ChaosK
[13] Hero
I think no one punishes pyrrha well.
Cervantes Matchup: Discussion
- Thread starter BatousaiNori
- Start date
- Moderator
- #302
Dr. Hates
Jerk.
In conventional terms, he doesn't punish her that spectacularly. In terms of things you see with some frequency, 1K (block) gives you 2A or WS K, 236B gives aB (technically you can 66B, but the timing's tight and unless you block the stab at point blank range, you don't get the AT). The one upshot here is that Cerv can generally get aB off of anything he JGs.
Also, it's worth noting that he can't punish her 3B unless it's super point blank range (single B or 6A, both inconsistent even then, and therefore risky...whiffed punish = stab) or if her back is to a wall (aB, rare situation since you generally want to be moving the hell away from her, which makes cornering her tricky).
Maxou
[11] Champion
Speaking of which bA punishes 236B rather easily for 50ish dmg. It's one of the few things Cervantes can actually punish in this MU since Pyrrha is a very safe character.
And lol @ fuzzy guard in SC5. This is not VF, but the same technique to kill fuzzy in VF works in SC.
Twiz
Волк Одиночка
http://8wayrun.com/threads/cervantes-matchup-listing.15435/#post-585932
iGDR punishes stab too. But since SCV doesn't allow you to buffer slide inputs or just frames the best most consistent options to use are 66B and aB.
Maxou
[11] Champion
WTF. What are you talking about? You CAN punish with slide imputs and consistently...
See AlphaPat for reference for exemple.
Generally speaking too, it's not the slide imput which is the problem it's the 214~3 with Alpha (which isn't done fast enough). I guess it's the same for iGDR punishment.
But a single slide imput punishment? That's REALLY easy.
See AlphaPat for reference for exemple.
Generally speaking too, it's not the slide imput which is the problem it's the 214~3 with Alpha (which isn't done fast enough). I guess it's the same for iGDR punishment.
But a single slide imput punishment? That's REALLY easy.
Twiz
Волк Одиночка
See the thing with aPat is that having to buffer 2143 as well as a:B tends to hide the fact that the game doesn't allow you to buffer slide inputs. But this is the reason why when you try to twister punish things too fast you end up getting 2143 B. The game allows you to buffer the directions but not the Twister itself. So when it comes to 1 frame slide input punishes they tend be unreliable for the simple fact of block stun (see punishing Maxi 66B+K with aB for a very strong example of this).
As for the iGDR it's just a simple fact of if you do it to early you CAN'T get the just frame and instead you get DC B and eat a free punish.
docvizzo
[14] Master
I dont think i have ever disagreed so much on anything. You are basically putting this into a Hilde-Rock relatio here.
If your opponents can react to a i17 low, i20 mid mixup then you are right this is a horrible matchup. Really need a vid please.
From what i have seen in the match versus Xeph you let him close the distance all the time, you let him unpunished for random ducks all over the place, you freeze once he is on close range etc. I have rarely seen a video where somebody was able to duck so often without beeing punished. For me this looks like classic outplayed, not like Xeph beeing able to block a i17 low and then stand up to block the i20 mid within 3 Frames. As is said delay a move, cancel a move etc. If you have a better vid please let me know since the one (as you also said) was not really well played.
This is not an attack or anything, but if you always play like this i can see why you think this is 7.5:2.5. So many AAs from Xeph and not one single 22K, which would Auto GI it, give you a KND and is safe.
Maxou
[11] Champion
Who cares if you can't buffer a slide imput? It's just really easy to do consistently.
Twiz
Волк Одиночка
Not when it is a one frame link. Even the slightest delay means you can be punished, or simply doing it 1f to early can mean you get nothing more than A or B. On a move with next to non existant block stun then yes it is easy. Plus 66B attack throw does 50 damage anyway.
Maxou
[11] Champion
So if you can't do 66B AT, you do bA. Easy enough.
Although I could always get the AT in training mode.
That's easy to do consistently even if "if you're late 1f you get punished".
ShenChan
[11] Champion
Perfect frame punish is usually impractical but not impossible of course. For example, Patroklos can CE 2K on block, however under pressure, as long as you block anything that looks like a 2K (for eg. Cervy's 2A), you are still gonna do a CE. If you intend to check what you block, you probably miss the CE already.
If you're actively looking for things to punish on block, it means you're giving your opponent space to do what he wants. Regarding blocked 236B, bA is good enough, hell even aB is good enough if only the 2nd hit hits. If you can iGDR punish it consistently then go ahead, no one's gonna stop you. Just be prepared to face the consequences if you fail your punish.
That aside, we are getting out of topic.
This matchup is just in slight favor of Pyrrha IMO. 5.5-4.5.
1) She has more "turns" to attack Cervy- Face it, i'm not going berserk on Pyrrha unless I'm really sure of it.
2) Once both characters get life advantage respectively, it will be tough for either of them to catch up with each other. (Pyrrha's speed vs Cervy's zoning) Cervy doesn't have good rush down compared to Pyrrha (No good lows compared to Pyrrha for eg.). It doesn't mean he can't rush down, just not as good.
3) Movement punishment - Cervy wins this handsdown, 4B BE to kill backdash, 1A, B to kill step are some examples.
4) Women and children always fetch the highest price. I think this trait makes this matchup even. :)
If you're actively looking for things to punish on block, it means you're giving your opponent space to do what he wants. Regarding blocked 236B, bA is good enough, hell even aB is good enough if only the 2nd hit hits. If you can iGDR punish it consistently then go ahead, no one's gonna stop you. Just be prepared to face the consequences if you fail your punish.
That aside, we are getting out of topic.
