- Moderator
- #1
Ring
Lay still now
I think it's a good idea to start a thread dedicated to Coiled State (CL) only.
Before I start, I would like to say, that like probably most of you, I didn't like this stance at first - it seemed crappy. Things changed. Coil is probably most important stance of all, because it links SW/WP/CL and SE together. And I think it requires more work than SW or WP, but I can assure all of you that it's worth.
The main advantages of CL state are:
- The movement. Ivy in CL has the best step (back step, side step, forward step) of all three stances. Everytime when I change WP to CL I feel like I'm flying.
- You can enter SE from Coil simply by pressing B+K during last recovery frames of every move.
- Diversity of moves. Coiled State is a mix of SW/WP moves. So you can find here long ranged moves as well as quick short ranged attacks good for interrupting.
- Insane mixup potential, thanks to the fact that you can change to SW/WP/SE after every move.
- Both command throws - CS/SS after every move and during blockstun!
- The best punishing options. You can change the stances during blockstun in order to punish your opponent with every move from SW/CL/WP. However, this needs a further research due to the fact that it was discovered recently.
- Great Soul Gauge damage.
The main disadvantages:
- Lack of good lows. This is, without a doubt, the main weakness of CL.
Ok, so here we go:
CL 214B_{B} - hail to the king! We all know how this move works so I won't bother describing it. Let's just say that it evades verticals ;) If used correctly - it's a lethal weapon. If used incorrectly - it's lethal for the user. Frankly speaking - this move will save your ass when you know how to use it. The best moment for CL 214B usage is probably when your opponent is at advantage. Try not to throw it when you are at advantage - an advanced player will not attack you when you're at adv, and if he blocks it, you are in serious trouble. Also, this move works like this: the closer you are to your opponent, the better. I've managed to avoid Lizardman's 66A with CL 214B several times, which normally can't be stepped (or it's insanely difficult)
Just to mention : the differences between CL 214B and CL 214 are: the first one has slightly less disadvantage on block but it's negative on hit, the second one has a bigger disadv. on block but isn't negative on hit, so things like SE K, SE BBB/5hit, SE 66K, A236A become a frametrap. The conclusion: don't use 214B because you get nothing. There's also a chance of avoiding the punishment after you enter SE (with TC moves, backstep and side step) I'd also like to warn Ivy players not to spam this move against Sophitia. Every blocked CL 214B_ guarantees her (mostly) a half-life combo 236236B, 236236B:4 -_-
CL A+B,A+K - definitely one of Ivy's best tools for damage/RO/mixups. Catches sidesteppers, has a high damage potential on normal hit, can RO from a half screen range (thanks to WP 1B+K->3B+K). Single CL A+B can lead to deadly mixups. But no matter how many advantages this move has, it also has one big weakness: whiffing. The last hit of CL A+B,A_A+K tends to whiff against many characters leaving Ivy open for an attack. Use this move wisely!
CL B - single B is pretty good for its really big range.
CL 1B,B+K - THIS is how the real CL BB should look. Nicely ranged NC with a good advantage on hit (+3). Do not fear about it being punished - it is safe on block, and (on block) the second hit cannot be stepped or even GI-ed. In stun combos, the 2nd hit knocks the opponent making SW 214K guaranteed. Please note that the B+K part normally switches us to Sword State, but you can avoid that simply by holding A+B in CL (it works with other moves as well) Only 16 blocked to CF. Note: don't use CL 1B alone, because it's unsafe and negative on hit.
CL 6B - Safe mid, mostly for SG damage (10 to CF) It has a nice range and TCs (but pretty late) It is also pretty linear so be careful.
CL 3A - This move seems underrated. It catches sidestep, is safe against 95% of characters (-10), gives advantage on hit and stuns on CH. I guess the only "bad" thing about it is that 3A forces us to switch to SW most of the time, because on CH there is no appropriate follow up in CL and WP.
CL A,A+K - only for combos. When used on stunned opponent it becomes an AT throw and does more damage.
CL 4B - the new "Ivy lick". For airborne opponents mostly. Normally it's a high-mid combination, only -2 on block and +1 on hit.
CL 33A - good and old SC3 WP 66A. Great for sidestep catching. On CH gives a shakeable stun. It's safe against many characters due to its range. The bad thing is that this move has a slow start-up frames.
CL 33B (mash) - This mid attack is only -3 on block (meaning it's useful for frametraps), literally rapes SG, and on hit guarantees 9gB (strict timing) for 50 dmg or 2K for 41dmg. Be sure to spam it.
