Good moves you might not be using!

Pernicious-Soul

Pernicious-Soul

[10] Knight
Alpha has a lot good moves that don't get much mention. Post up any moves you feel that are under utilized and how you apply them.

WS/214a - I hardly see any mention of this move yet I can't play without it. A 17 frame, TC, step killing move that's only -4. This move also has better range than you'd expect.

2141k - this move gets some love but needs more. You can't block this on reaction and has very good range. It's -2 on hit but no one wants to attack you on hit with your JFT locked and loaded.

1k - I use this move when someone is trying to force a mixup. Let's you evade lows and not be thrown all in one.

66k - TJ mid that's safe and does good gauge damage.
 
2B+K. I don't know what it is about this move but people get hit all the time, and they don't expect that it's only -2 on block. I don't see many other Alphas use it.
 
2b+k also hits grounded making it even better. I need to use this more myself. What about 22k/2362k any use for this move?
 
I'm too new to aPat so I prolly shouldn't even post here but...I kinda like 1K myself. Catches people off guard and has some thump.
 
Any input is much appreciated from new or old aPat players. Feel free to post up anything you feel that will be helpful.
 
4B is atrocious, don't ever use it.

Useless aPat moves IMO:
-11A
-2A+B
-44A
-44A+B
-66A+B
-6AA
-4A
-6B
-44B

Does anyone know the frames 66K and 1K start tech jumping?
 
I disagree for some.

- 11A is pretty good actually, with a built in 236~2BA combo that set up RO or wall combos.
- 6A(A) is pretty good too and has deceiptive range
- 6B has good push back.

Some move people forget :
- 22A (hitconfirm) A : good antistep, good range, decent damage, can be hitconfirmed.
- 8A+B A : good antstep (not full antistep but you need to setup it), good antibackdash, kinda safe (BT A+B can avoid lot of stuff, and you can step or block).
- AA because even though Alpha's AA is crappy, it is still a AA.

2B+K is a staple move and should be used : JG setup, step setup, frame trap, and very good tech trap on hit.
Same for WS A/214A. It is in my top10 list btw.

Avoid 1K. 1K sucks since it is unsafe. Use 8K or 9K instead. Better TJ frames, safe, can track.
 
Maxou said:
I disagree for some.

- 11A is pretty good actually, with a built in 236~2BA combo that set up RO or wall combos.
- 6A(A) is pretty good too and has deceiptive range
- 6B has good push back.
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I'm surprised you think 11A is good. I can never get it to land because of how slow it is. As for 6AA, that also feels slow and seems outclassed by 33_99A and WS A. I might look into it more though, because I almost never use it. For 6B, I'll admit I pretty much never use it except by accident, lol, but once again it just seems like there are better options.

Dragonfall said:
66A+B is very good. Safe, hits ground, breaks guard. Useful in forced block setups.
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It's too slow and linear to be used outside of very specific situations, and even then, it is much better to do a throw/mid/1A:A:A mixup for the chance to do good raw damage, instead of just some guard damage that might not even lead to anything. Think of it this way; you can make them somehow block 66A+B eight times (His frame data in the wiki says 7, but it's actually 8), for the opportunity to get 120 damage after the guard crush, or you could go for the throw/mid mixup in any of the situations you would have used 66A+B, and you have a good chance (Especially if you can make good reads) of doing 80-100+ damage from a throw or 66B/1B:B. So basically, would you rather have eight opportunities to do 80+ damage, or one opportunity to do 120 damage?

To contribute more to the topic, does anyone think agB has some sort of hidden usefulness that people just haven't found yet? I've been trying to find situations to use this move recently, just because of the absurd damage and tech traps you can get off of it. I haven't been very successful just yet though, lol.
 
I'd still rather just have the repeated chances to do 80-100 damage, lol. I've found that a lot of the people I play against don't really play that differently when their gauge is flashing red. More JG and GI attempts, but that's about it.

If it works for you, great, but I'd rather play my Pyrrha Omega if I wanted to get people's gauge in the red, lol.
 
Paragon049 said:
I'm surprised you think 11A is good. I can never get it to land because of how slow it is. As for 6AA, that also feels slow and seems outclassed by 33_99A and WS A. I might look into it more though, because I almost never use it. For 6B, I'll admit I pretty much never use it except by accident, lol, but once again it just seems like there are better options.

(...)

To contribute more to the topic, does anyone think agB has some sort of hidden usefulness that people just haven't found yet? I've been trying to find situations to use this move recently, just because of the absurd damage and tech traps you can get off of it. I haven't been very successful just yet though, lol.
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11A is good because of TC frames and antistep properties. Use 236~1A of course.
6AA is good because 6AA has huuuuge range. Deceiptive one too. And 6A is safe. Fear of the CH follow up when you whiff 6A allow for good spacing setup or depending on opponent it can make them freeze. You don't use it as an antistep tool. You use it as a "don't come close to me" tool.
6B is good on block because of the pushback. Faster than 66B too for a pushback tool too.

agB has no hidden usefulness whatsoever. Use it in wall combo or don't use it at all. It isn't even good when you step a move because it is slow and SC5 hitbox are bugged sometimes so you may whiff a i23 -23 move....
I dislike 66A+B. Too slow, too linear, even though you can set it up on forceblock situations there's often better things to do. SC4 66A+B was way better.
 
I haven't gotten agB to connect in a combo on Xbox LIVE yet, but offline it's amazing to combo after 11_77B/2361B. It sets up to be followed by 214 3aB, and has devastating RO abilities. Also, agB has tech-crouch properties, no? I've evaded highs/grabs with this, and by being a pretty good launcher, I can either follow up with another agB followed by JFT, or just a JFT, or even just bA.

Aside from re-launching the opponent higher after agB, allowing a wider window for follow-ups, I'm not really sure what the advantages to JFagB are over agB. I'm assuming more tech-crouch frames, and slightly more damage - haven't bothered to figure out yet, especially since JFagB is the only JF I'm not consistent with yet (offline). That's hard on a default controller!

I've also found 2364B+K to be a good punisher. It can be buffered like JFT, but stuns to lead to a nasty combo. I like using this with my back to the edge sometimes. Though, admittedly, I'm not sure how negative this is on block. To the arena!
 
A:G:B i believe is 2 frames faster than none JF. Double JF allows different combos I believe. Someone might need to confirm I can't remember.

44b+k/2364b+k is -14 on block, BE version is +2. I love this move and use the BE too punish for huge damage. Very good!
 
Pernicious-Soul said:
A:G:B i believe is 2 frames faster than none JF. Double JF allows different combos I believe. Someone might need to confirm I can't remember.

44b+k/2364b+k is -14 on block, BE version is +2. I love this move and use the BE too punish for huge damage. Very good!
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2364b+kA+B+K actually stuns for significantly more frames. It does 10 less damage than without BE, but that much difference in advantage, plus leading to more damaging combos is kosher with me. :D
 
agB,a :g :B,2143a:B does 116 damage and has decent RO properties. It doesn't set up for double JFT, though. I've noticed it has to be a JFT to hit after a double agB, but if the second agB is JF, regular twister will hit for 107 damage. bA didn't connect for me, even on double JF agB. I'm gonna assume, however, that doing combos with agB online is (for the most part) pointless, since I can't get a :g :B to connect after anything online.

Is there a list of moves that are unsafe to use online while remaining fairly safe offline? (I mean in general, since I know playing on a small college connection is worse than the occasional lag at mommy's house).
 
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