This matchup is just in slight favor of Pyrrha IMO. 5.5-4.5.
1) She has more "turns" to attack Cervy- Face it, i'm not going berserk on Pyrrha unless I'm really sure of it.
2) Once both characters get life advantage respectively, it will be tough for either of them to catch up with each other. (Pyrrha's speed vs Cervy's zoning) Cervy doesn't have good rush down compared to Pyrrha (No good lows compared to Pyrrha for eg.). It doesn't mean he can't rush down, just not as good.
3) Movement punishment - Cervy wins this handsdown, 4B BE to kill backdash, 1A, B to kill step are some examples.
4) Women and children always fetch the highest price. I think this trait makes this matchup even. :)
Age_of_Truth
[12] Conqueror
Lol. The point was extremely simple: one side said "bA is good because X Y Z" and the other said "no it's a useless gimmick because ( )".
I couldn't care less if you think I'm "ass" - seeing as how we'll never play each other then at least you got one thing right, it really doesn't matter.
Don't worry Mods, no more posts from me here.
Silent Joel
[12] Conqueror
What do you think of the Cervy-Omega MU?
Stfu. You and bA are asses. Deal with it.
ShenChan
[11] Champion
Cervy vs Omega is quite straight forward. With the glitched step 42_48 G, you can step in mid range without worrying about eating 236A and still step 66B at the same time. Her 1K puts you in FC and her at -1, you have WS K which comes out at amazing speed then, not to mention 2A. Generally speaking, Cervy's 2A is godlike. Looking across the cast, you dun have a character's 2A which comes out at 14 frames and have that kind of range, so appreciate it. It's a zoning tool in mid range.
DNS B is tricky to deal with, because even if you step it, 3B will whiff because she moves forward, unless you step to her right (Usually you step to her left). It's a free CE for Cervy on block so that's good. The bad thing about this matchup is the guard damage she can do to Cervy. I find myself doing well against her overall, except that the guard meter isn't doing that well most of the time (Think Omega's 4B mixups, DNS K, 66B - All of these are good starters for mixup and does good guard damage) where as against Pyrrha, I do not have to worry so much about guard meter.
I feel she's not as difficult to deal with as Pyrrha. A fairly balanced match up. 5-5 IMO.
DNS B is tricky to deal with, because even if you step it, 3B will whiff because she moves forward, unless you step to her right (Usually you step to her left). It's a free CE for Cervy on block so that's good. The bad thing about this matchup is the guard damage she can do to Cervy. I find myself doing well against her overall, except that the guard meter isn't doing that well most of the time (Think Omega's 4B mixups, DNS K, 66B - All of these are good starters for mixup and does good guard damage) where as against Pyrrha, I do not have to worry so much about guard meter.
I feel she's not as difficult to deal with as Pyrrha. A fairly balanced match up. 5-5 IMO.
TerminatorCortez
[10] Knight
Hey could have some info on the siegfried-cervantes Matchup. Sandman has a really good siegfried, mixing me up with 1ks and grabs. He can catch my backstep with 3B. Never really looked in the Siegfried Matchup any tips?
ShenChan
[11] Champion
Every blocked 3B to stance, you get a free aB unless you're blocking it at tip or you trade with his SCH K. If you wanna zone him, stay out of agA range. Backdash lesser against sieg, side step to his right instead. Ring awareness is important.
docvizzo
[14] Master
Can we maybe discuss Cervantes vs Patroklos a bit? This matchup gives me such a hard time , i can not play a spacing game against this char due to 66B etc, blocked 1AB is easy mode 66B damage which gives him plenty of meter etc...
My usual spacing, aB pressure, 1AB game somehow doesnt work against this character and i dont know how to switch my game. His close range game is so good and i can not manage to get him out of my face. Any tips?
My usual spacing, aB pressure, 1AB game somehow doesnt work against this character and i dont know how to switch my game. His close range game is so good and i can not manage to get him out of my face. Any tips?
Rufus
[09] Warrior
It is so hard to play Pat against Cerv.
Pirates backdash is too good in this MU (spam)
aB on mid-tip range - unpunishable (spam)
66B unpunishable too =(
9B+K jump over 1K and 1B ><
No pressure after 1K and 1B because of aB.
I prefer to switch to Natsu when i need to play against Cerv :3
Pirates backdash is too good in this MU (spam)
aB on mid-tip range - unpunishable (spam)
66B unpunishable too =(
9B+K jump over 1K and 1B ><
No pressure after 1K and 1B because of aB.
I prefer to switch to Natsu when i need to play against Cerv :3
Twiz
Волк Одиночка
His step catchers are either extremely short range or punishable so this is one of those MUs where you can utilize 4~2_8G extremely well to help out with spacing. Back stepping for whiff punishment is till a very viable option. Working on the guard is also a very good idea. 3B is safe if spaced out correctly until Pat has a CE on deck, which will whiff at absolute tip range if you want to try to bait it out. And utilization of attacks such as 6A+B, 2A+B, and 44K will have his guard blinking in no time to make them scared to block.
One of the best things of this MU though is that any random BE's he does lead to you getting a free back grab. So if your back is to a wall and he does JS B BE, 1B BE, or 66A BE, you can back grab wall splat him for 200 damage.
2A or any tech crouching move that crouches decently fast will beat out aB. The vertical part is i17. Also AA after 1K should beat out aB.
Silent Joel
[12] Conqueror
I dunno about back dash because of 66B, and you can't whiff punish 66B with 3b unless you do it straight away. Also I'm think not using 1a,b as a low and only if you think they're gonna step. He gets 66B off it which makes so much riskier. I think Pat-Cervy is basically a coin toss, who ever guesses right the most wins, because they can punish each other badly.