. But the autopilot is different...there are a finite number of situations in each character matchup, whereas smash has a nearly limitless number due to game mechanics. I have internalized most everything I have seen in SF4 and because of this very little surprises me. It lacks the awe factor that I have been after for so long. Once you stop becoming surprised by on screen actions, you will become a much better player.
I believe on Sirlin's website I read an article written by him about the psychology of the fighting game. A question he posed was how much of a gaming pro's thinking was unconscious--99% or 100%? It was funny reading that a few months ago because I did not understand how you could be playing a game without thinking about it. Almost everyone he asked (he asked the top8 in ST at evo a few years ago, iirc) said 100% unconscious, meaning what I said above makes sense, despite the fact that it did not make sense a few months ago.
A few weeks ago over winter break, stuff just clicked in my head about SF4...mostly what I had posted before. I did not actively think 'what can I do to get better' as I kept posting and asking if anyone had any new setups or what have you, I just got better. Way better. Those situations Jug Jeff and I described are seemingly slo-mo to me now, and I can consider everything I have at my disposal and sometimes more.
As an aside, I feel like complete garbage and doubt I will make games tomorrow unless something crazy happens.
When I was at smash club last week playing with all my Melee friends, I realized that even when I was very good at Melee, I never thought about the game. I would go on autopilot, not consider what my opponent could do and when, not space attacks properly, and basically try to rush that shit down before I could let you react to what was going on. I was good at melee, damn good...used to place top 5 in almost every local tournament I went to. The game was so fun to me (and still is) because despite the fact I had a very limited knowledge of the game (never considered that until now), it had those OH MY GOD HOW DID I DO THAT moments that SF lacks to me. Being that good while not understanding mechanics of the game is pretty interesting, in retrospect, but has helped me analyze my street fighter play in much greater detail.
I do autopilot SF4, I am not going to lie. But the autopilot is different...there are a finite number of situations in each character matchup, whereas smash has a nearly limitless number due to game mechanics. I have internalized most everything I have seen in SF4 and because of this very little surprises me. It lacks the awe factor that I have been after for so long. Once you stop becoming surprised by on screen actions, you will become a much better player.
I believe on Sirlin's website I read an article written by him about the psychology of the fighting game. A question he posed was how much of a gaming pro's thinking was unconscious--99% or 100%? It was funny reading that a few months ago because I did not understand how you could be playing a game without thinking about it. Almost everyone he asked (he asked the top8 in ST at evo a few years ago, iirc) said 100% unconscious, meaning what I said above makes sense, despite the fact that it did not make sense a few months ago.
A few weeks ago over winter break, stuff just clicked in my head about SF4...mostly what I had posted before. I did not actively think 'what can I do to get better' as I kept posting and asking if anyone had any new setups or what have you, I just got better. Way better. Those situations Jug Jeff and I described are seemingly slo-mo to me now, and I can consider everything I have at my disposal and sometimes more.
As an aside, I feel like complete garbage and doubt I will make games tomorrow unless something crazy happens.
Yes. The same can be said of musical virtuosos. Or the better professional athletes. It's the concept of flow.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)
You may have reached a certain level of skill with the game. But it certainly did not come without effort. And your experience with an entirely different game had to have helped. This is just something that we have to work on ourselves. And asking these questions helps.
There are definitely still things you can learn to better your game. Probably a lot. But you might not be able to see it until you're faced with a higher challenge level and different experiences.
Anyway, practice is extremely important if you're playing a very execution heavy character, such as viper. If you're still having difficulty with what you need to do in order to make a character effective, then there's just no use. You will not be able to maintain control in a competitive fighter. You'll have difficulty playing the player, and not the game.
Edit: Bah, nevermind the comment about practice. You were talking about the idea of practicing awareness of setups and player tendencies. Yeah, that's not so straightforward.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)
You may have reached a certain level of skill with the game. But it certainly did not come without effort. And your experience with an entirely different game had to have helped. This is just something that we have to work on ourselves. And asking these questions helps.
There are definitely still things you can learn to better your game. Probably a lot. But you might not be able to see it until you're faced with a higher challenge level and different experiences.
Anyway, practice is extremely important if you're playing a very execution heavy character, such as viper. If you're still having difficulty with what you need to do in order to make a character effective, then there's just no use. You will not be able to maintain control in a competitive fighter. You'll have difficulty playing the player, and not the game.
Edit: Bah, nevermind the comment about practice. You were talking about the idea of practicing awareness of setups and player tendencies. Yeah, that's not so straightforward.
Celestein
[09] Warrior
I have a dozen+ books on "flow" if anyone wants to read seriously on the subject, as a note.
Guyofkaillera
[09] Warrior
k, if anyone has my ps3 pad, please let me know ASAP. my laptop is set up to recognize MY pad as operable on it, and
really I'm not tryin to go through the headache of setting it up all over again, because I have ps3 pad that ISN'T MINE lol.
if you were at B's arcade last saturday, and you brought a pad with you, make sure the pad you took home with you
doesn't have my name on the back. THANK YOU! ^_^
really I'm not tryin to go through the headache of setting it up all over again, because I have ps3 pad that ISN'T MINE lol.
if you were at B's arcade last saturday, and you brought a pad with you, make sure the pad you took home with you
doesn't have my name on the back. THANK YOU! ^_^
yeah i'm very familiar with the concept just b/c that's how i always played games. CS, wc3, WoW things just came natural to me. however fighters it's been a different mixed results where some things come naturally and some don't. it's not b/c it's my first fighter b/c CS, wc3, WoW were pretty much my first competitive games for those genres. wc3 not so much b/c i played SC but very little... i was in like 7th grade when brood wars came out and i rarely played games at that age.
anyways there have been korean studies done on starcraft players. and basically everything is a natural instinct to these guys. every action they do requires absolutely no thought. their brain waves while playing sc are those of someone just sitting down staring at a TV. something like that, i don't remember the exact details of the article i read. it was a long time ago
thanks jug you broke down things well for me. i'll definitely try to put it into my game.
anyways there have been korean studies done on starcraft players. and basically everything is a natural instinct to these guys. every action they do requires absolutely no thought. their brain waves while playing sc are those of someone just sitting down staring at a TV. something like that, i don't remember the exact details of the article i read. it was a long time ago
thanks jug you broke down things well for me. i'll definitely try to put it into my game.
i'm so bad at SC ]= never really played it much. i'm a disgraceful korean. i am however still pretty good @ wc3 haha we could play that! ^__^
kyo45
[09] Warrior
there was a natgeo documentary about a top SC korean player and they said everything he did in the game was a natural and thoughtless as eating cereal with a spoon. you don't think about it you just do it and i think thats the point we are all trying to reach. lets use this as an example, lets say abel vs ryu match and ryu knocks abel down then does a cross up mk. knowing your options and what you can do is gonna get you out of this situation but for a lot of players( myself included) all the options dont appear in my mind until it is to late and i either get lucky and guess right or take the hit. now, its not to say that i'm not aware of those options which could benefit me in that certain situation its just i have to sit back and think about why it happened and what my options were after said match. what im trying to say is, is that we as players need to get to the point where all the options available to us become like natural instincts and we know exactly what to do in that situation without having to stand back and look at it to figure out a solution. the solution is there we(i) just need to get to the point where we can use it at a moments notice. i guess you can say its kinda related to reaction time but when it comes to something thats kinda expected like a cross up it really shouldn't