Is Voldo Top Tier?

BatousaiNori

[10] Knight
I'm sure everybody at one point and time has seen the tier thread. I don't want to go through all that clutter so I figured I'd come right to the source of Voldo players and ask 2 questions:

1) Is Voldo really Top Tier?

2) If he IS top tier, why is he top tier? And if you disagree, what is he missing?

(Ok that's 3 questions, but still)
 
If you forget the bullshit of other characters... Hilde's Doom Combo, Kilik's Asura Dance, Algol's Bubbles... Voldo is who I would put as #1 in the tier lists. He has punish game, speed, damage, range, priority, is extremely safe, and an amazing BT A+B that auto-GIs everything. At my tournaments, there is an average SEVEN people who use Voldo, and that number is rising... The whole system of the game seems to be skewed in his favor. While the other 3 characters are top-tier becaus they have a single "bullshit" situation, Voldo just has it in the general design of his moveset...

There is something about SC4 that I don't like... the whole idea of characters being at disadvantage on hit so often. However, with Voldo, it is rare. He is usually at advantage so often; and if he isn't, he has some sort of movement that nullifies the disadvantage. I watch a lot of people play Voldo and there is a single aspect they all share; almost all of them keep on attacking at all times. They eat damage, they attack, you block them, they attack. They are always attacking; because its just something that Voldo can do. Very rare do I see "smart" Voldo players.

I think Voldo can easily be fixed by adding 2-3 frames to the recovery of ALL of his moves. Then he will be fine; they you will actually see people playing Voldo in a smarter manner. You'll start seeing Voldos worrying about safety and whatnot; because right now, they don't.
 
Jaxel there are a few things you got wrong there... sweeping broad generalizations and rules of thumb taken too far make you not realize that there are risks to everything... while voldo has answers for alot of bnb options after alot of things hit or block... but when you take a look at his evade options they are all unsafe if you want to guess into it. So when you change your mindset to garner your damage from defensive options like step or twitch ducking in an intelligent manner or just block and watch him use like a 2A+K evade and hit him after it when hes in recovery... oh and your broad sweeping generalized answer makes me cry because I think when you see people defending smarter you will force the voldo player to play smarter... when you eat moves in the face why would they change?

As far as top tier I think he is... but well see how it goes when people know how to play the matchup well. I think his biggest strength is like hilde where you need to play against him unlike how you play against other characters... well sometimes yes and sometimes no and knowing when makes the matchup hard to read and I think that voldo is god tier when you dont know how to play him and when you do hes still high tier but to what degree well see later
 
Voldo is top tier. He is great at everything except ROing to his back. There are things that other characters do better than he does, but his lack of weaknesses make him superb.
 
Bibulus, I never said anything about using his "defensive" movements... his "defensive" movements suck ass. I'm talking about his "OFFENSIVE" movements. A large part of his moveset makes things magically miss him and whiff constantly.

Besides, it doesn't matter if 10 or 20 of his moves suck ass... what matters is that his top 10 moves are superb. Most of a characters moveset sucks ass, what matters is how a character's best moves work; and Voldo's best moves are simply amazing and they work together so well. He has amazing lows and amazing mids that just go so well together. If your 10 best moves are all mids; chances are, you're not one of the better characters. But if your 10 best moves are a good variety of mids and lows... your high auto-GIs all non-kick highs and mids, and you have a move that backsteps and is TC-mid (although unsafe)... you've suddenly got REAL ULTIMATE POWER.
 
I've been out of SC for about 2 months. So of course, this game to me is still considered new and I came back to see that Voldo/Setsuka/Hilde are considered top. I thought everybody didn't consider him top, now they do so was wondering why.

Can you guys go into more detailed specifics? Best offensive moves, setups, etc? What makes him so great? I'm not saying everybody is wrong, I just don't see it. Great info so far BTW
 
1. Voldo is Not #1. He is surely Top Tier and Top 5 But not #1

2. Voldo IS NOT EXTREMELY SAFE!!! Its his ability for his more punishable having great range and pushback. However....any character can punish and/or interrupt him if they have knowledge of him.

3. Hilde is not Top Tier

4. And there are so many reasons to call Voldo Top Tier....6:6B stuff...BS A+B auto gi...Stance shifts anywhere...but his main reason for being Top Tier is....

