Can I kill you now...please?? Tira! :D SCV

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Yeah, all this crying about JS Tira sounds a little premature, much like the talk of Tira being awful before release. That was a pain in the ass. So far I've managed to win a decent amount of time in Jolly, and for now I really do prefer that side. I don't think Jolly was built to be this super amazing hard hitting rushdown powerhouse, that's what Gloomy is for. When I use Jolly, I'm more concerned with pokes here and there, and punishing wiffs and steps. I'll rape face when/if I get to Gloomy. Also I like Jolly's BE 66B A LOT.

As for Gloomy, complaining about self damage is so played out. It really has been toned down considerably since SC4. At this point, I think of the loss of life the same way I do meter management. You just need to know how/when to best use it. You wouldn't recklessly toss meter around, same with self damage.

And finally, not sure if this is known yet, but I discovered today that JS 66K launches on CH, sorta. I love this so much. It's a bitch to land properly, cuz the 2nd kick has to counter, if that makes sense. Best way to test it would be to wall splay a guy then do it. Or set the AI in training to Attack Counter and try to land just the 2nd kick. In SC4 this stunned, but I like this change better.
 
And finally, not sure if this is known yet, but I discovered today that JS 66K launches on CH, sorta. I love this so much. It's a bitch to land properly, cuz the 2nd kick has to counter, if that makes sense. Best way to test it would be to wall splay a guy then do it. Or set the AI in training to Attack Counter and try to land just the 2nd kick. In SC4 this stunned, but I like this change better.
It's known, yes. I think the first hit should have the second hit's stun from SC4, so it would launch on counter with either hit. I don't really like moves like that. Her Jolly 22B stun is rare now 'cause the dumb step buffer.
 
Not to be rude, but to me, it sounds like the people who are complaining about Jolly Side either don't have enough practice with it, or are relatively new to the game/ boards (I would assume).

If you people want to learn Tira, then you have to learn js. They're is no escaping it. You are js most of the time. You can't be so dependent on one side because eventually, you'll fight someone who knows Tira and they will rip you apart. What are you going to do when you can't get into gs (mostly a sc4 problem, not that much in this game)?

Instead of complaining about it, try to be productive with it like TiraLoveSlave. Ask for tips and jump into training mode.
 
Im not new to the game at all, and I'm also not new to Tira at all.
I'm so used to playing Tira that everytime I fight I watch out for the 40% coming and then say "oh I forgot, I'm Nightmare". or even try to change mood at the end of the round.

I think JS is bad, very bad, super very bad.
Of course you can do something with it, I mean if you guess right expecting a step, or if you step successfully and punish, you win and you do damage. But that's for everything and everyone, isn't it ?

The crappy damage isn't helping, out of a good guess, the best you can get is 37, 42, 45 or 57 damage. But then the damage is not all, look at Viola for example. JS could've been good even with that damage output.

I think the problem of JS depends on the character you're fighting. In JS you can't escape the pressure of characters like Pyrrha or Maxi. Maxi is a very good example, The Tira vs Maxi matchup is 7-3 for Maxi in JS and 4-6 for Tira is GS. Make your choice.
 
Against Maxi, you've just got to find a gap and interrupt. Pyrrha, too. I mean, you won't be able to totally pressure like they can. Besides, pretty much every brave edge Tira can do guarantees a change.
 
Not to be rude, but to me, it sounds like the people who are complaining about Jolly Side either don't have enough practice with it, or are relatively new to the game/ boards (I would assume).

If you people want to learn Tira, then you have to learn js. They're is no escaping it. You are js most of the time. You can't be so dependent on one side because eventually, you'll fight someone who knows Tira and they will rip you apart. What are you going to do when you can't get into gs (mostly a sc4 problem, not that much in this game)?

Instead of complaining about it, try to be productive with it like TiraLoveSlave. Ask for tips and jump into training mode.

JS sucks in comparison to GS. I'm pretty sure every Tira player should know this. There really is no debating. Players can love JS all they want, that doesn't change the fact that JS is fundamentally worse, lol. GS can space, poke, pressure, AND on block/whiff punish well. JS can only space, poke, and whiff punish and it doesn't even do those as well as GS does.

Of course people who play Tira MUST learn how to play JS, it's a part of her game. That doesn't mean JS is good or is on equal standing with GS. It isn't. The goal is always to get to GS ASAP.

GS is to Tira as Moroha is to ABA. Her other half is a part of her play so you MUST learn it but that doesn't mean it's on equal standing with her better half. There are some aspects of JS that I do like, but I would never claim it's on equal standing with or better than GS.
 
