Devil Jin @ Toronto REVIVAL 2 Poll

Should Devil Jin be re-banned at REV 2?

  • No Opinion - Indifferent.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    6
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ooofmatic

World Warrior
Here are the guidelines for banning at the tournaments that I run:

-BANS are a last resort
-BANS are only based on severe gameplay balance issues that unfairly affect the competition *No Exceptions*

Based on this, Devil Jin does not qualify for a ban (until proven otherwise). CaS is banned because of the impossibility to train against all the potential variables of possible CaS combinations. Having a standard Devil Jin formula solves this by giving competitors a consistent hitbox/hurtbox to train for. There are people who enjoy Devil Jin, and I want them to be able to enjoy SCV to the fullest and feel welcome in the tournaments. If Devil Jin proves to be too overpowered for competitive play, I will have zero issues with banning him.

I am currently planning REV 2, and would like feedback from Toronto players. There are a couple of players who really love Devil Jin's style and have expressed interest in using him at the next tournament (Mastaroth being one of them), so keep that in mind.

But for now I would just like some feedback in order for me to feel more comfortable with the decision. Please vote, and if possible, politely express your opinion and/or concerns. Thanks!

*Please Vote only if you are potentially able to attend Toronto REVIVAL 2*
 

Ooofmatic

World Warrior
It's ok, the poll is set to show voter's names. So I can still get an idea of what the feedback from Toronto players is.
 

Chu-Fye

[10] Knight
I believe I am well qualified to say this character doesnt belong in this game PERIOD.
Reasons too numerous to mention all.
Hitbox issues. He is OP , if you actually take the time to play him or even against a veteran who uses him.
It really also is unfair to all the veterans who have absolutely no experiences using him or fighting against him.
Lets be real here and face the facts! Many players(Not all) who use Devil Jin, use him solely on the basis of the element of surprise. Knowing fairly well 99% of players have no idea who the character is or what to do against him. That way they can sneak a few easy wins in. Thats a fact!

Just my $0.00 cents.
 

Ooofmatic

World Warrior
Thank you for your feedback. Can you please link me to a video that demonstrates a veteran player using Devil Jin against another top player? I am eager to see the evidence of his brokenness myself so that I can ban him on that basis alone and put this issue to rest.
 

Chu-Fye

[10] Knight
Thank you for your feedback. Can you please link me to a video that demonstrates a veteran player using Devil Jin against another top player? I am eager to see the evidence of his brokenness myself so that I can ban him on that basis alone and put this issue to rest.


I have no such videos, as I dont think you can find any video other than his ridiculous combo videos, which doesnt prove anything.
What I do have is many people on 8wayrun stating he is broken and he should remain banned. I do believe if all this people are saying the same thing, then there might be some merit to it.
Also what I do have as well, is personal experiences playing top players online, who choose him for fun just to show off how ridiculous he can be.
Have you ever been to the Devil Jin rooms on XBL and PSN? I suggest you search for them and give it a shot. However I think you probably have, seeing you spend alot of time online.

If you havent, then please do. If your opinion stays the same, then what can I say, to each his own.
 

Ooofmatic

World Warrior
The only Devil Jin experience that I have online is against the occasional Ranked player. And while I do hate fighting him because of my inexperience against him and because of his extremely unorthodox gameplay, it still hasn't convinced me that he is broken. The only thing it has convinced me of was that I needed more experience in learning how to deal with him.

However, the Mastaroth (an SC vet who also plays Tekken) has expressed great interest in picking up Devil Jin, and told me that he is going to learn him. So this will be an opportunity for myself and even others to experience first hand and gain an understanding on how to fight him in order to undeniably determine if Devil Jin is truly broken or not.
 

Eli123s

when it rains, it pours
Is this thread a joke or something?

This tourney that just ran only had 5 people, even though there was a promise/"hype" of 8 people.
From this DJ inclusion you gained not a single new player, and you lost at least 3 players who other wise would have showed if the tourney followed the standard rule set.

Wasn't the point of allowing DJ for the purpose and attracting Tekken players.
DJ did not attract new players. You said you would drop this idea and follow the standard rule.

But apparently you're changing the argument about DJ to keep this debate going. So now you are claiming existing people are interested in playing DJ. You quote Sammy as one of them and I assume you must be referring to your self as well.

I am just going to qoute someone cause it describes "this" so perfectly and leave it at that.
"The man who lies and listens to his own lie comes to a point where he cannot distinguish the truth within him, or the truth around him." - Fyodor Dostoyevsky

--------
Do you think you can decide what goes and what doesn't in the community, because you do not represent the majority.
Yes, you can do what you want for the tournament you run, but it clear you're not doing this in the interest of the community. Its fine, the reality will speak for it self, like with this tourney.

With this perpetuating DJ debate you lost sight of what really important and that is Soul Calibur.

