Frame Data Discussion

Tiamat

Tiamat

[11] Champion
I don't have the frame data and I'm currently looking for a way to get +0 on hit or block for testing. Findings so far

CH 1K is now neg frames
6K and 3K now + on hit
6(B) NSS K is no longer a frametrap, it's awful
4A and CE are + on guard

FOUND IT. WR K is +0 on hit. gogogo

speed levels (I have guess speeds also based on punishing WS K/pyrrha frame data)
K (i13)> 6K (i14) > 1K/3K (i15) > 6B (i16) > 4K > 3A > 3B


3K i15, +2 hit, -10 guard
66B is -2 on guard
 
I can't wait to we have a frame data sheet. Anyway it goes NM is safer than in 4. His 66k for some stupid reason is unsafe. That was a great move that is now garbage
 
chaoticity said:
I can't wait to we have a frame data sheet. Anyway it goes NM is safer than in 4. His 66k for some stupid reason is unsafe. That was a great move that is now garbage
Click to expand...
66k wasn't really that amazing in 4 at higher level play. It was unsafe then too. Atleast now there is a quick KND on normal hit. It pushes them pretty far back too, giving you more zone control and giving them less. There's a lot more risk associated with this move than in 4, yes, but you shouldn't be whoring this move out anyway
 
chaoticity said:
I can't wait to we have a frame data sheet. Anyway it goes NM is safer than in 4.
Click to expand...

He is absolutely not safer than in 4. People have been saying this for a while now and it is just flat out wrong. I will explain why if asked but most people on this SA probably know why I say this by now whether they agree or not.
 
Tiamat said:
He is absolutely not safer than in 4. People have been saying this for a while now and it is just flat out wrong. I will explain why if asked but most people on this SA probably know why I say this by now whether they agree or not.
Click to expand...

The frames are not safer but the push back might make him safer in a way. But im disappointed by the stupid frames still.
 
I'll be willing to spare some frame data. correct me on the notations if i'm wrong.
1A- on guard -18, transition into gs -1
3B- on guard -21, transition into nss -6
66B on guard -2
66A on guard -2, transition into gs 10
44A on guard -12
3A on guard -20
BB on guard -8
66K on guard - 16

This is all i'll put out for now.
 
why would you put 3A instead of 3AA lol.

thanks though. -8 for BB is pretty nice. 66K though....lol
 
Tiamat said:
why would you put 3A instead of 3AA lol.

thanks though. -8 for BB is pretty nice. 66K though....lol
Click to expand...
3AA is the same as 3A on block they're both -20. Here are a couple of other moves.

4K be on guard 10
33b be on guard -16
gs k be on guard 10
gs b on guard -9
gs k on guard -18
gs a on guard -16
wr a on guard -5
4a on guard 2
4bb on guard -14
1b on guard -16
66 a+b on guard -16
66 b+k on guard -8

That is pretty much it for the notable moves.
 
seeing lots of -16s so that's the threshold to consider unsafe? can list 3K, 1K and 2B+K BE on guard?
 
hteng said:
seeing lots of -16s so that's the threshold to consider unsafe? can list 3K, 1K and 2B+K BE on guard?
Click to expand...

I sneakily stuck 3K frame data into the first post yesterday it's -10. natsu can AA him
 
Tiamat said:
I sneakily stuck 3K frame data into the first post yesterday it's -10. natsu can AA him
Click to expand...
Yea this really sucks. For the most part you either have to hit right at the tip of the hitbox or pray to god the pushback saves your hide.
 
Hey Fame96, can you get us the frame data for NM's quick close range attacks, guard, normal hit, and counter hit, impact/startup and any other useful tidbits in the guide? It's probably the biggest thing that is affecting most NM's transitioning from SCIV to the SCV version.

K
6K
1K
2A
FC A
3K
6B
66K
4K
WR B
WR K
 
Schneider-X said:
Hey Fame96, can you get us the frame data for NM's quick close range attacks, guard, normal hit, and counter hit, impact/startup and any other useful tidbits in the guide? It's probably the biggest thing that is affecting most NM's transitioning from SCIV to the SCV version.

K
6K
1K
2A
FC A
3K
6B
66K
4K
WR B
WR K
Click to expand...
Ok i gotta rush this so i can go to school tomorrow. If i miss anything i'll be back on tomorrow at around 4pm est.

k on guard -8, on hit 2, impact 13
6k on guard -8, on hit 4, impact 14
1k on guard -14, on hit -2 (disgusting), impact 15
2a on guard -14, on hit -4, impact 18
FC a on guard -14, on hit -4, impact 19
3k on guard -10, on hit 2, impact 15
6b on guard -12, on hit 4, impact 16
66k on guard -16, on hit 2, impact 15 -_-
4k on guard -14, on hit 2, impact 27
4kk on guard -6
wr b on guard -22, impact 16
wr b to nss on guard -3
wr k on guard -14, on hit 0

I am absolutly disgusted by all this -15 and more but i am willing to endure it and hopefully make some of this moves a little bit safer.


P.S- Sorry i couldn't find the data on counter hits i'll see what i can do until another nightmare player gets the guide.
 
Impact, guard, hit, counter hit

K: i13, -8, 2, 2
6K: i14, -8, +4, kd
1K: i15, -14, -2, -1
2A: i18, -14, -4, 0
FC A: i19, -14, -4, 0
3K: i15, -10, 2, 2
6B: i16, -12, 4, stun
66K: i15, -16, 2, stun
4K: i17, -14, 2, 2
ws K: i14, -16, 0, 0
6A: i15

3B: i21

1K is so bad on ch now >< Noticed on Sieg but didnt know how much exactly.
ill be updating my data regularly. need to catch some sleep now
 
Sp1d3r said:
66k wasn't really that amazing in 4 at higher level play. It was unsafe then too. Atleast now there is a quick KND on normal hit. It pushes them pretty far back too, giving you more zone control and giving them less. There's a lot more risk associated with this move than in 4, yes, but you shouldn't be whoring this move out anyway
Click to expand...

Lol are you on diddly crack? TC and 6 frames, yes it was really really fucking good. People just preferred 11K because that's a more girly move. Anyways 66K on CH near wall = Splat. 66K CH - W! - GS A - 4KK - W! - WR (B) - NSS A+B - 66B/2A+B That doesn't work on SCV now because the whole GS attacks are miles slower. You can't 66K CH - W! - GS A. It's just.... SOO SLOW. They nerfed him big time with the GS BS. Only thing that makes him mildly better is the CE.
 
I'm actually with Sp1d3r on this one, 66K was pretty crappy in SC4. It was his fastest TC yes, but risk vs reward on it was bad, linear, bad range, etc.

I think NM's 3K is a good move in this game even though it's -10 on guard. +2 on normal hit and it tracks very well
 
Someone mentioned doing 1K ~ CE. That might be the new way of thinking with these "bad frames". Even if the frame window for CE isn’t great that shouldn’t mean that the CE is bad or useless. It just means I’m being predictable with my strategy. Also I’d like it if people would start looking at Nightmare in more creative ways rather than seeing bad frame data and complaining about it. Complaining about stuff is scrubby and unproductive. This game provides lots of different tools so lets get creative
 
Well there are some valid complaints (why is WS K like that lol) but there's nothing we can do about the frame data itself. We just have to find ways to play that minimize risks.

EDIT: Well this is officially the first game where 33B6 is better on block than 66K6.

GS transition ranking
GSB6 < 66K6 < 66A6 < 33B6

surprised that 33B6 is the strongest on block...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back