Kilik Matchup Thread: Finalized

Something-Unique

Something-Unique

[10] Knight
Numbers such as 5.5/4.5 do not exist here because if the matchup is considered that small the end result is neglible. The number on the left is in favor of Kilik and the number on the right is in favor of the opposing character.

Final Revision: Authors - Something-Unique~Wing-Zero~ShadowFox

Kilik vs. Algol = 6:4
Kilik vs. Amy = 5:5
Kilik vs. Astaroth = 5:5
Kilik vs. Cassandra = 6:4
Kilik vs. Cervantes = 6:4
Kilik vs. Darth Vader = 5:5
Kilik vs. Hilde = 4:6
Kilik vs. Ivy = 5:5
Kilik vs. Lizardman = 5:5
Kilik vs. Maxi = 7:3
Kilik vs. Mitsurugi = 5:5
Kilik vs. Nightmare = 5:5
Kilik vs. Raphael = 6:4
Kilik vs. Rock = 7:3 or 6:4
Kilik vs. Seong Mi-Na = 6:4
Kilik vs. Setsuka = 5:5
Kilik vs. Siegfried = 6:4
Kilik vs. Sophitia = 6:4
Kilik vs. Taki = 7:3
Kilik vs. Talim = 7:3
Kilik vs. The Apprentice = 6:4
Kilik vs. Tira = 6:4
Kilik vs. Voldo = 6:4
Kilik vs. Xianghua = 6:4
Kilik vs. Yoda = 7:3
Kilik vs. Yoshimitsu = 5:5
Kilik vs. Yun-Seong = 5:5
Kilik vs. Zasalamel = 6:4
 
Algol: 6/4
Amy: 5/5
Appr: 6/4
Asta: 5/5
Cass: 6/4
Cerv: 6/4
Hilde:4/6
Ivy: 4/6
Kilik: lol I wonder?
Liz: 6/4
Maxi: 7/3
Mina: 6/4
Mitsu: 6/4
Night:5/5
Raph: 6/4
Rock: 6/4
Sets: 5/5
Sieg: 6/4
Soph: 5/5
Taki: 7/3 Actually 6.5/3.5
Talim: 6/4
Tira: ...??
Vader: 6/4
Voldo: 5/5
Xiang: 5/5 I still think this could be 4.5/5.5
Yoda: 7/3
Yoshi: 6/4
Yun: 6/4
Zas: ...??

There are the matchups from the older all-encompassing matchups thread. Posting for comparison if any of the matchups changed.
 
Yeah, I know. :) I was including it for comparative reasons in case people were curious about what had changed.
 
vs Amy I believe it would be 6/4 for Kilik because he has such range advantage ; he can just keep away prevent amy from being able to apply any mixups on him. Asura isn't that risky either, her main high is 6BB (15dmg) and her kicks are weak.

Sure once in range Amy can pitbull Kilik but hey just one Asura and he's back in the game (and Amy is off him). Kilik can then continue to apply his keepaway game. 1B, WS B, you name it ^^

I won't comment on the other matchups (even though equal ground vs mina/rock WTF?)
 
I will give a detailed analysis on some matchups tommorow starting with the ones u guys are curious about.

Tresto:

The idea is to comment and debate the macthups. Please do!

Generally I feel the list is breaching on being completely accurate based off these things.

Over 6000 Matches online playing people such as RTD, Oofmatic, Bentleet, KrayzieCD etc. All people who believe in online, have history offline, play offline, and can correctly judge matches without bias just to name some.

I have 10 tournaments currently under my belt so far since my offline debut in SCIV.

Something-Unique: (Tournament Record)

Bone (May 2009) 9th
Koga (May 2009) 4th
Chicago (May 2009) 2nd
Chicago Regional (May 2009) 2nd
World Cyber Games (April 2009) 4th
Koga (April 2009) 4th
Koga (March 2009) 2nd
NEC9 (December 2008) 9th
Koga (November 2008) 4th
NY Play-N-Trade (November 2008) 1st

Ratio - 1st (1) 2nd (3) 4th (4) 9th (2)

Something-Unique: (Money Match Record)

19-2 against big names such as Thugish-Pond, Vicious Suicide, KDZ, Ramon, BigBoi just to name some.

