Freebies!

shauno

shauno

[09] Warrior
One complaint about Talim is that she doesn't punish well on block. While that is true to some extent, that doesn't mean that she can't punish at all. So I thought it'd be useful to make a list of attacks from other characters that Talim can block and punish with a KD or juggle for free.

Can you guys help? If so, please confirm it in practice mode before posting; don't just simply guess (besides frame data, remember that range may be an issue). I'll keep this first post updated with the correct info.

This is a listing of her KD/juggle attacks with which Talim can punish an opponent on block. I'll put the opponent's unsafe moves below the underlined punishers:
33A
1A+B
WS A
66A
236B
44AA
66B
6A+B
WS A+B
22B
44K
33B:6B

========================================


ALGOL
1A+B
- 3AA

WS A
- 1A
- 1K

66A
- 3AA
- 623B
- 1K
- 66BA

44AA
- 623B
- 66BA

66B
- 623B

~~~

APPRENTICE

~~~

AMY


~~~

ASTAROTH


~~~

CASSANDRA

~~~

CERVANTES


~~~

HILDE


~~~

IVY


~~~

KILIK
66A
- 3BB
- 22B
- B+K
- B+K 6B
- B+K 6B 41236B

236B
- B+K 6B 41236B

44AA
- 3BB
- B+K
- B+K 6B
- B+K 6B 41236B

66B
- aBB
- 22 AAA
- B+K 6B
- B+K 6B 41236B

6A+B
- aBB

WS A+B
- 22 AAA

~~~

LIZARDMAN


~~~

MAXI


~~~

MITSURUGI
33A
- 2KB
- 6B
- 33B
- MST KA

1A+B
- 2KB
- 6B
- 33B
- bA
- RLC A
- MST KA

WS A
- 66BB
- 33B
- MST KA
- FC 1A+B

66A
- 2KB
- RLC A
- 33B
- kB
- MST KA
- FC 1A+B

236B
- 2KB
- RLC A
- MST KA

44AA
- 2KB
- 33B
- MST KA

66B
- 2KB
- 66BB
- 33B
- MST KA

6A+B
- 2KB
- MST KA

WS A+B
- MST KA

22B
- MST KA

44K
- 2KB
- 33B
- MST KA
- FC 1A+B

33B:6B
- 1KB
- 33B
- MST KA

~~~

NIGHTMARE


~~~

RAPHAEL


~~~

ROCK


~~~

SEONG MI-NA


~~~

SETSUKA


~~~

SIGFRIED


~~~

SOPHITIA


~~~

TAKI


~~~

TALIM


~~~

TIRA


~~~

VOLDO


~~~

XIANGHUA


~~~

YOSHIMITSU

1A+B
1AAAA
3B
3A+B
33 B+K A+B K

WS A
214A
FC 3K
REF A

66A
3AB
3B
3A+B

236B
6K2K
DRG K

44AA
3AB

WS A+B
DRG K

44K
FC 3K


~~~

YUN-SEONG


~~~

ZASALAMEL
 
Your use of "typos" (plural) is an error if there is in fact only one ;).
 
Talim Punishment

I was actually planning on making a similar thread.. but I prefer a slightly different format, with more simple punishers than just knockdowns and juggles included.

Opponent's Move
--> Talim's Punisher (* = strict timing)

ALGOL

aB (-14)
--> AA
--> 1B

3AA (-17)
--> 66A*
--> 1A+B

1A (-17)
--> ws A (close range only)

6BBB (-16)
--> BB

623B (-20)
--> 66A
--> 66B*
--> 44AA

3BB (-16)
--> ws B

6KK (-16)
--> ws B

2K_FC 2K (-14)
--> ws B

1K (-18)
--> ws A
--> 66A*

11A (-16)
--> wsB

66BA (-19)
--> 66A*
--> 44AA*

33B (-14)
-->AA
-->1B

11K (-16)
--> ws B


KILIK

aB,B (-24)
--> 66B
--> 6A+B
--> 2B+K to evade the second hit (to your right only)

1A (-16)
--> ws B

22_88A,A,A (-29)
--> 66B
--> ws A+B

22_88A,B (-15)
--> BB

3BB (-19)
--> 66A
--> 44AA

1B (-16)
--> BB

22_88B (-17)
--> BB
--> 66A*

2K_FC 2K (-14)
--> ws B

4K,B (-14)
--> ws B

22_88K,B (-15)
--> BB

1_3A+B (-16)
--> ws B

1A+B (-16)
--> ws B

B+K (-21)
--> 66A
--> 44AA

B+K, 6B (-21)
--> 2_8B+K to your left after blocking B+K -> WC AA_B:B
--> 66B
--> 66A
--> 44AA

B+K, 6B, 41236B (-25)
--> 2_8B+K to your left after blocking B+K -> WC AA_B:B
--> 236B
--> 66B
--> 66A
--> 44AA