2A+B!!

5. Voldo can do damage, can play at range, can punish DECENTLY (but not superbly), has a good throw game, decent (but not great) lows...etc....but as we all know...his ability to deal 25% Damage and damage the soul gauge all at the same time makes him beastly.

6. The reason that people are struggling against Voldo is simply he is like a new character. Firstly nobody played him (therefore no one against him) in previous Soul Caliburs. Aside from Aris?? MfVoldo?? Enkindu...I can't think of any other main Voldo players of past. And that with his new and improved version is deadly compared to the rest of the cast...and you have a Tourney Winner.

7. Ivy is #1

8. Voldo is still a great character....only knowledge of his options will set you free.

Hope this enlightens everyone somewhat. Mostly everyone is jumping the bandwagon because of ME!!!! Hell I still get people msg-ing me for voldo stuff. What can I say....

Hahah jokes...if anything I jumped on the Voldo Bandwagon in SC3....but I digress....
 
Mostly everyone is jumping the bandwagon because of ME!!!! Hell I still get people msg-ing me for voldo stuff. What can I say....
I've been doing really good in San Antonio w/Cervantes. I've gotten at least 2nd place in every tournament, but Cervantes/Astaroth is tough for Cervantes IMO. I have noticed you have been doing REALLY good and since you always played Taki in SC3 and even though we never played, I've been told you're kind of aggressive. So, naturally, I'm EXTREMELY curious as to how you're doing so well, and not only that, you've been consistent also. So something you're doing is working, and props for being consistent, that's not easy to do considering Canada has a pretty good squad.

Yeah, I'm going to be starting to main both Cervantes and Voldo so any tips would be cool man. He seems very fun to play, but I heard after the original patch he wasn't that good anymore? Again, I've been VERY inactive since the beginning of December. So now I'm getting back into it and seeing Voldo EVERYWHERE and I'm baffled by it.

I also fully believe Ivy is excellent. I agree w/that. And yes, I am a full believer in 2A+B. I'm still trying to figure out WHEN to attack w/Voldo (this is a 12hr Voldo I'm working on, so it's terrible right now) because he seems to get interrupted quite a bit, but that's probably cause I'm trash w/him.
 
Hilde isn' top tier? Ivy is #1?


You're gonna have to back these statements up, because they're really outrageous.
 
If you forget the bullshit of other characters... Hilde's Doom Combo, Kilik's Asura Dance, Algol's Bubbles... Voldo is who I would put as #1 in the tier lists. He has punish game, speed, damage, range, priority, is extremely safe, and an amazing BT A+B that auto-GIs everything. At my tournaments, there is an average SEVEN people who use Voldo, and that number is rising... The whole system of the game seems to be skewed in his favor. While the other 3 characters are top-tier becaus they have a single "bullshit" situation, Voldo just has it in the general design of his moveset...

There is something about SC4 that I don't like... the whole idea of characters being at disadvantage on hit so often. However, with Voldo, it is rare. He is usually at advantage so often; and if he isn't, he has some sort of movement that nullifies the disadvantage. I watch a lot of people play Voldo and there is a single aspect they all share; almost all of them keep on attacking at all times. They eat damage, they attack, you block them, they attack. They are always attacking; because its just something that Voldo can do. Very rare do I see "smart" Voldo players.

I think Voldo can easily be fixed by adding 2-3 frames to the recovery of ALL of his moves. Then he will be fine; they you will actually see people playing Voldo in a smarter manner. You'll start seeing Voldos worrying about safety and whatnot; because right now, they don't.

He just summed everything right there.

TL;DR - Voldo is God!
 
Hilde isn' top tier? Ivy is #1?


You're gonna have to back these statements up, because they're really outrageous.
It's FAR from bullshit. Here's the problem: Ivy is hard to play, straight up. I consider myself a top player. Call it cocky, whatever, but I'm only saying it to make a point: I have Link who lives in my state. This dude shows up at tournaments and rapes people. I fully believed Cervantes was the best until I ran into him. She's nothing short of amazing. Why ISN'T she the best?

Best throws in the game (harder break window than Astas)
Best range
Can be played very safe
INSANE guard crush potential
Best step (Again, I have good spacing and all, but Link moves around w/Ivy like she's a Marvel char.)

