Dampierre Punishment "Now's My Chance!" (W.I.P)

AZYG4LYFE

AZYG4LYFE

Play FFRK
EDIT: I know it's not much atm but when I have time I'll keep updating and correcting (just incase we do have another patch)

Just to get some motivation going, it would be great if we could compile a list of block punishment vs all other characters for Dampierre. I'll adjust and polish up the first post (will take away the bullet points if people aren't happy with the formatting, though imo I find it easy to understand and read from)

Most of us should be familiar with the terms used, but for learners and newcomers sake I'll add:

Keys:
BE- Brave Edge (A+B+K)
B!E!- Bravo! Encore!- Self Explanitory


Standing and Full Crouch Punishment *will update and correct progressively*


i13

AA
  • High, High
  • Damage: 10,14
2A
  • Special Low
  • Damage:12
K
  • High
  • Damage: 14
i14
6A
  • High
  • Damage: 18
6B
  • High
  • Damage :16 ( 7 extra damage for BE version, fastest UB only if it connects)
FC B
  • Mid
  • Damage: 18
FC K
  • Low
  • Damage: 16
BB
  • Mid, mid
  • Damage: 16, 16
i15
2B
  • Mid
  • Damage: 18
2K
  • Low
  • Damage: 16
WR B
  • Mid
  • Damage: 14
i16
6K
  • Mid
  • Damage: 12
i17
3AAA....(close wall use advised)
  • mid, mid...
  • Damage: 10,10,10....
4A
  • High
  • Damage: 28
4K
  • High
  • Damage: 18
i18
3K- Stun Combo Starter
  • Mid
  • Damage: 20
B!E! (623K:K:K:K:K:K:K:K)
  • Mid, rest is High
  • Damage: 16, 3, 2, 2, 2, 2,11,17 (more damage with clean hit last hit does 21dmg)
i19
3BB
  • Mid,Mid
  • Damage: 20,23 (more with clean hit becomes 20,29)
A+B- Combo Starter
  • Mid, mid, mid
  • Damage:20 (only 13 if you get random spin)
i22
623B-Combo Starter
  • Mid, mid, mid
  • Damage: 10,10,10
VS Characters
*unsafe moves are highlighted red, punishment highlighted yellow.

EDIT: I will be testing (and you guys too) from min-max range of punishment, I have a feeling some moves will give us pushback(yes people like Hilde, Astaroth I'm looking at you...)
My plan will also be to include interuppts, 8wring, duck punishing strings etc, as well as JG punishment too (God forbid...but I'll try lol)

Current Status: Working on Alpha Patroklos, incomplete.
List of Alpha's Unsafe moves on normal guard

*INCOMPLETE: CORRECTIONS AND ADDITIONS TO BE MADE*


-13
6K
Punish with K (for range) or AA for damage
Correction you can punish with BB, *note to self, so the move is -14..?

-14
2K
Punish with FCB for damage
1K
Punish with

-15

-16
6AA

Punish with 6A

-17

-18
1B - If they don't get the JF follow-up and it's blocked, punish with B!E!
2A(BE)- Punish with 4A

-19


-20
FC3B (if they miss the JF and you confirm it well, punish with A+B at close range, may whiff at max range tip?)
CE- Punish this with A+B if you even block this...



-22
AGB_A:G:B- Both versions can be punished with 623B
1AA_1A:A - Crouch guard first hit, and block the second hit, punish them with 623B
bA- Punish with 623B



Working on Pyrrha: unfinished
-13


-14
AK: punish with 6B OR BB,
3A: punish with K in open field, if your back is by a wall punish with BB
4AB:QS to 11B combo

-15

-16
3B: open punish with K, if your back is by a wall, punish with BB

-17

-18
236B: Punish with B!E! but only if your back is against the wall, this move has little pushback so open space punish with B!E! is not possible, otherwise EXTREMELY difficult. 4A is the next best option

-19

-20
2BB: punish with B!E! or A+B etc or you can QS to 11B before the stab connects (if you think they'll follow up)

-21

-22
1A: punish with 623B of your execution from FC is good, though B!E! would be a better staple punish IMO

1AA: punish with 623B or B!E! etc

4AA_4AAA: punish with B!E!, THE SECOND YOU SEE HER TWITCH HER ARM, you can interrupt the remaining followups.
AZ
 
No problem, it will help us gain knowledge and a better understanding on our options. Another thing, I may include easy/common JG punishment, in particular maybe slow strings...BE moves (pyrrha's 66B BE comes to mind).