2B+K (-14)
--> ws B

BS K (-15)
--> BB


YOSHIMITSU

3A,B (-21)
--> 66A
--> 44AA

1AAAA (All Versions of it) (-17)
--> 3B,A
--> 1A+B

4AAAA (All Versions of it) (-14)
--> AA
--> 1B

214A (-17)
--> ws A

bA (-14)
--> K

3B (-17)
--> 66A*
--> 3B,A
--> 1A+B

1B (-14)
--> K

6K,2K (more than -25)
--> 236B

2K_FC K (-14)
--> ws B

4KB (-14)
--> K

FC 3K (-22~-23)
--> wsA
--> 44K*

3A+B (-18)
--> 3B,A
--> 1A+B
--> 66A*

3B+KB (and 3B+K:B) (-16)
--> ws B

9B+KK (-13)
--> AA

33_99B+KA+BK (-18)
--> 1A+B
--> 3BA
--> BB

REF A
--> ws A

MED teleport moves (MED A,B,K)
--> 4B+K -> WL options

DRG K (-23)
--> 236B
--> ws A+B

I'll add more characters to this post later
 
Hm never knew Talim could punish Sophie after 66B. Then again I don't know much about Talim past her basics
 
Actually that's a template for using Talim's 66B where possible... I was planning to fill in the moves afterwards under it. I can see how it is confusing, so I'll erase the templates for now and only leave researched data, adding more as we go along. I've done quite a bit on Mitsu already (BTW, 66A is one of the new punishers I was planning to add like on Oof's list), and I'll update once I have my notes with me.

Oof, I left off the poke punishers and stance dodging so as not to make the list to unwieldy... potentially that's over a hundered moves to list. It is still probably a good idea since it is a "freebie" thread, but for now I've been focusing on KDs and juggle starters. Maybe in the end I'll list it in sections for each character: KD/juggle starters (Group A), poke punishers (Group B), Evade and retaliate (Group C).
 
Lookin forward to the Taki one; I wanna give one over here some pain (haha).
 
Added Yoshi to my post, also made the KD/launch punishers red so that you can tell them apart more easily.
 
I lost my Mitsu list so I had to do it over. I'm editing it into the first post now (I'll add Oof's new data tomorrow).

I've also included some more Talim KD moves to keep track of:
44K for right side ROs
22B launcher
3B:6B knock down, which gives a free 2A+B

EDIT: Oof's Yoshi's datat is now up.
 
Thanks alot shauno, but don't you think that list is a bit backwards compared to the others?

Also, do you mean 3BA or 33B:6B? And you can use WS A after a blocked 2KA? I find that hard to believe. I'll have to test it.
 
I only listed launchers/KDs so 33B:6B is correct (fixed). Blocking 2KA (you meant 2KB) does not give a WS A... I mistakenly put that there.

As for the format, I guess it is preference. I think it is easier to read when there are less categories, so using the punsher's options as the category source makes it easier to see all the moves that each one is free against. When the list is full for instance, I can easily zip to any character and instantly know which moves give me a 236B launcher.

I may restrict the list even more by including the main free attacks instead of all of them. I mean, who would choose 1A+B over 236B against Mitsu's blocked 2KB? So removing 2KB from 1A+B's grouping keeps the list very concise and to the point, but I would be careful to keep stuff like a free 44K (rings out) or WS A+B (mega wall splat combo starter) if it has strategic options. With the list kept as short as possible while still having the best info on the character, it would then be easy to do the same with free pokes under each character's name as well (like the data Oof has started listing).
 
I was gonna make another thread for this, but then I saw this one collecting dust. Just letting y'all know I'm currently working on a punishment guide for Talim in the wiki. We know she's not great at block punishing, but if nothing else it can help with defensive tactics a bit.

So, if anyone here even still looks at this SA, I'll let you know when it's completed.
 
ZeroEffect317 said:
Aight guys, Talim punishment guide is pretty much done. I still have to do Yoda's, but that'll get done later. You probably won't be able to punish him much at all. But anyways, go here: http://www.8wayrun.com/wiki/Talim to find the punishment guide.
Click to expand...

Wow, don't know how i missed this. Fantastic work Zero, great contribution and hopefully all your effort will help out the dwindling number of talims in the world :)
 
i have made some test against Liz last night:

the best option against his WS KK is to WC on his left between the 1st and the 2nd K and punish with B:B
if he does the 3rd K it also punish but take less damage (30)
step don't work only WC

another solution is to do 1A+B between the 1st and the 2nd talim goes under Liz so:
-if liz doesn't do the 3rd you can't punish they are BT together and it's mind game for both
-if Liz does the 3rd Talim has free BT B combo

Against Liz 3B:
at max range => he is safe..... sad :(
at mid range => 6K 18dmg +2
at close range => 6B is better 22dmg and +10 with BT pressing

Against Liz stance after a LC A hit:
WL A beat all his mix up (i haven't test against backdash)
11_77B beat all his mix up (i haven't test against backdash and auto GI)
if the backdash can beat WL A (need to test) the best way is to mix with this 2 option cause 11_77 B must touch Liz even with the backdash
if the auto GI beat 11_77 B (need to test) WL A couldn't
conclusion: after LC A hit the risk/reward is for Talim with 2 SAFES options ^^

i hope i haven't made a mistake cause it was late when i made this training
i'll post other stuff soon
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back