jf dash--powerful tool against shove-away players?

hotnikkelz

johNNy blaZe
jf dash--powerful tool against shove-away play

Well technically speaking there is no jf dash. His dash speed is constant, and it's a good one. I personally dubbed it JF dash only cuz of the timing required to perform it in some situations which i mentioned before. It's hella useful when he's at great adv.

In general dashing in your opponent when they're at disadv is quite fine, and useful in closing the gap to get some throws in. Nothing wrong with it really as long as you're comfortable in your defense. I do it a lot but i won't put it in the same category as jf dash as we so put it, cuz the entire context is different. Ppl will get confused.

TO sum it up, you're basically saying, doing intelligent dashing on the opponent when they're at disadv is a viable strategy, and i agree totally.
 

Haeven

[09] Warrior
jf dash--powerful tool against shove-away play

Alright it seems like dash speeds changed because of character movement and certain animations. So it isn't a jf dash. We can call it post-block dashing xD.
 

hotnikkelz

johNNy blaZe
jf dash--powerful tool against shove-away play

no...we will call it jf dash cuz I'm the one who pioneered it and i patented it :p so yeah it'll be jf dash until i decide to change it heh heh.
 

LAU

[09] Warrior
jf dash--powerful tool against shove-away play

yeah....

like hotnikkelz said.. he was the one who first found this...
and really it's only called jf dash really because of certain scenarios with Rock only moves....

-LAU
 

Haeven

[09] Warrior
jf dash--powerful tool against shove-away play

oh we can call it whatever you want; that's alright. I just thought we should think up another name since you said it isn't really a jf dash. xD And I already know that someone else has already discovered the jf dash. Not trying to claim credit/recognition at all. I only posted this strategy to see if I can help people play Rock better.

But I'm glad how this thread has turned out. The jf dash post block strategy is definitely out in the open (wasn't discussed before on boards as far as I've searched) and can be used by many Rocks everywhere. Hopefully we can find enough tools to get Rock to low-mid tier xD.
 

hotnikkelz

johNNy blaZe
jf dash--powerful tool against shove-away play

imo he's already in lower mid tier....but that's just me though :)
 

D.I.N.O

[11] Champion
jf dash--powerful tool against shove-away play

I believe his dash ability has to do with his Throws recovering faster than normal characters. I can't say for sure, but it does feel like Rock covers more ground with a post-throw dash. And it does feel like the 6 Dash has to be time. There is a 6 dash where he dashes but takes time to execute it. Then I think there is the dash you guys are talking about where he almost teleports like he did a SFIV 66 Dash.

Anyways yes, Rock needs this.
 

Zyrusticae

[09] Warrior
jf dash--powerful tool against shove-away play

After testing this, and then comparing it with other characters, I believe it is a deliberate design choice and entirely unique to Rock.

So, not only does he have one of the fastest dashes in the entire game (despite being so darned huge and heavy), he can use this to stay on top of an opponent pretty much all the time. Very nice.
 

Haeven

[09] Warrior
jf dash--powerful tool against shove-away play

After testing this, and then comparing it with other characters, I believe it is a deliberate design choice and entirely unique to Rock.

So, not only does he have one of the fastest dashes in the entire game (despite being so darned huge and heavy), he can use this to stay on top of an opponent pretty much all the time. Very nice.

He could be so fast due to his lack of clothing to weigh him down and adding ...drag :D.

I've never seen Rock use jfdash right after blocking in videos yet. This strategy is probably something new. I think it would be nice to see this in action in competitive matches to check how useful it can really be. It may have been used a few times before but it'll be more interesting to see it in action much more often in different scenarios.

I'm happy with the comments being posted here; thank you Dino and Zyr. Yes, to me Rock does seem like he almost teleports and can be used to keep up the pressure in a scary way.

Reply to hotnikkelz: I'm very happy that the teir list isn't set in stone even after about a year of game play (eg. some ppl think Rock is bottom and others may disagree). I love this game.
 

Haeven

[09] Warrior
jf dash--powerful tool against shove-away play

Alright everyone, take a look here :D. Pay attention to the jf dash after block technique used at 0:26. After blocking Astaroth's AB, Rock dashes forward to close the gap very quickly.


I don't know if Rock's dash is faster if you use it after a block but it kinda looks that way in this vid xD.

Rock player also used post block dashing at 0:33 but that wasn't timed as well. But still, it was effective.
 

Nukleurfire

[09] Warrior
jf dash--powerful tool against shove-away play

Alright everyone, take a look here :D. Pay attention to the jf dash after block technique used at 0:26. After blocking Astaroth's AB, Rock dashes forward to close the gap very quickly.


I don't know if Rock's dash is faster if you use it after a block but it kinda looks that way in this vid xD.

Rock player also used post block dashing at 0:33 but that wasn't timed as well. But still, it was effective.

What what what.


No. Hax. That's amazing. I thought Jf dash as just what I did post knockdown to get crouch grab techtrap, but that's
omg yes!! :D post block teleport dashing 0:26 and 0:33! :D :D :D

Go rock!
 

LAU

[09] Warrior
jf dash--powerful tool against shove-away play

Alright everyone, take a look here :D. Pay attention to the jf dash after block technique used at 0:26. After blocking Astaroth's AB, Rock dashes forward to close the gap very quickly.


I don't know if Rock's dash is faster if you use it after a block but it kinda looks that way in this vid xD.

