DLC characters need to be available in training

AMillionHP

AMillionHP

[13] Hero
This is something that hasn't really been a concern for previous SC games because there have only been two and they both had 1 DLC character.

Now i am looking at a season pass of four characters that i must purchase just to learn matchups and counter strategies. It isn't only if i want to use the character or not. If i want to be more competitive and learn the game better, i must purchase all DLC. I really don't think that is very fair.

Before i get the replies citing recent fighting games as examples stating "this is nothing new", I don't care. Admittedly i've been out of the loop for a while in this genre playing other things but i feel the nature of fighting games that definitely requires a greater investment of time and effort than just about anything else should allow DLC characters on training modes for free. I've never felt forced to buy DLC playing anything else. At least not to this extent anyway.
 
Oh wow ok, i'll say i'm legitimately surprised to get this kind of response. I definitely didn't expect everyone would agree that it is a major issue but i thought i would at least get some what intelligent responses instead of this. It is people's money afterall and the nature of DLC fighting game characters is a little bit different compared to DLC for other games. I thought i explained that point well enough.

You know i would love for the two of you to explain why exactly this isn't a topic that is worth discussing.
 
I actually agree, not only because it's a nice gesture and would give the game much needed good will but because I noticed I bought more stuff in Brawlhalla just because you get everything in training mode. Almost every time I go to training in that game I buy a skin or a character. Some times I only do it because seeing everything in training makes me feel like they respect their fans, and it's really easy for me to throw money at a game that makes me feel respected. That being said the lack of skins and dlc characters in SC make this situation a bit different so it's probably unfair for me to compare
 
Im definitely not suggesting they hand anything out for free. Letting someone fight a training dummy still gives us no access to any other single or multiplayer modes or any costume pieces/stages/etc. associated with that character. The only people who actually use training modes anyway are more competitive players. Not the casuals so how much money could they possibly lose from that anyway?

I know people have always criticized Capcom's approach of reselling upgraded versions of their games but i feel that is an overall cheaper and better approach. At least then you dont have to fight characters you have no access to.

I was playing Smite for a while and yes that is a completely different game but i dont see why that should matter. They just charged a set price up front for all future characters. Everything cosmetic like skins was available for purchase but nothing that actually affects gameplay i believe.
 
AMillionHP said:
Oh wow ok, i'll say i'm legitimately surprised to get this kind of response.
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On this site where any complaint about SCVI gets a "just shut up and deal with it response"? I'm not surprised at all.

Anyway it's a good suggestion. If the rest of the season pass is filled with unappealing characters I'd hate to have to get it anyway just to learn the matchups even though I have no interest in actually playing them.
 
thenewperson said:
On this site where any complaint about SCVI gets a "just shut up and deal with it response"? I'm not surprised at all.

Anyway it's a good suggestion. If the rest of the season pass is filled with unappealing characters I'd hate to have to get it anyway just to learn the matchups even though I have no interest in actually playing them.
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The only thing i can see against this from a business perspective is the idea that NB feels they can force a purchase by not making the movelist available. I dont think that is the case though. More likely it'll just irritate and annoy players who weren't going to make the purchase anyway. Which in turn affects their future purchasing decisions and if they'll continue to support the game/series or not.
 
TBH, I think Killer Instinct already did this when I bought it in 2016 and I was surprised to see neither Tekken nor SC did. Can't speak about SFV AE because I got them all :P
 
I'm pretty sure that the whole point of DLC is that they want you to spend your money to buy it lol letting you use them in any way for free defeats the purpose. Wanna learn the match up? Buy the season pass.
 
Ninjaguy446 said:
I'm pretty sure that the whole point of DLC is that they want you to spend your money to buy it lol letting you use them in any way for free defeats the purpose. Wanna learn the match up? Buy the season pass.
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But i thought i explained how it doesnt really work that way for a player and i explained how it doesn't really defeat the purpose. Unless you are suggesting there is anyone who exists that strictly plays the game in training mode and nothing else.
 
AMillionHP said:
But i thought i explained how it doesnt really work that way for a player and i explained how it doesn't really defeat the purpose. Unless you are suggesting there is anyone who exists that strictly plays the game in training mode and nothing else.
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No, you said that it wasn't fair that you had to buy the DLC if you wanted to learn the matchup. Namco is a business first and foremost, so they don't care about "fair," they care about your money. If I am a competitive player there is no reason for me to buy a character I don't intend on using if I can just learn the matchup in training mode. You said it yourself, casuals don't use training mode so this won't affect them either. Competitive players are the only demographic who would benefit from having DLC as a training dummy, and that would lead to less season pass purchases because people could just pick and choose who they want, which is why Namco would not do that.
 