My weakest outing has been my last two tournaments because my PS3 has been broken for about 3-months now.

I have played a ridiculous amount of casuals offline vs. a multitude of players such as Oofmatic, Woahhzz, etc. just to name some.

That's just to give some insight into my background.

As previously posted above I will give a better analysis on matchups tomorrow. Please list anymore matchups that u are curious about.
 
Well, thats quite a list of accomplishments. I am truly impressed. The few times I've gotten to play any of those people you have listed they've all pretty much dominated me. So I will respect what you have to say on Kilik matchups but I'm confused. How can he be so dominant over players such as Taki and Maxi and be even with the above mentioned characters? I've never really played a high level Kilik to play against so I won't really form any opinions until I've seen what you have to say. "ppreciate it.
 
S-U, it's like you're trying to apply for a job with that 'resume' lol.

Your list looks pretty good, although the Ivy one looks questionable. That matchup has always felt pretty even to me. I also thiink Kilik has an edge over The Apprentice. At least 6-4. Kilik has all the right tools to give him a hard time. Asura takes care of most of his good moves, and his anti asura options aren't that great and can be easily dealt with by using wr B. Also Kilik has much better mixup options post force break than the Apprentice does.

And 5/5 vs Asta? hmm I've always felt Kilik had to put in extra caution and effort with that fight. I think it should be 4/6.
 
Hey Something-Unique. I'm kind of surprised of that "list of accomplishments" post. Why would you write that, don't you feel people will consider your opinion otherwise ? It's cool I'm sure most people here know you're a good Kilik.

Anyway I agree on most of the matchups, except for Ivy (but it's more a general feeling so I'll let other people say stuff about that one), Amy (my main), Rock and Mina.

Amy vs Kilik : I always felt that Kilik has the edge because of his range + asura + evade stuff. I'm not talking about a decisive 7:3, just a slight 6:4. Amy can definitely win the match, but she'll have to work harder for it than Kilik.

This is from knowing how to play a basic Kilik myself, fights vs a few high level Kilik players in FR community, and countless online people from when I still played online.

About Mina at Rock, I don't actually know the matchup well, but it seems crazy to me that these low-tier characters would be on equal ground with strong Kilik. Mina is like a weaker Kilik to me (or Kilik a stronger Mina since he came after her in the series), and Rock is so hopeless you can just poke him to death all he can do are throws and slow moves.
 
I actually think its mainly because he doesn't play against much Mina/Rock?

Although frankly speaking, Mina and Rock both have sufficient anti-Asura tools to not have to worry about it much and play decently outside of midrange, which is where I feel Kilik starts to get uncomfortable.
 
Lols at the resume comment! Here is this matchup first.

Kilik vs. Ivy:

Beats him at Far-Range:

WP 6B+K/6B+K2/6B+K8: is a phenomenal tool against Kilik and is the reason she out-zones Kilik at far range. His 4B which is his furthest hitting move from far range can’t punish and misses her at roughly tip range. GI’ing or Asura attempts from that range is useless because your to far away. She needs nothing else because this move squashes everything as well as on whiff the recovery is much faster than other long range moves.

Beats him at Mid-Range:

SW 9B: This is without question the best move she has against Kilik. While this move is -17-Frames unlike other characters such as Siegfried where he can punish with 3B Kilik can only punish with aB for 24-Damage depending on the range. Therefore it can be abused against him enhanced by the fact that it’s i13-Frames making it faster and better than Kilik’s entire moveset. 9B, 214K is guaranteed on CH for 59-Damage and gives oki creating a number of problems for him. Also for some strange reason Kilik can’t really step this move at all making that choice risky as well.

WP 3A: This move is another problem for Kilik because it keeps him in a straight line by negating step. The same can be said for most characters but Kilik can only punish with aB for 24-Damage which again is dependent on the range. WP 3A B+K 236BB is guaranteed on CH for 53-Damage.

SW iCS: (Fast Forward to 7:36 - 7:42) (Fast Forward to 7:36-7:42) Need I say more at the ridiculous throw range. There are other videos such as Malek (Ivy) vs. Hayate (Kilik) showing off that range but I thought the above videos shows it best (plus its linkrkc as I think Malek is not a comparable Ivy).