Rock player also used post block dashing at 0:33 but that wasn't timed as well. But still, it was effective.

ok that dash does look ridiculously fast....

you might actually be onto something here.

going into practice mode to try it out with rock and other characters

-LAU
_________________________________________
====== DOUBLE POST AUTO-MERGE ======
nope tried it with NM....

he looks just as fast

-LAU
 

Haeven

[09] Warrior
jf dash--powerful tool against shove-away play

HAHA Good job to the vid poster there and that Rock player. ^^ That was the dash I was talking about all along and how it seems to be extremely fast because of head movements or what not. Once we analyze videos, it becomes clearer whether it is an illusion or real. It's real :D! We are not 100% certain that jf dash post block is faster than normal dash. But, Hilde players now know that they may still be in trouble because that was very fast. Notice how the Rock player gained a nice lead against Astaroth near the beginning of the match by closing the distance while still keeping some frame advantage. :D

I was able to perform this dash sometimes in vs mode since it is best used after powerful attacks that knock you back nicely. But it was unable to use jfdash after block in practice mode. Probably because we do not have very strong attack options for the computer to do to us (haha I don't have a 2nd controller yet even). So it's up to you guys to verify my technique ;). I recommend verifying it with a buddy. Take turns using various moves that knock back very nicely instead of just 3B or BB xD and try post block jf dashing. Good luck :{D.

Edit (update):

Here's another character using dash after blocking :). Mitsurugi. Consider 2:14.


Shows that post-block jf dash may be very useful for characters other than rock. However, this particular example of post-block dashing is not as good as Rock's because it is slower and probably has shorter range. May the analysis continue! Good luck :{D!
 

microgamer

[10] Knight
jf dash--powerful tool against shove-away play

So other than dashing in after everything you block (which seems kinda ridiculous but necessary), what other kinds of things can you do to compensate for Rock's range game?
 

hotnikkelz

johNNy blaZe
jf dash--powerful tool against shove-away play

As i said before :) it's all entirely the same thing. TIMING is everything where his dashes are concerned. Albeit the situation in which he did it was pretty impressive.

Advantage frames is advantage after all. I'll explain....
The technique i advocated, was using it after throw breaks (much frame adv for Rock)
The technique Haeven advocates, is using it post block (much frame adv for Rock)
Both are similar in that regard.

In my 'version' it's easier cuz all that matters is u know the instant at which ROCK recovers from his throws to execute the jfdash. THat's something you can practice, and become second nature.

In Haeven's version, it's harder cuz you now have to anticipate/know the instant you're OUT of that BLOCKSTUN RECOVERY frames of EVERY ATTACK that potentially come your way, in order to execute the dash at that precise moment giving the effect shown. It isn't AS FAST as the vid shows (i've gotten it many times). I think that's cuz of youtube video framage gives that illusion. IN a 60 frames per second, it looks more...'realistic' video compression makes it look 'teleportish'
The dude has good reflexes...he recognised Asta's AB (a 2 hitter). And he was like yeah the B is coming, i'll get ready to jf dash right...here! and boom. That's one of the easier situations to do it though. Doing it vs randomly fast moves will be much harder.

I'm glad you made this topic Haeven ;)
Good to see that others expanding on these techniques.

microgamer:
I don't have a range problem with Rock. I think i misunderstand your objective.
 

microgamer

[10] Knight
jf dash--powerful tool against shove-away play

I guess what I'm asking is what other moves and attacks can you do when you're just outside of grab range, instead of continually trying to dash back into grab range?
 

hotnikkelz

johNNy blaZe
jf dash--powerful tool against shove-away play

Well thing is, he has a shitload of moves outside grab range, but there's no mixup potential really, so you either try to destroy their gauage, or get in to mix throws. There aren't much characters that have that mixup potential mind u.

I mean there is 1A and 2A+K to mix with your mids, and they're both safe....but they are both slow.
 

LAU

[09] Warrior
jf dash--powerful tool against shove-away play

micro:

rock is really all about throwing....

sure he can do stuff that's NOT throwing.. but it's like telling a Hilde player not to use her charge moves...

Rock's Throws is what makes him strong... it's possible to play him with his decent gauge game... and it's also possible to play a somewhat of a keep out spacing game... however.. it's not as effective compared to his grab stuff...

this is the same with Hilde.. she got lots of good pokes but she really doesn't excel in them... her strength lies in her charge moves...

-LAU
 

Nukleurfire

[09] Warrior
jf dash--powerful tool against shove-away play

micro:

rock is really all about throwing....

sure he can do stuff that's NOT throwing.. but it's like telling a Hilde player not to use her charge moves...

Rock's Throws is what makes him strong... it's possible to play him with his decent gauge game... and it's also possible to play a somewhat of a keep out spacing game... however.. it's not as effective compared to his grab stuff...

this is the same with Hilde.. she got lots of good pokes but she really doesn't excel in them... her strength lies in her charge moves...

-LAU

Hilde pokes>Rock everything
 

D_Matt_Ma

[10] Knight
jf dash--powerful tool against shove-away play

Hilde pokes>Rock everything

I will be happy to eat half life damage worth of pokes in return for putting Hilde on Wake-up.

Rock = Throw. Even moreso than Astaroth. Rock's throw range is flat out insane. It's one of the reasons why Namco giving Rock an Air throw would be... WOW.