I'll update part of the spoilers tonight and do further testing after work tomorrow afternoon for a bit.

AZ
 
I've been working on frame data using quicktime which runs at 60 fps, hopefully I can help fill out some of this information. The only problem with using quicktime is that I can't really measure anything less than a frame so there's still going to be some error.
 
Pretty much all of his frame data is in the strategy guide, we just need someone to transfer it over, as well as retest and update it since some of the data is incorrect. I would but I'm too busy with real life to do it, which is one of the reasons I stepped down from being a Soul Arena mod here.

Somebody said:
I've been working on frame data using quicktime which runs at 60 fps, hopefully I can help fill out some of this information. The only problem with using quicktime is that I can't really measure anything less than a frame so there's still going to be some error.
Click to expand...

You don't need a program to test frame data, just do it in training mode using the known frames of Dampierre and other characters, it's the most practical and accurate way to do it. Also there isn't anything less than a frame in the game, so I don't get what you're talking about.
 
Wasn't able to get as much as I thought I could against alpha pat, turns out his bA was more punishable than I thought, it's at least -22 not -21...623B'able
 
AzyG4Lyfe said:
Wasn't able to get as much as I thought I could against alpha pat, turns out his bA was more punishable than I thought, it's at least -22 not -21...623B'able
Click to expand...
623B is i21 if I'm not mistaken, so bA being -21 is correct.
 
Slade said:
623B is i21 if I'm not mistaken, so bA being -21 is correct.
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Nope it's i22, I referenced the guide as well just to make sure, plus synraii verified this when punishing with a move from patroklos, bA is -22.

AZ
 
bA being negative -22 means you only have a 1 frame window to punish with 623B... and pray that you don't go into PB when it happens.
 
Windstar said:
bA being negative -22 means you only have a 1 frame window to punish with 623B... and pray that you don't go into PB when it happens.
Click to expand...

You could just punish with A+B. A+B B!E! 4B does more dmg than 623B 623B RCC A+B B!E! 4B, however, the payoff for 623B would be ROs and carrying your opponent to a wall for the 3A infinite.
 
Somebody said:
You could just punish with A+B. A+B B!E! 4B does more dmg than 623B 623B RCC A+B B!E! 4B, however, the payoff for 623B would be ROs and carrying your opponent to a wall for the 3A infinite.
Click to expand...
You talk as if your suggestions are practical outside of "theory fighting".

Neither A+B, the Hat Trick Combo, or the 3A "infinite" attempt are practical in battle due to their lack of consistency.

Punishing a -22 move with 623B~B!E!~4B will give you more consistency than A+B~B!E~4B simply because 623B has a higher chance of not randomly failing compared to A+B (based on my experience). Also, a failed 623B will usually leave you in a better position than a failed A+B.

In situations where 623B can't punish, I will always opt for punishing with B!E!~4B instead of A+B~B!E!~4B. While going for A+B is more damaging, the consistency of B!E! not randomly failing makes it more practical for battle.
 
OOFMATIC said:
You talk as if your suggestions are practical outside of "theory fighting".
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Part of discussing always includes some theory, but I don't typically offer completely impractical suggestions. It's not like I talk about just guarding everything or something.

OOFMATIC said:
Neither A+B, the Hat Trick Combo, or the 3A "infinite" attempt are practical in battle due to their lack of consistency.
Click to expand...

It doesn't mean you don't try if you have good opportunity. You obviously wouldn't do it when it's clearly unsafe or can win the round with a more reliable move, but there are times where you might as well try to pull them off for high dmg.

OOFMATIC said:
Punishing a -22 move with 623B~B!E!~4B will give you more consistency than A+B~B!E~4B simply because 623B has a higher chance of not randomly failing compared to A+B (based on my experience). Also, a failed 623B will usually leave you in a better position than a failed A+B.
Click to expand...