Beats him at Close-Range:

This is the most comfortable range to fight Ivy at IMO. Even so her SW stance is much quicker all around than any option Kilik can throw at her plus the added bonus of her deadly throw mixup still being efficient here. Generally Kilik is at his weakest in close range as well and nothing changes here.

General Notes:

Kilik is exceptional at mid-range and far-range so when u can take that away he has problems which is why short range characters have to stay on him. Step A+B, 66B, 66B (80-Damage) applications are less useful in this matchup because of the inability for Kilik to step Ivy properly. His iFotd (80-Damage) is good and works but Ivy’s throw game is better and enhanced because she beats him at everything else. WSB which is golden at mid-range is 21-Frames +5-Frames for duck and execution making it i26-Frames being to slow for both WP 3A and SW 9B. This leaves him with pokes and Asura which is a counter and can never be the defining factor. This is why Ivy is so strong against Kilik.

To sum things up Ivy beats Kilik at every range; negates his stepping ability; her throws alone can keep up damage wise with Asura; and SW 9B is too good vs. Kilik; Not being able to dictate the matchup in anyway and being forced into your weakest range to be effective is a double negative.

Mina/Rock/Amy coming up next! Please comment on the Ivy matchup if u still feel not sure.
 
I believe Hilde vs. Kilik should be 6/4 Hilde's favor.

I still don't believe that Ivy vs. Kilik is 7/3 Ivy's favor; if anything, it should be 6/4.

I definitely don't believe that X vs Kilik is in her favor; it's 5/5.
 
Kilik vs. Hilde:

Things to understand:

1. Hilde has a pathetic damage output outside of her charges.
2. Because of the above she can’t punish outside of -20-Frames standing and -19-Frames crouching in a threatening manner.
3. If she does punish you have to pay attention to what move she punished with so you can be aware of what charge was reset.
4. Hilde is most effective as a step and whiff punisher (obvious I know but just pointing it out).
5. Her best tools are C3 A and FC C2B. There are ways to play around eliminating C3 A and opens up room to make Hilde more of a 1-Dimensional character. FC C2B on the other hand is a golden tool that people just have to deal with. There is no getting around it (thinks about throw get’s ducked; u get the picture).

With all the above being said Kilik has the tools to make this matchup even. I would even say it would be in his favor but Hilde’s ability to end the match with one hit makes her impossible to have a bad matchup outside of people like Vader, Yoda, and possibly Astaroth.

Proper turtling and simple pokes while landing one or two heavy hitters a round causes Hilde to be unable to keep up with Kilik damage wise (just watch for the C3A resets and be cautious of FC C2B). Restrict the entire movelist to cater towards what works against her very well.

Ex: This is what I use in general against Hilde unless that particular Hilde has habits that open up room for other moves.

Asura Dance (JF) - I must stress being able to pull this off is a huge bonus in this matchup. 80-Damage is nothing to laugh at against Hilde because every attempt counts and the faster and easier you beat her the better. This is the main reason I learned the JF. The extra 11-Damage helps and if the third hit is blocked because it was mistimed he is safe from C3B at -17-Frames as opposed to the regular version.

A+B - Honestly I don’t use this move to much in the matchup because I can see the charges and feel there is no need to step. However this move yields similiar results as Asura Dance as Hilde is extremely steppable your left/her right outside of C3A (which is why people need to pay attention to when Hilde uses any A notation). Again landing 80-Damage against Hilde is nothing to laugh at with the follow up 66B, 66B.

iFotd - This needs no explanation but whats worth noting is that its convenient for Kilik to have this throw as an A+G throw allowing for some conditioning of resetting Hilde’s A charges upon escape attempt. The 80-Damage again is another bonus as well as the more preferable ring-out opportunities from either 3kB or Asura Dance (whichever one is better for the situation since Asura Dance can be air controlled to the opponents right).

WSB - I use rarely but it provides me with a solid mid option with the added bonus of being immune to Hilde’s counter from C3A. Other reason is to just mix things up in combination with some lows.

