Feel My Wrath: Mitsurugi Matchup Thread

66a+b is better if it gives the standing hit but it seems inconsistent for me

also I was wrong about Aeon's 8b+k. I didn't know he could go into fly when i wrote that. 8b+k, k beats 236b hold but loses to 236b
 
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Jaeger said:
66a+b is better if it gives the standing hit but it seems inconsistent for me

also I was wrong about Aeon's 8b+k. I didn't know he could go into fly when i wrote that. 8b+k, k beats 236b hold but loses to 236b
Click to expand...
tested that again
236B hold close block, if he does 8B+K,K you get BT B+K / ws B on mid block (you get extra 236B if he goes into fly / at far block you have to guess if he flies or not. either way you get 66BB if you guess right
I think thats about right
 
Xiba:

1. 33a is interesting if you 9g after blocking the first hit and they stop there they are at +13 (free standing k) if they do 33aa you get bt b+k if you land behind them or 3b if you land in front of them. If they do 33aa* except for on max range you end up behind them and get ch fc1bb for easily over 100 damage
2. a+bb jg the 3rd hit for a free 3b (interrupts a+bbk and a+bbk*) if they stop at a+b you can wiff the jg and go for mixup. If you try 2kb* the 3rd hit of the string seems to randomly be blockable by xiba if you hit him out of the k followup.
3. 6ak you can just hold 8 (p1) after blocking the 6a and it will walk around the k for a free 3b. Interrupt k* with a 3b after the first hit or he'll be out of range. Works if 6a hits as well.
4. 1a close jg gives 236b hold
5. 6bk* will beat mitsu 4b more often than it will lose
6. 6b by itself will beat 4b+k (xiba can 3b you out of it) Mitsu can space out 6b 3b with 44b+k but then he can no longer interrupt 6bk*
7. I don't understand why leixia and ivy can 2a interrupt 6bk but mitsu cant
8. If you jg the 2nd hit of 6bk you get 3b but if you let go of guard too early end up up BT after the jg
9. If you jg the 2nd hit of 6bk* you can step and 236b hold or qsr and backthrow, step 3b is easier
10. if you block 3b a quick duck followed by a standing jg will duck 3b and jg a quick RMB b and a. you can look for RMB k and block it after the jg attempt. punishing is really annoying.
11. if you jg RMB a you get 3b but loses to RMB ak, you can ss the k and 3b but then he can block if he only does RMB a, settling for an aa will punish both
12. if you jg RMB b you can 236b hold, jg side step 3b will punish RMB b and RMB ak
13. 4b+k jg 3b punishes and beats all stance options
14. 11aa jg 2nd hit for 236b
15. after 11b block 6b9 wiffs at max range
16. 66kb you can 22a+b after 1st block and combo with 66bb for over 100 dmg. if they stop at 66k they can interrupt it though
17. 66kb you can ssr or qsr after first block, which is much safer if they 66k by itself
18. 22k on max block is safe to 4kb (they can even step it seems), 6b is guaranteed still
19. ws k on max block first hit of aa wiffs you get 2a

edit:
20. if you ssr after 66k and he does b or bhold you can 4b+k, MST a+b. More damage and safer than 22a+b
 
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Alpha Pat done. All crew done now. Phew.

Jaeger said:
Xiba:

snip
Click to expand...
1. Doesnt seem very practical to me, as 33AA and 33AA* are both heavily punishable. Also if you 9G and they do 33AA* you'll get hit unless you block it close (in which case you end up BT). Its funny b/c it was the first punishment I came up all the way back, but then it didnt get into what I posted in the end :p
2. Interesting for OS, but it seems you can do it even w/o JG, which seems not easy to do here. But anyway Im adding it. good find. 2KB* can be blocked when it hits opponents back. Its a bug probably.
3. On hit! nice.
5-9 - was going to put those up as well. I dont think you can beat 3B by 44B+K here, however 6BK* never beats 44B+K, if you 44B+K and they do any version of 6BK its free punishment.
10. You can also get 236B hold here if youre fast if they go for 3BK
16. nice.
 
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Jaeger said:
It seems that we're missing Dampierre, Maxi, and Devil Jin. Although I don't really care about Devil Jin.

Also Yoshi and Voldo's stances aren't really covered.
Click to expand...
If my motivation for this doesnt wither, I'll be doing some kind of "matchup tutorial thread", I hope to cover some stuff that I missed out there.
Maxi is acutally covered in Stance Guide, but yeah, I forgot about him. Will do it sometime soon.
I dont have Dampierre its not available for download here yet. and DJ is banned anyway.
 