CL 22_88B - this GC move is usefull for setups. It leaves Ivy in FC and has a slight disadvantage on block (-2) so it's a great setup for WS A+B, CL 214B_, or CS/SS (IF you teach your opponent not to attack after blocking it) It also does a side step and can avoid verticals.
CL WS AA - Even though I hate this move, I think I should mention that it becomes a natural combo at tip range, and guarantees SW 3B+K afterwards for almost 70dmg. It still is very risky, because it is mid-mid-high. Just to mention: WS A alone is punishable on block and negative on hit (-6!) sucks and shouldn't be used.
CL 3B - great launcher, useful for whiff punishing. Launches higher on CH making CL 4B to connect on bigger characters.
CL 1A - the main advantage of this move is definitely the fact, that on CH or a succesful aGI it leads to some really massive damage (80+) and it aGIs all low attacks. Where's the catch then? CL 1A is really slow, punishable on block, negative on NH, TCs very late and can fail with aGI. However, sometimes it's worth to try this, if we can read opponent well ...
CL 6A,K or CL 6A, A+K - CL 6A,K is a high,high combination where the 2nd hit stuns on NH or gives advantage on block (+1). CL 6,A+K on the other hand is high-mid-mid combination (the 2nd and 3rd hit are NC) How to use this? Your opponent will have to choose between ducking the K or just blocking. If he does the right choice, he can punish you, if not, you get either +1 on block or 40dmg with an advantage (+3) and opponent turned backwards.
CL 6A+B - veeery far reaching mid attack that TC's almost instantly, and on hit gives extreme advantage (+7 or +9). On hit, it becomes an AT throw. However there are a few variations of it:
- at close range it leaves opponent backturned and gives you +7
- at far range it draws your opponent near and gives you +9
- if you hit your opponent's back with CL 6A+B it becomes BT throw for 90dmg
- sometimes if you hit opponent from the side, it becomes side throw for approx 75dmg, however I'm still not sure how exactly does that work. I happens mostly when you hit your opponent while he is making a move.
CL 6A+B is very linear and unsafe, but only at very close range due to its pushback on block.
OK that's all for now. There are several moves left, I hope other players will write something about them too. Btw sorry for mistakes. It took me a while to write this and it wasn't easy considering that it's not my native language. I hope my effort will be appreciated lolz.
Before I start, I would like to say, that like probably most of you, I didn't like this stance at first - it seemed crappy. Things changed. Coil is probably most important stance of all, because it links SW/WP/CL and SE together. And I think it requires more work than SW or WP, but I can assure all of you that it's worth.
The main advantages of CL state are:
- The movement. Ivy in CL has the best step (back step, side step, forward step) of all three stances. Everytime when I change WP to CL I feel like I'm flying.
- You can enter SE from Coil simply by pressing B+K during last recovery frames of every move.
- Diversity of moves. Coiled State is a mix of SW/WP moves. So you can find here long ranged moves as well as quick short ranged attacks good for interrupting.
- Insane mixup potential, thanks to the fact that you can change to SW/WP/SE after every move.
- Both command throws - CS/SS after every move and during blockstun!
- The best punishing options. You can change the stances during blockstun in order to punish your opponent with every move from SW/CL/WP. However, this needs a further research due to the fact that it was discovered recently.
- Great Soul Gauge damage.
The main disadvantages:
- Lack of good lows. This is, without a doubt, the main weakness of CL.
Ok, so here we go:
CL 214B_{B} - hail to the king! We all know how this move works so I won't bother describing it. Let's just say that it evades verticals ;) If used correctly - it's a lethal weapon. If used incorrectly - it's lethal for the user. Frankly speaking - this move will save your ass when you know how to use it. The best moment for CL 214B usage is probably when your opponent is at advantage. Try not to throw it when you are at advantage - an advanced player will not attack you when you're at adv, and if he blocks it, you are in serious trouble. Also, this move works like this: the closer you are to your opponent, the better. I've managed to avoid Lizardman's 66A with CL 214B several times, which normally can't be stepped (or it's insanely difficult)
Just to mention : the differences between CL 214B and CL 214 are: the first one has slightly less disadvantage on block but it's negative on hit, the second one has a bigger disadv. on block but isn't negative on hit, so things like SE K, SE BBB/5hit, SE 66K, A236A become a frametrap. The conclusion: don't use 214B because you get nothing. There's also a chance of avoiding the punishment after you enter SE (with TC moves, backstep and side step) I'd also like to warn Ivy players not to spam this move against Sophitia. Every blocked CL 214B_ guarantees her (mostly) a half-life combo 236236B, 236236B:4 -_-
CL A+B,A+K - definitely one of Ivy's best tools for damage/RO/mixups. Catches sidesteppers, has a high damage potential on normal hit, can RO from a half screen range (thanks to WP 1B+K->3B+K). Single CL A+B can lead to deadly mixups. But no matter how many advantages this move has, it also has one big weakness: whiffing. The last hit of CL A+B,A_A+K tends to whiff against many characters leaving Ivy open for an attack. Use this move wisely!