2A - Safe and tracks both directions preventing Hilde’s golden step. Need I say more.

1/3A+B - Safe (against Hilde in a non-threatening manner) and tracks both directions. Resets charges again allowing for conditioning allowing room for semi pressure. This is Golden against Hilde.

2K - Fast poking low. No description needed besides another poking low that compliments his heavy hitters.

I can’t stress how little Hilde can do anything when u give her almost no room to land her charges. She can’t keep up damage wise and will have to resort to basic throws which reset her charges also. Kilik’s throw game is better; does more damage overall, and has great anti-step tools that works wonders against Hilde. Proper turtling and poking make this match better for Kilik. However a ducked throw followed up by FC C2B will always be a problem or just generally getting caught doing something (it happens but Hilde makes you cry for it).

(Mostly showing how things are kept simple) (no JF's etc in this one)

and here goes

(This video im kinda sloppy in since my PS3 has been broken for so long with messed up notations etc.) (The main point though is this is what happens when things are not kept simple).

Nice example!
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Update!
 
once again... tresto doesn't know anything about Rock (or Mina)....but I'll start with Rock...

I dunno what kilik have that particularly works well against rock (and not asta).. but there are certain rock strategies that works well against kilik that can't really be applied to other characters.

I don't wanna go as far as saying rock has a clear advantage.. but i won't be surprised if he does...

but I do know for certain tresto doesn't know shit about Rock. and when he says he's hopeless and you can just poke him to death .... especially in a kilik forum.... it really shows how much he knows about the game.....

-LAU
 
Lau:

I understand u have issues with such and such individual. Please don't derail the thread. The objective is to provide a list get some form of discussion. Respond appropriately like I am with detailed info on Kilik vs. Ivy, Kilik vs. Hilde etc. just like everyone asked. I don't mind. Then compare my list with respective Kilik players like Wing_Zero and Hayate and consider rational people like Oof. The list will be done in no time and then we as the community can provide that info to Jaxel in one thread or something and breakdown discrepancies.

Moving along:

Kilik vs. Seong Mi-na:

There is no advantage or disadvantage for either from far-range except that she does more consistent soul Gauge damage from that distance. Mid-range both are somewhat even and if one is better than the other there is nothing major to give an advantage. In close-range Kilik has better tools. The problem here is that most people know Seong Mi-na sucks but most people don’t realize Kilik vs. Seong Mi-na is a matchup in which they cancel out a lot of each others tools. For example Kilik vs. Hilde is a completely different dynamic than Seong Mi-na vs. Hilde (meaning they perform different vs. other characters and Kilik is better off but in this particular matchup there is no major advantage). The only advantage in this matchup is that Kilik performs better than Mi-na does close-range because of tools like Asura Dance and iFotd but for the most part she is on even ground. This matchup would be more like 5.5/4.5 but because the advantage is negligible its omitted in favor of a 5/5.

Side Update:

Apprentice has been changed back from a 5/5 to a 6/4 in favor of Kilik. The reason is because I am inclined to agree with Oof here based on past matches and Oof equals Star Wars so that’s another reason as well.
 
Explain the Kilik:Taki matchup to me. I don't see that being 7:3 when Taki's basic pokes (3KK and 22A) are un-punishable, beat Asura, and lead to 60+ damage combos on CH.
 
Taki is extremely restricted in how she can attack Kilik (3KK and 22A are pretty much what she's reduced to, imo); SU could tell you a little better than I can. I'm feeling oh so lazy right now lol

SU - I think Hilde would be 5/5 except for the fact that she has one hit kills; this is my reasoning for Hilde vs. Kilik being 6/4.
 
Update

Revisions made to the list.

Kilik vs. Xianghua (changed to 5/5 from a 4/6)

Kilik vs. Raphael (changed to 6/4 from a 5/5)

Kilik vs. Apprentice (changed to 6/4 from a 5/5)

If there is anyone who feels something is incorrect please ask and I will respond the best I can. I'm trying to do the rest at the same time. So far I have Amy, Rock, Astaroth, and Taki left according to the thread. Unlike other threads i'm trying to give detailed explanations for those who need it so its more accurate so please ask.
 
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