Belial said:
If my motivation for this doesnt wither, I'll be doing some kind of "matchup tutorial thread", I hope to cover some stuff that I missed out there.
Maxi is acutally covered in Stance Guide, but yeah, I forgot about him. Will do it sometime soon.
I dont have Dampierre its not available for download here yet. and DJ is banned anyway.
Click to expand...


Maxi does have a few moves that aren't in stances that you need to punish. :)

Still everything here is great. It's going to take me probably another week to even finish going through all of it.
Thanks for sharing all of this work with us less motivated lazy bums.

p.s. I wish Dampierre was not available here.
 
Belial said:
I think Astaroth is good for Mitsu. Did you check punishment thread?
Click to expand...
I did. I just have trouble against the grabbing. I'm afraid to just stand there, cause il get command grabbed, afraid to crouch cause of bullrush and crouch grabs, afraid to jump cause of air grabs. Dont know what to do at all
 
When I face Dampierre I just rush him before he gets a chance to do all his odd moves. I dont know how Damp plays anyway =D
 
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I want to try something new this time. Punishment thread is good and everything, but half of the moves I list there are never used in battle. The other can be mixed up. Stance cancels happen a lot as well. But thi isnt really how we lose rounds, right?
We lose to stupid RO, Tech Trap or Spam of moves we cannot beat that is just very annoying whch are often safe and hit our step.

So my goal here was to create a shortcut for everyone who cant go through all of the most important basic for each character.

Unfortunately, when I started this, I had doubts.
Like is this even needed? It doesnt seem to in-depth (and Im a big fan of in-depth as some of you may know). And most of this is done in "Feel My Wrath" thread.

So here is a test portion for you I assembled quickly. If you like it, I'll get all cast done pretty soon. I hope. And, of course, your ideas of handling annoying spam and stances, side step side exceptions etc are always much appreciated.

Also, tell me what you think of this kind of formatting, since its sort of a chore to edit (

Note: I dont list mid/high hitting forward RO's
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Lexia
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Ring Outs:
B-throw RO forward
Right side throw (your right side) RO to Lexia’s left
Backthrow rings out somewhere :p

General SideStep Side:
Left

Notable Unsafe Moves:
AAB : BB / JG 3B
44B_44B4 : 4KB this move like everything else can be stepped to the left, but not right. 4KB punishes both GI and normal version.
WS B : 236B / b6 at max range block. This move has a lot of evasion. As with the rest of her moves, step left to evade this. Mitsurugi has trouble with it, though, and may get hit out of step.
WS A+B : FC 1B or 236B betwen hits. On hit, however, can be followed up by either B (safe low hit) or BB (low guard break hit) you can jump-punish both with 9B. You can step or jump the GB on reaction.
6KK : 236B / JG 3B. Mainly used for punishment, however lots of range and good damage will put you in trouble if you dont pusnish that.
OTG A+B (aka Crybaby): 6B2 on block, 1B on hit. The famous X move. Mitsu has no trouble punishing that at all. Lucky!

Notable Safe Moves:
66BB: Second hit of this string is a bit hard to step. With good timing you can ssR or qsL. But its easier (lol) to JG (236B).
However, once Leixia think you are afraid, she stops after first block: there is a number of devious setups she can employ, like 3A+B, which is super annoying. You can prevent all movement here by b:A. It will also stop 66BBB. Will beat your 4B's etc. On hit leads to good damage. So watch out!

22_88B : if you block it while dashing forward you can punish with K. After you block BB and 236B cannot be escaped by Lexia. You are usually also left within 2KB range.
FC 3B : On block your are in mixup range where BB cannot be escaped. X can cancel this into low guardbreak move. That can be stepped/jumped on reaction.
AA* : The BE version cancels 3rd hit of AAB into same kind of move as Lexia 4BB is. She can also cancel the last hit of this into ground stomp. Sounds pretty complicated, does it? Well, thankfully its really easy to react to BE flash and quicly step 3B between 3rd and 4th hit. This will cover all possible options.
WS B* : This is very annoying, as even if you JG (which takes some practice) all 3 hits you only get AA. Sucks. If you step left, however, partial hit occurs which you can use to punish with 3B.
2B+K : ground stomp, beware! Close range its hits mid : JG 3B. Mid range it hits low : block 6B9 punish.
6BAB and 4A+BB : If you fail to react (and step left) this is advantage on guard. watch out.
11kAA : This annoying series look like 11K low but is a mid with significant damage. You can block the first 3 hits and step, or atack with BB right away to interupt her K and B followup atacks

66AA: JG 2nd hit, 3B. Annoying step killer, with good damage. Leaves X in FC. If you tech to the side, you cant step FC 3BB, but still can jump. On block, WS B will lose to 2KB, while 1B will wiff, but you can block and punish WSB still.
3A+B : same as above.