CL B - single B is pretty good for its really big range.
CL 1B,B+K - THIS is how the real CL BB should look. Nicely ranged NC with a good advantage on hit (+3). Do not fear about it being punished - it is safe on block, and (on block) the second hit cannot be stepped or even GI-ed. In stun combos, the 2nd hit knocks the opponent making SW 214K guaranteed. Please note that the B+K part normally switches us to Sword State, but you can avoid that simply by holding A+B in CL (it works with other moves as well) Only 16 blocked to CF. Note: don't use CL 1B alone, because it's unsafe and negative on hit.
CL 6B - Safe mid, mostly for SG damage (10 to CF) It has a nice range and TCs (but pretty late) It is also pretty linear so be careful.
CL 3A - This move seems underrated. It catches sidestep, is safe against 95% of characters (-10), gives advantage on hit and stuns on CH. I guess the only "bad" thing about it is that 3A forces us to switch to SW most of the time, because on CH there is no appropriate follow up in CL and WP.
CL A,A+K - only for combos. When used on stunned opponent it becomes an AT throw and does more damage.
CL 4B - the new "Ivy lick". For airborne opponents mostly. Normally it's a high-mid combination, only -2 on block and +1 on hit.
CL 33A - good and old SC3 WP 66A. Great for sidestep catching. On CH gives a shakeable stun. It's safe against many characters due to its range. The bad thing is that this move has a slow start-up frames.
CL 33B (mash) - This mid attack is only -3 on block (meaning it's useful for frametraps), literally rapes SG, and on hit guarantees 9gB (strict timing) for 50 dmg or 2K for 41dmg. Be sure to spam it.
CL 22_88B - this GC move is usefull for setups. It leaves Ivy in FC and has a slight disadvantage on block (-2) so it's a great setup for WS A+B, CL 214B_, or CS/SS (IF you teach your opponent not to attack after blocking it) It also does a side step and can avoid verticals.
CL WS AA - Even though I hate this move, I think I should mention that it becomes a natural combo at tip range, and guarantees SW 3B+K afterwards for almost 70dmg. It still is very risky, because it is mid-mid-high. Just to mention: WS A alone is punishable on block and negative on hit (-6!) sucks and shouldn't be used.
CL 3B - great launcher, useful for whiff punishing. Launches higher on CH making CL 4B to connect on bigger characters.
CL 1A - the main advantage of this move is definitely the fact, that on CH or a succesful aGI it leads to some really massive damage (80+) and it aGIs all low attacks. Where's the catch then? CL 1A is really slow, punishable on block, negative on NH, TCs very late and can fail with aGI. However, sometimes it's worth to try this, if we can read opponent well ...
CL 6A,K or CL 6A, A+K - CL 6A,K is a high,high combination where the 2nd hit stuns on NH or gives advantage on block (+1). CL 6,A+K on the other hand is high-mid-mid combination (the 2nd and 3rd hit are NC) How to use this? Your opponent will have to choose between ducking the K or just blocking. If he does the right choice, he can punish you, if not, you get either +1 on block or 40dmg with an advantage (+3) and opponent turned backwards.
CL 6A+B - veeery far reaching mid attack that TC's almost instantly, and on hit gives extreme advantage (+7 or +9). On hit, it becomes an AT throw. However there are a few variations of it:
- at close range it leaves opponent backturned and gives you +7
- at far range it draws your opponent near and gives you +9
- if you hit your opponent's back with CL 6A+B it becomes BT throw for 90dmg
- sometimes if you hit opponent from the side, it becomes side throw for approx 75dmg, however I'm still not sure how exactly does that work. I happens mostly when you hit your opponent while he is making a move.
CL 6A+B is very linear and unsafe, but only at very close range due to its pushback on block.
OK that's all for now. There are several moves left, I hope other players will write something about them too. Btw sorry for mistakes. It took me a while to write this and it wasn't easy considering that it's not my native language. I hope my effort will be appreciated lolz.