Ninjaguy446 said:
No, you said that it wasn't fair that you had to buy the DLC if you wanted to learn the matchup. Namco is a business first and foremost, so they don't care about "fair," they care about your money. If I am a competitive player there is no reason for me to buy a character I don't intend on using if I can just learn the matchup in training mode. You said it yourself, casuals don't use training mode so this won't affect them either. Competitive players are the only demographic who would benefit from having DLC as a training dummy, and that would lead to less season pass purchases because people could just pick and choose who they want, which is why Namco would not do that.
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What i said is that people dont base their purchase decisions on learning a character with the exception of maybe competitive players. That would be a very trivial number. Casuals will purchase a character only if they want it or not regardless of learning the matchup. For anyone who wants to learn the character but doesnt attend tournaments, they wont buy it either. It'll just piss them off which negatively affects future sales down the road.

None of that has anything to do with what is or isnt fair. Although yes, i did also throw that point in but here is the thing, some companies manage being profitable with more fair practices.

Edit: Actually now that i think more on it, i'm probably more correct than i originally thought. Among the most competitive players, meaning those who would take full advantage of the feature, would more likely than not be purchasing all DLC available anyway because they enjoy the series more than most others and naturally want to support it. So now, i'm not even sure they would lose that comparatively miniscule number of sales.
 
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AMillionHP said:
This is something that hasn't really been a concern for previous SC games because there have only been two and they both had 1 DLC character.
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A game doesn't cost $60 anymore. The question is whether or not the DLC has become the trend to increase profitability because 60 bucks per game is too low, or because the publisher has some stats showing that having DLC on release increases the number of preorders and sales. But this idea that it's only $60 to buy a game is outdated. If there isn't micro-transactions, there is something else to increase the longevity of the title.
 
NuSix3 said:
A game doesn't cost $60 anymore. The question is whether or not the DLC has become the trend to increase profitability because 60 bucks per game is too low, or because the publisher has some stats showing that having DLC on release increases the number of preorders and sales. But this idea that it's only $60 to buy a game is outdated. If there isn't micro-transactions, there is something else to increase the longevity of the title.
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I wont disagree with this. It is a legitimate point but i see most games being developed with a conscious effort to separate base game and DLC with essential elements and extra content. In other words what i mean is something like stages, music, costumes, etc are great ideas for DLC, less so for characters. Especially if there is a lot and they wont at least make them available for training.

Doing this could help advertise the movelist to a player, enticing them to purchase the character when they otherwise wouldnt have.
 
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AMillionHP said:
I wont disagree with this. It is a legitimate point but i see most games being developed with a conscious effort to separate base game and DLC with essential elements and extra content. In other words what i mean is something like stages, music, costumes, etc are great ideas for DLC, less so for characters. Especially if there is a lot and they wont at least make them available for training.

Doing this could help advertise the movelist to a player, enticing them to purchase the character when they otherwise wouldn't have.
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I'm totally with you. I wish that's how they did it. I wonder how well DoA 5 did with that model? If you bought all characters and modes it didn't cost more than the base game, but the costumes were expensive as hell and there were so many of them. The prices never went down either even though the game was pretty old. One good sale and I probably would have started playing, but I just didn't think it was worth so much for such a dated title.

Another thing I didn't consider until now is that the retailer and the platform license combined take half the earnings of a regularly priced game. I wouldn't think they'd take that much on DLC, but maybe they do? It would certainly explain why they don't do more of what you're saying.
 
AMillionHP said:
I wont disagree with this. It is a legitimate point but i see most games being developed with a conscious effort to separate base game and DLC with essential elements and extra content. In other words what i mean is something like stages, music, costumes, etc are great ideas for DLC, less so for characters. Especially if there is a lot and they wont at least make them available for training.

Doing this could help advertise the movelist to a player, enticing them to purchase the character when they otherwise wouldnt have.
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Technically can't you already train against (an admittedly brain dead) Tira in both the soul chronicle and libra of souls modes even without purchasing her? Doesn't that work perfectly well enough for an advertisement for the game?

For the record I agree characters shouldn't be DLC but the fighting game community lost their ability to quickly put an end to it almost ten years ago when people supported the practices when they first began happening. Sure we can attempt to change things but good luck getting enough people to do so.
 
If they did this people would instantly be like "ITS NOT FAIR YOU CAN FIGHT THEM IN TRAINING. THEY'RE LOCKED BEHIND A PAYWALL." Blah blah blah. Don't pretend this wouldn't happen because it most definitely would.

If you are actually considering being competitive at a high level and this is something standing in your way, you should be willing to shell out the cash for dlc because we all know by now that the roster is subject to grow over time, which is something I welcome over waiting another 5 years to get a whole new game with an updated roster that runs on the same engine with slightly tweaked mechanics.
 
All someone has to do is make certain they have friends/contacts who main DLC characters or at least have them purchased and run through the strategies, movelists, frame data, or whatever.

Its definitely a hassel and not the most convenient method of learning the character but it is a method to 100% bypass purchasing the DLC for characters you dont like anyway. So they aren't really blocking people from anything or helping their season pass sales.
 
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