Now before you say "Ok, that's just one guy", it's not. A couple of the guys here w/VERY LITTLE Ivy experience were doing very well w/her for a while. If you have good mechanics and are technical, Ivy is for you and she has almost no weaknesses. I'll debate this ALL day w/anybody, but w/out getting off the subject, Voldo seems to be top tier after playing one of my friends about 120 matches tonight:)

Hilde, I really don't have a comment for. From what I'm heard, she's a lot of gimmicks, but since I never ran into even a DECENT Hilde player, I don't want to sound ignorant so I'll keep quiet on her. Ivy however, hands down, is top tier.
 
It's FAR from bullshit. Here's the problem: Ivy is hard to play, straight up. I consider myself a top player. Call it cocky, whatever, but I'm only saying it to make a point: I have Link who lives in my state. This dude shows up at tournaments and rapes people. I fully believed Cervantes was the best until I ran into him. She's nothing short of amazing. Why ISN'T she the best?

Best throws in the game (harder break window than Astas)
Best range
Can be played very safe
INSANE guard crush potential
Best step (Again, I have good spacing and all, but Link moves around w/Ivy like she's a Marvel char.)

Now before you say "Ok, that's just one guy", it's not. A couple of the guys here w/VERY LITTLE Ivy experience were doing very well w/her for a while. If you have good mechanics and are technical, Ivy is for you and she has almost no weaknesses. I'll debate this ALL day w/anybody, but w/out getting off the subject, Voldo seems to be top tier after playing one of my friends about 120 matches tonight:)

Hilde, I really don't have a comment for. From what I'm heard, she's a lot of gimmicks, but since I never ran into even a DECENT Hilde player, I don't want to sound ignorant so I'll keep quiet on her. Ivy however, hands down, is top tier.


Yeah I know you tried to pre-empt this, but I'm going to say it anyway: Linkrkc is Linkrkc. I'm sorry, but he's special. And yes, she does have weaknesses. Safety, lack of speed in CL/WP, no lows in CL, weak step in SW/WP.
 
Yeah I know you tried to pre-empt this, but I'm going to say it anyway: Linkrkc is Linkrkc. I'm sorry, but he's special. And yes, she does have weaknesses. Safety, lack of speed in CL/WP, no lows in CL, weak step in SW/WP.
LOL Link is a player, he's not the lord and savior, he's not a god. Notice he didn't really do that great in SC3? He dominated SC2 and is going to get 1st place at one of the TX regionals, no matter who comes down. Link is doing great w/Ivy and even admits she's very strong. He's just quiet about it. If you have no exposure to Ivy, you'll get dicked by a good player. If you have a little exposure, she gets BETTER cause of mixups.

If Ivy is stuck in one stance all, then yeah, she's just upper mid. If you see her in the hands of a true top player, you'll see what me/DINO and MANY top TX players (and outside of TX too, actually).

The problem is, the "1.03 tier thread", not many top players post in there. It's frustrating explaining a chars potential when 90% of the people have never seen a player who can truly rep that char. If you have ZERO good Ivy/Cervantes players, I can't possibly explain how good they are. Again, I have yet to run into ANY Hilde player so I can't comment, but I'm pretty damn sure there are VERY FEW really solid Ivy players out there, just like Cervantes.
 
I have played Voldo since SC2 and i must dissagree with Jaxel. Voldos defensive movement isn`t suck ass at all, for me it`s the one of the reason why he is in first 5 Top Tiers, evades can save you in situation where any other character can`t to a thing. The power of Voldo lies in variety of his techinques and good mixing. PREDICTABLE VOLDO = DEAD VOLDO
 
He is good.
6:6 B Punish :D
A+B
Moderate balance of safe and unsafe.
In SC3 Arcade V. he was good, I would put him up there with soph and Xiang, (6 Hit combos to follow up out of mantis stuns, give or take 7
This game has revamped a lot of stuff. I would have liked the sidestep B+K Stance Change he had, but can't always get what we want, right?
 
LOL Link is a player, he's not the lord and savior, he's not a god. Notice he didn't really do that great in SC3? He dominated SC2 and is going to get 1st place at one of the TX regionals, no matter who comes down. Link is doing great w/Ivy and even admits she's very strong. He's just quiet about it. If you have no exposure to Ivy, you'll get dicked by a good player. If you have a little exposure, she gets BETTER cause of mixups.