Notable Tech Traps:
66BB or 66BBB -> dash 22_88B = stay OTG
2B+K close hit -> 6KK = stay OTG
FC 3bB -> 44A] = stay OTG

General Strategy tips:
88A is good counter to 44B and WS B
2KB usually beats WS B at close range
1B will usually catch 44B and wiff against WSB, but you can still block WS B and punish, even on wiff.
You can GI 44B and WS B on reaction.

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Patroklos
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Ring Outs:
B-throw Ring out forward
Right (your right) side-throw ring out forward
Backthrow RO forward

11B RO back

General sidestep side:
Right

Notable unsafe Moves:
236B : 4KB
3B : 236B
6BBB : duck 2nd hit an FC 1B/ block all 3 hits, 236B
WS KA : BB / JG 3B
236AB : step 236B hold
3KK and 44KK : Second hit is a high, you get a free 236B after ducking it.
1K : 236B
1A+B : 66BB
1A : 236B

Notable Safe moves:
66B: safe, pushes back on block, lots of range, big damage on hit. It may track to Patrokolos right side (your left) so dont step to the left
66A : very unpleasant mid hitting move, that covers step and huge advantage on hit. Do not atack if you get hit by this 3B and 1K cannot be escaped at all, you must guess. On block it is also very good.
1B : This move lacks range and has no tracking but is fairly fast, great damage on hit and neutral on guard - very annoying, since Pat has a few ways to prevent you from moving around. Practice not to confuse it with Pats reactable lows (1A and 1A+B).
236B* : You can step 2nd hit to your right and punish. JG 236B is also possible if you’re slow to react. Safe on guard.
66B+G : Patroklos command throw (the knee spam) is super annoying and deals a lot of damage and RO forward. His A-throw is also very good as it cannot be teched.
66A* : This is pretty easy to see comig, as Pat’s start BE flashing way before you block and the move itself isnt very fast. Sidestep to your left and 236B hold. Actually this move recovers so slow, you can walk all the way and get a back throw.

Notable Tech Traps:
3KK or 6BB (only second hit or inside of combos) -> 1B* = stay OTG
ch 2A+B, 1A -> 1A = tech right, block.
66B+G -> CE = tech left, punish (3B) or simply block and punish.
---------------------------------------
Xiba
---------------------------------------
Ring Outs:
33B - back
Right side throw - forward
Baclthrow - forward
6BK* - right
3BKK - forward and left
3kB - forward
1A+B - back
RMB K - forward
General SideStep Side:
Right

Notable Unsafe Moves:
Xiba has quite a few block strings that are both difficult for new players, but lead to normal or guard damage if you dont handle them in time.
AAK : Duck 2nd hit, ch FC 1B / Block the whole string and 236B
3_1A+B: 236B. 1A+B RO backward and can be broken by B-button. 3A+B doesnt RO, and breaks with A-button.
66BBB : SSR 2nd hit, 3B / Block all hits and 236B
33AA : Free 66BB or FC 3B (easier to do) on block. BE version is 4 hits, block all and 236B
22_88B : 236B. This move rings out, so beware near the edge. It is also TC annoying as fuck. 6A,33B is a chore to beat among many setups for this.
22_88AB : 6B8 - be careful, as Xiba can enter stance here. You can react to it with some practice and interrupt by quick pokes like 2A.
A+B,B,K : After you block the windmill hits 236B quickly. Its a punishment and also beats K ender.
RMB AK : BB. Careful b/c this RO and can be delayed.
otg A+B : If you block this you get a free 66A+B

Notable Safe Moves:
3AB : Xiba can enter stance after 1st hit, if you 2A quickly between hits it will punish. However you can just duck and punish or step 2nd hit to the left.
3BK : Another move that allows entry to stance. You can duck 2nd hit and punish.
6BK : Annoying string as it can be BE’d. Trying to JG the second hit of this is the best answer, I fear. If you block the normal version you’re in mixup range.
6AK : Same as above, but transition can be stopped via 2A.
11AA : mid into low. Dont get hit. Safe on block, so you have to JG (236B) or 9B 2nd hit.
66KB : This move is very difficult to counter for Mitsu, as his step is not very good. You need to react quickly and QSR after blocking 1st hit.

Notable Tech Traps:
ch 6B -> 1_3A+B = stay otg
ch 6BK -> delayed 3B = stay otg or tech roll right to escape
44K -> 22_88A = stay otg


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Leixia "6bab and" isn't on the correct line
Patroklos is misspelled.

Leixia 22b+k auto-gi is also hard to deal with.

It's really important to know how to safely attack Leixia in a way that deal with all of her panic moves (44b, 22b+k and ws b*). That's probably too much information for this format though.

Patroklos you should note that you can counter mash to reduce damage on his command throw. Just spinning the stick seems to be enough.
Patroklos 11b rings out to his back.

