Controlling Step

Real_Bojack

Real_Bojack

[10] Knight
Raph players will need a thread specifically devoted to this. Most characters don't, Raph does.

~Will post more soon when I get the game. Just be glad that he has 22A (old SC2 4A) and be happy for now.

*Mind you this thread needs to go deeper than "A's beat step Bojack! Durrrrrr!"*
 
If the frame data is correct then 22A is pretty unsafe up close. However he has a fast 2A and same old 22K which still gives decent damage on CH.
 
Hudathan said:
If the frame data is correct then 22A is pretty unsafe up close. However he has a fast 2A and same old 22K which still gives decent damage on CH.
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Just looked over the frame data ...... fuck that is horridly unsafe up close. -16? Shit, that's giving away a lot of health. Hopefully it is safe @ range.
 
It's more or less safe at range but you can eat a number of nasty TC's in this game for your troubles. I could see it being justified if we got some consistent damage out of it but that's not the case neither. Namco really went in two different directions with his moves in this game. Raph is heading further and further away from a poking/control game towards a baiting/aggressive game.
 
Hudathan said:
It's more or less safe at range but you can eat a number of nasty TC's in this game for your troubles. I could see it being justified if we got some consistent damage out of it but that's not the case neither. Namco really went in two different directions with his moves in this game. Raph is heading further and further away from a poking/control game towards a baiting/aggressive game.
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Nasty TC's have always been a part of Calibur.

Maybe controlling step won't be as big a deal, just at the outset it looks like Raph will eventually have a difficult time once people have found suitable holes in his baiting/aggressive game and get used to his parlor tricks. A lot of his tricks still seem highly steppable which means we need to prepare anti-step measures anyways since he still seems to lack simple, solid mixups or combos to rely on.
 
He just needs to 'catch' people. At least they gave him some nice counter-hitting tools and a decent 22B. He also gets some decent frames here and there which is better than what he's had for a long time now.
 
AA and 3A seem to be pretty reliable at their respective ranges.

2_8B+K seems to do wonders against 8wrers who are at disadvantage at mid range. Needs to be closer to catch quickstep, but that would be anticipation and not reaction.
 
3A seems to be easy to step to Raph's right, QS that easy like woah. 6A is safe and tracks pretty well.
 
The only advantages that 22A has over AA is that it seems to catch a much fatter angle than AA's first 1 swing (and it gives like double digits of frame advantage on CH).

The weaknesses are that its' slower, gives less damage on NH and CH, requires you to QS (adding to the frames) and is unsafe (11 frames less safe ..ouch). I'd expect for all these negative qualities that project soul would have intended it to have an awesome followup on CH to justify this (sort of like 1K). If project soul took away the guaranteed CE (and hypothetical 6BBB) followup, then they forgot to add back additional damage and safety. Right now, on paper it seems like one of Raph's weakest move.
 
22a CH definitely does NOT guarantee super. I am sad. Don't forget 4k in your list, very little risk involved.

6A doesn't track to BOTH sides, does it? Just his left?
 
There is no controlling step. It just shuts Raph down once again. We can try to make some things work with a high risk vs. reward ratio, but in the end he's designed poorly yet again. Not being a whiner here; just trying to be real. I've spent a lot of time in training and in matches, and while you'll net that anti-step move occasionally; it doesn't amount to enough to matter.
 
His anti-step is not a threat (except 22K on CH) which obviously is kinda sad.

22A.. o please give somethign decent for it in the patch! I don't want to resort to AA spam.
 
4K is the only anti step move that feels good right now. I don't even mind that he needs to use a bunch of situational highs in order to control step, they just need to give some rewards for how unsafe they are i.e. 22A. There are characters with safer horizontal MIDS that combos into stuff on both natural and counter hit.
 
His step control really isn't that bad this time around. 33A and 22A are great when you space them, they can't really retaliate without taking a risk. Though the damage is poor, Raph can control space.

But that's all he can really do... his frames really took a undeserved hit :/

And all some characters have to do is hit him 3-4 times and he's dead. You basically can't make any mistakes. Everything about Raph seems mediocre right now.
 
How can he "control" step? He can almost scrape by "minimizing the bleeding" against step, but certainly can't "control" it by any sense of the word. Perhaps I'm doing it wrong, I suppose - how are you controlling the step game?
 
piggy said:
How can he "control" step? He can almost scrape by "minimizing the bleeding" against step, but certainly can't "control" it by any sense of the word. Perhaps I'm doing it wrong, I suppose - how are you controlling the step game?
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You don't. Maybe people will get annoyed at taking 10 damage at a time and just hit him for it.
 
This was a question aimed directly at Signia and Fendante who agreed that Raph controls step - I want to know what they are doing, so I can do it. Cause as cute as 4K is, it just isn't really useful.
 
I've just been using a lot of 22A and 4K hoping that once I safely get into my SE options that I use the good frames on hit/block to do some stuff before it go back to step 1. I like 22K but it's a little too slow for me.
 
I don't see this as Raph being designed poorly. He has a clear strength, and a clear weakness, and it's up to the player to account for both. As far as controlling step, don't forget that you can do this without moves as well. Use your movement, follow them and back them closer to edges and walls. If they step right, and you step with them, now what do they do? If they want to attack you, they're not stepping anymore. If they want to back up, that's in Raph's favor anyway. If they want to keep stepping after that, you can go for one of your horizontals now with even more confidence, or just continue to put them in a corner.

You're not going to be able to play Raph as just "do move A here" like some simpler characters. You've got to go in knowing his weaknesses, and having a variety of ways to work around it.
 
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