IDEA: Online Amateur Tournament

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Playing "good" players or players who are better than you isn't necessary to get better. If you focus on mastering your fundamentals and match ups, it applies to every battle. The edge that playing "good" players has is that your opponents would likely be a lot better at making you more aware of the holes in your defense and the limited applications of your offense. In other words, they are better testers of how solid you are. After that, it's up to the player to adjust. You could still hone these basic skills very well by playing weaker players. And you could play "good" players all the time and never improve.

Also, TiZ's definition for mid-level player is, indeed, poorly defined, which I knew from the beginning, but I also knew it wasn't a completely formulated idea at the time; it was just a general definition to explain his vision for this. I thought his definition effectively accomplished that. However, you'll definitely want to specify whether you are attempting to define mid-level player or whether you are attempting to define mid-level player under some criteria that a person will be considered mid-level for this tourney. I think some of the feedback may be based on a misunderstanding. If it's the latter, I don't see any real issues. If it's the former, it's guaranteed to create debate. I'm sure that after the feedback he gets, he'll fix it, if he still plans on getting this going.
 
This wasn't supposed to turn into a carebear hugfest. As much as I do enjoy those, this really isn't the place for it. All I wanted was for the two people trolling me to go away so that we can focus on refining the idea. If you figure out a way to critique me without being insulting about it... well, route your critiques through someone else because I'm tired of seeing your salt-shakery and disdain-biased faces.


My definition for a mid-level player is kind of irrelevent. Amateur leagues and amateur tournaments in the real world don't bother making definitions on what constitutes high-level and what constitutes mid-level, or whatever. However... there is an edge they have that we don't.

Professional leagues are differentiated by higher stakes and higher rewards. When you know you're good enough to go for the gold, you don't continue to dick around in the amateur leagues just because you know you're the best... you go and get dat money. There's also a sort of cost to participating in amateur. You have to, well, go do it. Even if you're a colossal dick who wants to just go wipe the floor with a bunch of weaker players for free, you're not gonna do it unless the event is really close. It's highly unlikely that you'll have a highly skilled colossal dick conviently located very near to an amateur event.

That's why in real world competition, they don't have to bother trying to keep high-level players out. High-level players don't want to come, of their own accord. But the investment cost when it comes to an online tournament is basically nil. Every tournament is really close to where you are. And if you want to ruin some noobs' days, you just sign on and go do it. This is why in this case, we have to make an effort to keep highly skilled players away. I can't find any real-world precedent of amateur leagues that place restrictions on who can participate. If any of you can, absolutely post it here. It would help us flesh this out more sensibly.

As of right now, I feel content to stick with a restriction rule that disables top 8 at majors and top 25% at onlines to enter. I'm still waiting for proposals to improve this criteria or even replace it entirely.

Otherwise, I will put a sign-up sheet up on Friday in a new thread. I'll take signups for both consoles.
 
Sweet!! Can we also find high lvl players would give up thr time to watch our games and offer tips too?
It would be very pleasent to walk away from this all with tips and things we need to foucs on when we go back to the lab
 
I don't think it's possible to setup a tournament like this and keep people like me (i.e. good, but not really known) from steamrolling everyone. Besides, the best way to get better is to get your ass beat by players better than yourself.
 
friend2luck said:
Sweet!! Can we also find high lvl players would give up thr time to watch our games and offer tips too? It would be very pleasent to walk away from this all with tips and things we need to foucs on when we go back to the lab
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That's a good idea. Feel free.

Paragon049 said:
I don't think it's possible to setup a tournament like this and keep people like me (i.e. good, but not really known) from steamrolling everyone.
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I can't keep all of the vagrants out, but something is better than nothing.

Besides, the best way to get better is to get your ass beat by players better than yourself.
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I disagree. When the gap between two players passes a certain size, there's nothing to learn from the thrashings. You just leave the match feeling like you could not possibly have done anything at all right. It's good to fight people better than you, sure. But what would a newbie to the game learn from figthing Oofmatic, for example?
 
TiZ said:
I disagree. When the gap between two players passes a certain size, there's nothing to learn from the thrashings. You just leave the match feeling like you could not possibly have done anything at all right. It's good to fight people better than you, sure. But what would a newbie to the game learn from figthing Oofmatic, for example?
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I disagree sir. You can learn from any match you partake in. Throw out a move and get punished, you now know to not throw that move out randomly because it's unsafe. You learn the properties of your attacks, like tip range, how much they track, pushback, etc. You'll learn to recognize animations of slower or more choreographed attacks, and the general attack range of your opponent's character/their playstyle/speed, etc. If an opponent uses an attack that you think is unsafe, try using one of your faster attacks and see if you get a hit in. You'll learn what range to stay at, and recognize exploitable patterns in your opponent's gameplan.

Among many other things. The only matches you won't learn from are against people who are just mashing with no regard for anything. The thing that causes you not to learn from a match is your mentality of "Damn, I'm getting thrashed", which you will dwell on throughout the match instead of actually looking for an opening or trying to learn something new.
 
Certain vigorous people may not have the skills to beat top players, but what separates them from simply being an amateur is they refuse to be one. If an amateur beats all the amateurs consistently, he's no longer an amateur and needs tougher opponents to test his wits and limits. In any given situation, no one remains an amateur forever unless they hang around amateurs too much and such.
 
Mr.MeatHook said:
I disagree sir. You can learn from any match you partake in. Throw out a move and get punished, you now know to not throw that move out randomly because it's unsafe. You learn the properties of your attacks, like tip range, how much they track, pushback, etc. You'll learn to recognize animations of slower or more choreographed attacks, and the general attack range of your opponent's character/their playstyle/speed, etc. If an opponent uses an attack that you think is unsafe, try using one of your faster attacks and see if you get a hit in. You'll learn what range to stay at, and recognize exploitable patterns in your opponent's gameplan.
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Yes, this is very possible. Much easier against defensive, patient opponents than opponents who can force their will upon you and aggrieve without reprieve. Funny thing I mentioned Oofmatic. Now that I think about it, he's proably the best guy to learn against with this in consideration, because in my experience, he's fairly passive. I'm sure he can aggress, but I'm not good enough to where he needs to do anything other than stay away and wait for me to fuck up... but that's precisely the point.

The thing that causes you not to learn from a match is your mentality of "Damn, I'm getting thrashed", which you will dwell on throughout the match instead of actually looking for an opening or trying to learn something new.
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This is a very good point. If I'm getting just completely thrashed, I'll very quickly just get upset and frustrated. I'll get wrapped up in that frustration, desperately try to accomplish anything (and almost invariably fail since I'm too upset to think right), and find myself unable to take away anything from the match afterward. I wonder what I could do about that. If I could flip a switch and simply stop doing that, I would.
 
How is it away from you if some people arrange something like this? Let them have their online amateur tournaments and you have your tournaments and everyone improves / is happy.

People can't have their own tournaments, only offline tournaments? Enough with the trolling sons.
 
Yeah I think I had a change of heart. I just got through doing a set with someone who's really good against me and even though he thrashed me (6-1) I learned a lot from my mistakes from the match-up. So yeah I do think that it's better to face someone who's more experienced.

However, I still don't think this tourney is a bad idea at all. I think of it as another learning method that could work out better for others. There's always alternatives afterall.
 
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