Heavy guard damage might also be a good thing to note.
IIRC Xiba's 6bk* breaks in 5 and it's really easy to want to block this.
 
Asta is really easy for Mitsu to pressure. A lot Mitsu's moves leave you at -2. Asta's fastest non-high interrupt is 2K at i15, but it's -2 on CH so it's not a threat. Next fastest is 4B at i16. Mitsu's 2A is i13. So you always have the opportunity to 2A after Asta blocks 6A, 22A, 66A+B, 2A+B, 6B8 or if he gets hit by 6B2. Some moves like 1B and 4A leave you at -4, and you can still pressure here because Asta has to take a risk to interrupt 2A.

All of his interrupts have weaknesses. 4B has hardly any range and is steppable, 6A is -2 on hit and weak, 6AA is duckable on block, 6K is 6B8 punishable, and bullrush is too slow to interrupt 2A until he's at +5 or more. His options can be heavily limited by 2A at low disadvantage, and most Astaroths I play opt to backwalk away rather than challenge it.

Once they start backing away, 6B8 may CH them out of it for a nice chunk of damage, 6A will at least put you at workable disadvantage if blocked while covering sidestep, and 6B2 will cover both options of backing away and standing still.

If he successfully gets out of the range of your incredibly annoying pokes, that's your queue to back up as well. Don't hang out in Asta's sweetspot, which is right outside yours (the place where you can poke with 6B series and catch step with 6A, and run in for mixups while being able to backstep out of immediate throw attempts). In Asta's sweetspot, he can 4A, 44A, 22B, and 2A freely while being able to bullrush at disadvantage at any time. Sacrifice your advantage to stay out of this sweetspot by either running in or backing off.

At a distance it's fairly managable because you know there are only a few attacks that can reach you. The range should determine what possible attacks could be coming, react accordingly. Do not block random 22Bs too much, it crushes in 6 blocks or something crazy, JG that shit. Same goes for 44A, after the blue flash he's commited so time that JG. If he perfectly spaces his 44As well there's not much you can do but try use that spacing against him by running in and out of its range. If anything of Asta's whiffs, be quick and punish it with 66BB, and be sure to hit confirm.

Mitsu might actually be one of Asta's hardest matchups, since he actually can sorta hang with Asta at range while being able to pressure up close.
 
The Xiba info is extremely helpful! I dislike the character completely from his design, to stances, and his quotes... He's such a fat ass!

It seems that Xiba is my biggest problem aside Maxi, probably because of my lack of match-up experience against him.

Anyways, this watered down version of the match up charts is nice for those trying to sort out the info from the other thread, although the other thread is better in terms of content and the information there, I have level up my game (6B series YES!)
 
Signia is on point with his post. However, being Astaroth, you can mix up 44(A) and 44A, the blue electricity can charge a little before you let go. Not the greatest mix up, but it works against someone who likes to JG 44(A).

Mitsu is one of Astaroth's hardest match-ups. Being able to poke, on -, safely, at mid range, kills Astaroth. They are both comfortable in mid range, but mitsu's mid range tools are faster, safer, and better than Astaroth's. Not to mention, Mitsurugi is still good in close range. And, in close range VS Astaroth, your real fear is grabs.
 
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Well, but is there anything you'd like to see? Do you want it the "hard" version actually?
I was thinking that its much easier (at least for me and at this point in the game) to pin down basic strategies like this for 80% of the cast. right away, and the rest 20% could probably be done in a month or so.

But with deep stuff, of course, its gonna take a lot of time. Also would take a lot of time for community to grow, b/c I cant do everything myself.
[Whine on] And btw SA's at this boards are generally VERY poor in content and most of this scarce info is also outdated or plain wrong :( To tell with truth, I believe I can say more about each character, than whats on the boards. I believe alot of ppl in USA have acess to FP guide and judging from Mitsu - there is a lot of info - combo, traps, FD etc - why nobody is posting is beyond me. So I have to search for everthing myself or through the vids (and then check myself anyway). Which sucks. [/whine off]

I'd like to hear an opinion in whats good, whats bad etc. What to add.
From Jaeger post I was thinking of adding a "strategy" section, where I can put some general tips at combatting not moves, but patterns etc (like X 44B, WS B he mentioned). I can try to add something so you can tell me if its ok.

We can also try to make this "universal thread". I can rate each character completeness in grades.
For example 1/3 would be for only basic stuff covered. 2/3 would be covered pretty much everything you need to know and 3/3 would be for detailed and in-depth matchup explanation.
So we can aim for doing 1/3 now and add more later, as community knowledge growth.
However Im not sure if its good idea, since from my exp in previous parts, every character VS might actually need a separate thread/guide and discussion.
 
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