-------
I'm copy/pasting what franman posted earlier, because it should be addressed and it fitting for this thread
Amaury, although you posted that you talk to a bunch of ppl and got them interested in allowing DJ in your tournament, the real deal is whether they did show up, but unfortunately the reality shows in your tourney brackets. You also mention 8 players with a possibility of a few more in hopes of getting 10 or more players, but the majority of these players are familiar SC veterans who would show up to any local SC tourney regardless whether DJ is banned or not. The only new players I noticed are ThatDarnNinja and that dude from London, Ontario, I had to wonder if these are the new players who are interested because of that DJ tolerance, however, as far as them being mentioned, the reality is they didn't show up.

I hate to say it, but you brought up a potential hype that didn't live towards its expectations and I was looking forward for you to prove my doubts incorrect at least in the first phase, but with only 5 participants whom all are familiar SC veterans who would participate regardless whether DJ is banned or not, I think its pointless to include DJ in tournaments from that point onward.
-----------

To the Toronto Players:
Anyways if there is a strong desire from most members wanting a tournament. Then lets have one, as there is really nothing stoping us. There is no need to rely on oof because it causes unnecessary problems. I am sure if people are really interested we have create a smoothly run tournament similar to what we had when Russell was running the tournaments.
 

Ooofmatic

World Warrior
I see you're going with wild assumptions about me like usual, Eli. But thanks for the feedback anyways. Let's try to keep this civil.

I have always been a strong promoter of "Bans should only be a LAST RESORT and based on SEVERE imbalances". This is not a new stance I'm taking. I've been defending this stance since the Soul Calibur 2 days when you were a nooblet.

In SC2 Lizardman, Assassin, and Berserker were banned, but not because of anything to do with balance. I was against that.

In SC3 Abyss and most bonus characters were banned for reasons other than balance. I was against that for the same reason.

Same goes for SC4 with Star Wars/Algol/Hilde (to some extent).

And now again in 5 Devil Jin is banned based stubbornness and the assumption that he is imbalanced.

Again, thanks for the feedback folks.
 

Eli123s

when it rains, it pours
So you're assuming that I'm assuming some wild assumptions about you....wait what?

First a wild assumption would be making a huge leap from point A to point B without evidence.
For example a wild assumption would be saying you're a homosexual because you're a homophobe. When it could just be that you're a bigot.

The only assumption I made was you were interested in playing DJ. After all you said a couple of people were interested in playing DJ, Sammy as being one and who else? It is not out of the ordanary to assume you as the other one, unless you specifically say who else was interested.

Everything else stated was facts, like you causing unnecessary problems. Lying about the people attending and now lying about the intended purpose of allowing DJ a the tourney.

----

You say lets keep this civil but then to proceed to call me nooblet in the very next sentence. Not that I am offended, cause that would mean I value your words. If you are talking about civility then act civil. I started playing this game in SC3, so if you were going to insult me you should have said it at your SC3 point.
----
And yet you continue with your ideology and try to force it on other people, like a religious fundamentalist. You do not address my points or what franman has said but I guess you can't dispute facts.
 

Ooofmatic

World Warrior
Why so defensive? Why would you mention the nooblet comment if you know it wasn't meant to be offensive? It's just the way I talk, if you're offended about being called a nooblet then I dunno what to say lol.

And lying about people attending? I contacted the people who said they would show but didn't and they all told me that priorities such as work came up for them. So don't go calling me a liar now. We all know how you like to instigate drama with me. But I think the rest of us are past that so I'll leave it at that.

Devil Jin is still an undecided issue. But so far it seems that Partisan, Reptile, and the people who attended/said they would show don't seem to mind or don't care about allowing him. It's just the usual suspects who are up in arms. And it's not about whether DJ players showed up or not, but that the potential is there.

I'll see about contacting more people personally about this issue to get more varied feedback.

If anything, I'll see about satisfying the anti-DJ people by omitting his allowance from the rules, but still allowing him in the tourney if both players agree. Also I'll make a fat clown CaS with Ivy's moveset and name him Eli, and I'll put in the rules that he's allowed. If you boycott because of that, it would be hilarious lol.

Point is, don't take the rules of a small local tournament so seriously, it's not a major tournament, so it really has little to no detrimental effect to have rules that slightly deviate from the "community standard".
 

Chu-Fye

[10] Knight
Im starting to get pissed off again. Im being serious here.
Oof you made a poll about whether to allow Devil Jin or not. As it stands right now, the poll says 4-1 in favour of him being banned.
I am gonna *ASSUME* that the single vote to allow him is yours. I think we all assume thus.

Now if you put that poll there to guage the community's wishes (and not yours), its obvious what everyone thinks and wants .
Now Im already starting to relapse into what it was over the past few months.. why? Because it seems Yooouuuu are the one being stubborn about this. The community has vottedddd for gods sake man...

WE DO NOTTT WANT DEVIL JINNNNN!!!!! Im shouting now...