I've started to have a lot more success in JS once I incorporated 2B and 1B to my poking game. Both are reasonably fast mids (i15 and i16 -- her only moves quicker are her AA and K, which only hit high), give slight advantage on hit, and are safe. 1B is especially good to interrupt the quicker characters like Natsu or Maxi, as it also has good range to keep them out.

Of course, I still try to get out of JS as quickly as possible, unless I'm near that 40% mark anyway, but I definitely needed a "get off me, bro" move against certain characters.
 
I think 'awesome' is a little strong to describe jolly. The moves are slower, do less damage, and don't have any break attacks except for updraft~B. Jolly has tools, especially with meter, but I'd still rather spend most of my games in gloomy
Speaking of break attacks, needlessly taking away her only unique JS break attack was a real dick move, not like it was all that good to begin with anyways :/
 
So I ask how do I space in Jolly since everyone who says Jolly is good just tells me I need to space, but nobody can tell me how to do it.

Answer is switch to Gloomy.

Useless? Maybe not. Worse than most of the the other characters when in Jolly? Probably. So how is that not bad?
 
So I ask how do I space in Jolly since everyone who says Jolly is good just tells me I need to space, but nobody can tell me how to do it.

Answer is switch to Gloomy.

Useless? Maybe not. Worse than most of the the other characters when in Jolly? Probably. So how is that not bad?
He's saying no to you saying JS has shitty frames.
Im not new to the game at all, and I'm also not new to Tira at all.
I'm so used to playing Tira that everytime I fight I watch out for the 40% coming and then say "oh I forgot, I'm Nightmare". or even try to change mood at the end of the round.

I think JS is bad, very bad, super very bad.
Of course you can do something with it, I mean if you guess right expecting a step, or if you step successfully and punish, you win and you do damage. But that's for everything and everyone, isn't it ?

The crappy damage isn't helping, out of a good guess, the best you can get is 37, 42, 45 or 57 damage. But then the damage is not all, look at Viola for example. JS could've been good even with that damage output.

I think the problem of JS depends on the character you're fighting. In JS you can't escape the pressure of characters like Pyrrha or Maxi. Maxi is a very good example, The Tira vs Maxi matchup is 7-3 for Maxi in JS and 4-6 for Tira is GS. Make your choice.
I didn't say that you in particular are new to Tira or the series. I was speaking generally. I was saying that you probably don't have enough practice with JS.

JS is not very, super very bad, you are very, super bad at handling and utilizing JS. If you would use combos into GS then maybe that would help you get out of this "terrible" stance. She has many combos that will change her to GS and attacks that will also. For example,
  • JS 66B BE
  • JS 236K BE
  • JS A+B
I can not tell you how badly wrong you are at how much you think her most damaging combo is. Viola, whom I main, and I say this in my personal opinion, could use a bit of a damage boost.

Pyyrah can't really give you that much pressure if you know her mix-ups. :P You just have to learn what Pyyrah and Maxi do.
JS sucks in comparison to GS. I'm pretty sure every Tira player should know this. There really is no debating. Players can love JS all they want, that doesn't change the fact that JS is fundamentally worse, lol. GS can space, poke, pressure, AND on block/whiff punish well. JS can only space, poke, and whiff punish and it doesn't even do those as well as GS does.

Of course people who play Tira MUST learn how to play JS, it's a part of her game. That doesn't mean JS is good or is on equal standing with GS. It isn't. The goal is always to get to GS ASAP.

GS is to Tira as Moroha is to ABA. Her other half is a part of her play so you MUST learn it but that doesn't mean it's on equal standing with her better half. There are some aspects of JS that I do like, but I would never claim it's on equal standing with or better than GS.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand you missed the whole point. Did I ever compare JS to GS? All of your paragraphs are comparing them, when we've not talked about GS a lot.
I've started to have a lot more success in JS once I incorporated 2B and 1B to my poking game. Both are reasonably fast mids (i15 and i16 -- her only moves quicker are her AA and K, which only hit high), give slight advantage on hit, and are safe. 1B is especially good to interrupt the quicker characters like Natsu or Maxi, as it also has good range to keep them out.

Of course, I still try to get out of JS as quickly as possible, unless I'm near that 40% mark anyway, but I definitely needed a "get off me, bro" move against certain characters.
Good for you. :) See, this is what I'm talking about. Instead of complaining, try to get better.

Oh God, I probably seem like the huuuuugest asshole. Sorry, I'm not one. I'm pretty nice and try to avoid conflict, but if you think SC5 JS is bad, then never play SC4 Tira.
no one is saying JS is better than GS, however it kinda makes me laugh when people say it's useless... compared to SC4 it's much better.
Me too. XD

O.o Huge wall of text!
 
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