Damn E.I.N.

Maxi-mum

[09] Warrior
I swear to God, that wolf needs to be put down. Anyone else know how to deal with ZWEI and his damn partner?

I've played Snort and this new guy (maybe Snort) and both of them are excellent ZWEI players.
 

taffertier

[10] Knight
You have Maxi. Just WR B+K and 6A+B all day, mostly WR B+K. Even on JG the punish is minimal comparatively. And know when you arent going to get CH for it on 1B hold
 

Maxi-mum

[09] Warrior
Wrong. EIN catches me 90% of the time. When he doesn't catch me, I can get under him. I can't rely on inconsistent behaviors. Check out my stream replay. This guy beat me 10 straight because EIN and ZWEI catch me from odd ball locations.
 

taffertier

[10] Knight
You did WR B+K at times where the tech crouch frames couldnt get under EIN. Seems like it'd mostly be a matter of timing it properly or just crouching normally when you know it's too late to get under him. There's also other tech crouch options Maxi has to get under 1B hold like 66B+K (I think that's the move) which is slightly faster and can be done from 8wayrun without having to account for the extra frames you buffer in for on-the-spot WR B+Ks
 
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Maxi-mum

[09] Warrior
You did WR B+K at times where the tech crouch frames couldnt get under EIN. Seems like it'd mostly be a matter of timing it properly or just crouching normally when you know it's too late to get under him. There's also other tech crouch options Maxi has to get under 1B hold like 66B+K (I think that's the move) which is slightly faster and can be done from 8wayrun without having to account for the extra frames you buffer in for on-the-spot WR B+Ks
I'll give that a shot. I'll try some training practice and get the timing down. What's unsafe of his? Seems like the majority of attacks are safe.
 

taffertier

[10] Knight
I'll give that a shot. I'll try some training practice and get the timing down. What's unsafe of his? Seems like the majority of attacks are safe.
General rule of thumb is any time you block EIN, ZWEI will be at frame advantage. This also goes for A hold and B hold, which is why you kept getting beat out every time you tried to attack while cornered. Even JGing EIN wont help much as you'll be either be very slightly positive, neutral, or even negative still depending on how long he was held. ZWEI himself however is pretty unsafe, moves like A+B, 1B hold, and 4A hold are all unsafe on block. Which is why you see him fishing for hits with EIN and backing up all day, either to set up the wolf or get a whiff punish in order to go into his pressure game.
 

Wyde

[11] Champion
It mostly comes down to learning how to deal with certain important moves.
  • The second hit of 1(B)can be ducked if the first hit is blocked or whiffed. It is usually + on block. If you're in range, 6A+B should interupt everything.
  • The kick of 1(B)K usually catches rolls in all directions, so be wary of that fact if you're hit by 1(B) while grounded.
  • The second hit of 4(A) can be stepped immediately if the first hit is blocked or whiffed. It is usually + on block.
  • The second hits of 3AA and 66BA can be ducked.
  • 66A+B is safe even on JG, but the second hit can be stepped fairly easily if it is delayed.
  • 4B BE has a very long delay window, can be comboed from A throw and rings out, so respect it.
  • If he is charging E.I.N. with either 4(A) or B+K BE, he has a mixup of either interrupting you with pokes that can combo into E.I.N., or making E.I.N. unblockable via a 214B guard crush.
  • A+B is -16 on block, but has large pushback. Test what ranges you can punish with CE or 6A+B BE.
  • All of his main lows that are not 2K (1A, 44A and 11K) are all slow and unsafe (though can be more effective if incorporating E.I.N.) so he has to open you up through throws, guard damage and E.I.N in a neutral situation. WR B+K is probably a strong option to deal with attempts at approach since he only has 1(B) to deal with lateral movement at range.
  • ZWEI probably has more trouble than most interrupting Maxi's stance gimmicks outside of knowing when to duck, since his interruption options are weak.
  • 2A+B and LI A are probably the only attacks that Z.W.E.I. can punish on block for big damage, so experiment with what you can get away with.

Knowledge is power when it comes to Z.W.E.I. Knowing what he's capable of means he gets away with much less random damage and has to work much harder at mindgames and maintaining momentum, kinda like Maxi actually. Maxi has better basics, though. 6A+B, 2A and 1K are your friends.
 

Marginal

Chikara Sashimi
One other thing, make Zwei chase you. He doesn't have a whole lot if you don't let him poke at you.
 

Maxi-mum

[09] Warrior
I saw that thread already. I just wanted to know the opinions of others. I also saw IRM come back from 0-4.