So its obvious what Eli is implying is FACTUAL n TRUE! This devil jin issue, isnt about other players using him. Not about Sammy the Mastaroth using him. Its about YYOOUUUU wanting to use him and nobody else. Its sooo fricking obvious now. The poll is 80% to 20%. 4-1. Thats a landslide.
What are you waiting for? call it quits. If it was anyone else who genuinely wanted to know what the community thinks of Devil Jin, this thread would be closed by now.
But Noooo.. this is about youuuu rallying for him to be accepted, so you can use him the way u did Dampierre, till dampierre got figured. So now you found another troll character, and you aint quitting.

Look at your past history. Yoda, Vader, etc et etc..
There's no denying it bro.
Now STTOOOPPPPPPPPP!!!

I really wanna put our past beef behind and make this civil and about the game. But now you're starting to piss me off again. Oofmatic, for the final time. Put devil jin to rest.
Lets play the game legitimately. Lets meet up for some games, lets just be cool.

Case closed!
 

Ooofmatic

World Warrior
lol you're getting pissed off? Oh my.

Ok you guys win, I'll ban DJ. But if both players agree then he can be used.

But I'm gonna make tiny Asta CaS named "Angry Chu", with a squeaky voice and why not, I'll give him the clown look as well. I'll put in the rules that he's allowed.

Alright, so DJ banned, Clown Eli and Angry Chu are now tournament legal.
 

Syn_SC

[10] Knight
I know its not my place to say and is completely hypoctritcal considering my past but you two should try to work together instead of arguing. The SC scene has always been and in all likelyhood always will be pretty small generally and the few hardcore players around being on bad terms helps nothing. Though I'm inclined to agree with eli: DVJ being banned has never been a major controversy and the vast majority of offline players are happy with the ban so whats the problem? Unbanning him is the real controversy and what's the point of potentially upsetting a majority for a couple of players (who I doubt would be long term anyway if they dont play just because they cant use dvj) who may or may not subsequently attend? I get why you're considering it Oof but with all due respect it would in all likelyhood just annoy players and/or cause problems.

Feel free to tell me to bugger off as its absolutely none of my business but I felt the need to say that.
 

Ooofmatic

World Warrior
I know its not my place to say and is completely hypoctritcal considering my past but you two should try to work together instead of arguing. The SC scene has always been and in all likelyhood always will be pretty small generally and the few hardcore players around being on bad terms helps nothing. Though I'm inclined to agree with eli: DVJ being banned has never been a major controversy and the vast majority of offline players are happy with the ban so whats the problem? Unbanning him is the real controversy and what's the point of potentially upsetting a majority for a couple of players (who I doubt would be long term anyway if they dont play just because they cant use dvj) who may or may not subsequently attend? I get why you're considering it Oof but with all due respect it would in all likelyhood just annoy players and/or cause problems.

Feel free to tell me to bugger off as its absolutely none of my business but I felt the need to say that.
I actually agree with you, if this were a tournament of some significance. However this is not a tournament major, we are not expecting international competition. This is a small local tourney with rules that will have no significant negative impact on the well being of the community except for the few who choose to make it have an impact by constantly crying about it. The point of the rule is to acknowledge that people who love playing DJ do exist and to let them feel welcome.

Anyways I think a soft ban on DJ is a good compromise, that way people who don't wanna fight him don't have to, and people who don't mind fighting him can allow their opponent to use him if they wish.
 

Chu-Fye

[10] Knight
I know its not my place to say and is completely hypoctritcal considering my past but you two should try to work together instead of arguing. The SC scene has always been and in all likelyhood always will be pretty small generally and the few hardcore players around being on bad terms helps nothing. Though I'm inclined to agree with eli: DVJ being banned has never been a major controversy and the vast majority of offline players are happy with the ban so whats the problem? Unbanning him is the real controversy and what's the point of potentially upsetting a majority for a couple of players (who I doubt would be long term anyway if they dont play just because they cant use dvj) who may or may not subsequently attend? I get why you're considering it Oof but with all due respect it would in all likelyhood just annoy players and/or cause problems.

Feel free to tell me to bugger off as its absolutely none of my business but I felt the need to say that.


Thannkkk Youuu!!!!

Finally someone other than us, call this shit out. Now he listens (sotta).
 

Chu-Fye

[10] Knight
lol you're getting pissed off? Oh my.

Ok you guys win, I'll ban DJ. But if both players agree then he can be used.

But I'm gonna make tiny Asta CaS named "Angry Chu", with a squeaky voice and why not, I'll give him the clown look as well. I'll put in the rules that he's allowed.

Alright, so DJ banned, Clown Eli and Angry Chu are now tournament legal.


Now Mr Oofmatic.. I hope everyone sees its you who have resortted to the name calling again.
Now if I respond accordingly, you're gonna start crying and saying leave you alone, stop picking on you.

I want the moderators to see this. Thisss is what Ive been saying alllll along.
This guys attacks me and others. When we respond, he cries foul. He then runs to the mods and complains how we are attacking him and causing trouble.

REPTILE. Truce is overrrrrrr!!!!!!
 

Ooofmatic

World Warrior
lol!!

Chu Fye you are wayyy too easy to offend. It's not my problem if you can't take a joke!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.