If Ivy is stuck in one stance all, then yeah, she's just upper mid. If you see her in the hands of a true top player, you'll see what me/DINO and MANY top TX players (and outside of TX too, actually).

The problem is, the "1.03 tier thread", not many top players post in there. It's frustrating explaining a chars potential when 90% of the people have never seen a player who can truly rep that char. If you have ZERO good Ivy/Cervantes players, I can't possibly explain how good they are. Again, I have yet to run into ANY Hilde player so I can't comment, but I'm pretty damn sure there are VERY FEW really solid Ivy players out there, just like Cervantes.

That's funny, I was just talking to link in javachat the other day. He told me that she can win, but isn't top tier and gets considerably worse against players who actually take the time to study her. I realize this is true with all characters, but it's especially true with Ivy. I don't think people realize how unsafe she is, and they fall for stupid gimmicks. I can't even believe how many people STILL don't shake the SE unblockable for example.

Cervantes is solid too, but I don't think he's top tier like Hilde, Voldo, or Amy.
 
I would love to think Ivy as #1, I surely put her as top 5. But i dunno. She has some issues. CL and WP are very unsafe. A good player can dominate you is you go into SE at a bad time. And she has little glitches that can fuck her royal like tracking and odd whiffs. If you can dominate back and forth between CL and SW i can see it. But if you get rushed while in WP your in deep shit.

Her SW gets insane once your comfortable pulling iCS since it opens the door up for her BRUTAL mid combos. Kinda hard to gauge...I play her only but i play her online and online she is definitely NOT top5. I guess I'll find out when I walk my SF4 TE stick to Evo 2009 this here with her.

But yeah, Ivy can present the illusion of broke to a lot of players if you don't know the combo escapes. I lost to a guy spamming all her shakable combos yesterday because lag wouldn't let me out. I felt like a n00b going wtf is this shit, stop hitting me, Ivy ist teh broken! I can rap people with CL A+BA+K all day...but will I EVER use this in competition...not unless i'm 100% positive that first A is gonna connect, since that thing will get you pwned on block. (iCS punish!).
 
Ok Jaxel... Stop crying about BS A+B and find out what you can do to beat it... Like you know Talim has 6B that can beat it clean every time so why are you even saying it beats all non kick mids/highs? EVERY character Ive looked into has a move or 2 that "should" just get GI'd... Like I said the smarter you play against him the smarter hes going to have to play... against a sophie player 90% of your BT setups on block you just have to block or GI if the sophie player will just 6B like a robot

Also bitching about things that make "makes things magically miss him and whiff constantly." why are you running into them after you see them a few times? if its just making move A miss consistently then find out what move B is to stop him

Oh and whats this backstepping TC mid? I want to know

Also his 4A+K backwards evade is badass so stop saying his movements suck

About the Anti Ivy Im pretty sure you can not only shake the SE UB but the 2nd hit is high so you should be able to duck out and punish her... Ivy is far from top tier when you know how to cater to the matchup but ALOT like voldo she has different stances you need to treat differently and the transitions that lead between them are unknown to most players. So when you dont take your ideal options and cant shift gears as she shifts between stances your not going to play her optimally and the matchup will seem harder to play then it really is

Oh and Dino you need to play taki vs hilde a bit before you start saying shes not top tier... I think playing a character who can whiff punish her ranged stuff is skewing your perspective
 
IMO, Voldo is top-tier. I think that Hilde and Algol is better, but other from them I think there is noone superior (maybe on par though) to Voldo.

He rapes soul gauge with moves like 3BB.
His 6:6B is a great punisher (and overall great move as well).
Great Throw Game. His BS A+G_B+G steps really well. Although not abusable, 236 A+G_B+G has its moments.
Great evasion/TC, like 4A+K, A+B (insane. Fast, safe and very damaging) and BS 1A. One of the most evasive characters in the game.
Great oki. 2A+B CR, 44, Mixup 1[K] and BS A+G_B+G when waking up and much more.
Good overall damage-output.
Great range. Can close in well with 66K. Can even, if you feel somewhat risky, mixup with BS Throws on block.
Overall solid RO.

Voldo has no real weakness from what I can see.
 
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