A+B would be easier to punish with than 623B, and even if the A+B fails, you're safe as long as it hits your opponent. If you can land 623B, then you've got more options, but A+B will still be more practical since you have more frames and you don't need any D-pad inputs. If you can pull off the 623B to punish in about 1 frame, then props to you.

OOFMATIC said:
In situations where 623B can't punish, I will always opt for punishing with B!E!~4B instead of A+B~B!E!~4B. While going for A+B is more damaging, the consistency of B!E! not randomly failing makes it more practical for battle.
Click to expand...

I pretty much agree.
 
Somebody said:
A+B would be easier to punish with than 623B, and even if the A+B fails, you're safe as long as it hits your opponent. If you can land 623B, then you've got more options, but A+B will still be more practical since you have more frames and you don't need any D-pad inputs. If you can pull off the 623B to punish in about 1 frame, then props to you.
Click to expand...
In regards to a move like Alpha's -22 bA it's not difficult to punish it with 623B at all. 1 frame punishes are difficult to do on moves with good recovery, but not on a move that recovers as bad as -22. But since we both agree that B!E! on it's own is better than going for A+B when punishing, I don't get why you're suggesting A+B at all for practicality.
 
Generally, I'm bad at DP inputs. So if I get the chance to step and attempt to punish a whiff, A+B is usually my choice. If A+B "fails" well... both me and the opponent are on neutral ground and at least I managed to do something, so its not all bad. Still trying to punish something within one frame with a DP-input move is pretty tricky for me, and I'd much rather predict something like Alpha's bA and counter it with 1A. Still, I'll try to work on my punishing here.

With regards to 623B's failure though on punishing something like Alpha's bA, you end up in a pretty risky position where Alpha could FCaB you. That is, if he manages to pull off the JF. The worse he could do is... 2K?
 
Windstar said:
Generally, I'm bad at DP inputs. So if I get the chance to step and attempt to punish a whiff, A+B is usually my choice. If A+B "fails" well... both me and the opponent are on neutral ground and at least I managed to do something, so its not all bad. Still trying to punish something within one frame with a DP-input move is pretty tricky for me, and I'd much rather predict something like Alpha's bA and counter it with 1A. Still, I'll try to work on my punishing here.

With regards to 623B's failure though on punishing something like Alpha's bA, you end up in a pretty risky position where Alpha could FCaB you. That is, if he manages to pull off the JF. The worse he could do is... 2K?
Click to expand...

Oh dear, I think you should really practice the DP inputs my friend, they are invaluable, especially when you could be punishing with B!E! (i18) more than A+B(i19) if you're worried 623B will fail.
I know you can do it, so keep trying



AZ
 
AzyG4Lyfe said:
Oh dear, I think you should really practice the DP inputs my friend, they are invaluable, especially when you could be punishing with B!E! (i18) more than A+B(i19) if you're worried 623B will fail.
I know you can do it, so keep trying
AZ
Click to expand...

Funnily enough, after 3000 games of SC5 (and countless more in other games), I still can't do it. My win rates tend to hover under 30% and even less than 10% in other games (like Tekken). I'm just not capable of doing DP inputs very well I'm afraid. So characters that I like, such as Dampierre tend to be my absolutely worst characters that I can play. Characters that are more input friendly for me, like Leixia, don't actually yield better results, however.

It's a bizarre thing about me. I can do many JF button inputs with ease, such as Alpha's, but input methods requiring a joystick or pad are far more difficult. So while I can do Alpha's 1B:B, FC3B:B or nail most of Dampierre's JFs on 623K, I can't do simple inputs like 236236 on 2P side. Nor am I able to perform DPs on a dime on either side.

So I'll keep trying and my win rates will keep plummeting, but it won't be for lack of trying.
 
A quick update, I've made a bit of progress on some character punishment, breezing through Pyrrha's atm, 236B is -18 as we all know...BUT here's the catch, we CANNOT punish it with B!E! because of the little pushback 236B gives on block, HOWEVER, if our back is by a wall, we can punish the stab with B!E!

With that in mind, I'll be making notes of certain punishes we can do when we are in the open and when we are by a wall.

I'll update the Patroklos and Pyrrah spoilers once I've gone over them tonight hopefully.

AZ
 
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